Owners to NASCAR: Pick up the pace

ChexOrWrex said:
Thought about this a while ago. Most stick and ball sports have their venues in or near big populated cities.

How many NASCAR tracks are virtually in BFE? Too many people look at a map and dismiss traveling hours away for half a day event and then drive back.
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Why do you suppose tracks are in BFE? Maybe because people don't want to live next to a racetrack? Real estate. Racetracks go where the land is useless for anything else.
 
KTMLew01 said:
... What is this mythical "casual fan" you speak of?
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Casual fans fall in to two types.

First are those people that will watch anything sports-related, regardless of what it is. These guys were kings back when there were three broadcast networks and Wide World was showing cliff divers, log rolling, and Topo Gigio. The rise of cable sports networks and regional coverage pretty much killed this type of casual fan off. Instead of being stuck with the Lithuanian Bench Press quarterfinals, the fan now had options to watch the sports that interested him or her.

Second are those people who will watch 'major events' just because everyone else is. These are the people who don't know squat about football but host Super Bowl parties, go to the Kentucky Derby but never see a horse, or watch the Daytona 500 because a woman is on the pole. These are the casual fans that 'storylines' can attract. The problem is these folks are usually interested in the gimmick du jour and rarely become week-to-week fans of a sport.

EDIT: astonishingly, I spelled 'Topo Gigio' correctly on the first try.
 
gnomesayin said:
I'm sure many people in the industry are growing restless and uncomfortable with the signs of economic and viewership contraction. But there seem to be as many different contradictory desires for "changes" floating around as there are on a forum like this. More night races? Seriously? What night? The sport runs on TV money, and Saturday night races are a ratings disaster as compared to Sunday afternoon. Maybe they should try mid-week, but that is a real shot in the dark.
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I'm all for weeknight races. Just make sure they're at tracks that are worth a damn.

These night races at the brobs are just boring,.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Why do you suppose tracks are in BFE? Maybe because people don't want to live next to a racetrack? Real estate. Racetracks go where the land is useless for anything else.
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They also go where the land is cheapest because they don't usually force the local taxpayers to cover their constuction costs. Understandable, since they're only used a few times a year. Those are a couple more reasons why comparing racetracks to other sports facilies usually breaks down.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
He wasn't winning every week; he wasn't even winning half. Despite what everyone says about Harvick this year, he isn't winning half the races either.
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To be fair, between 2006 and 2010, he won a full season worth of races.

Put that in perspective, in 5 seasons JJ won 83% of Harvick’s entire number of wins in 17 seasons.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Cuz him winning 5 championships in a row with no direct rival is one contributing factor to people turning the TV off.
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I enjoyed Johnson vs Harvick in 06/08 then Johnson vs Gordon in 07, Johnson vs Martin in 09, Johnson vs (for a little while) Montoya then Johnson vs Hamlin in 10. That's just me though, and it does seem to be during this reign people shut the TV off, stopped going to the track and never came back.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I do wonder why more tracks are not open midweek races. With the majority of revenue coming from TV you'd think they'd be willing to take a chance somewhere. But, that is part of the problem - too many different stakeholders. No doubt TV would want to ship a terribly-performing Saturday night (a generally awful night for TV) to say, Wednesday night.
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This might work as long as it is more of a novelty, only one race a year. If it is going to be a novelty, let's have a race on a track that is not currently on the circuit, maybe Nashville or Road America. The trucks do it now at Eldora, albeit on a much smaller scale than cup. But fans do plan accordingly and there is no shortage of campers. I think for the TV deal to pan out it is going to need to be during the summer.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Casual fans fall in to two types.

First are those people that will watch anything sports-related, regardless of what it is. These guys were kings back when there were three broadcast networks and Wide World was showing cliff divers, log rolling, and Topo Gigio. The rise of cable sports networks and regional coverage pretty much killed this type of casual fan off. Instead of being stuck with the Lithuanian Bench Press quarterfinals, the fan now had options to watch the sports that interested him or her.

Second are those people who will watch 'major events' just because everyone else is. These are the people who don't know squat about football but host Super Bowl parties, go to the Kentucky Derby but never see a horse, or watch the Daytona 500 because a woman is on the pole. These are the casual fans that 'storylines' can attract. The problem is these folks are usually interested in the gimmick du jour and rarely become week-to-week fans of a sport.

EDIT: astonishingly, I spelled 'Topo Gigio' correctly on the first try.
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Good point. Tiger Woods lately illustrated that point. Nascar Daytona isn't that important. Even the Indy 500 doesn't do that anymore. Times change. The fickle finger of popularity.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Thought about this a while ago. Most stick and ball sports have their venues in or near big populated cities.

How many NASCAR tracks are virtually in BFE? Too many people look at a map and dismiss traveling hours away for half a day event and then drive back.
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A lot of them are certainly out in the sticks, but I think there are enough where it could be viable. Las Vegas, Texas, Chicagoland, Kansas, Phoenix, Charlotte, Richmond sound like decent opportunities.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Casual fans fall in to two types.

First are those people that will watch anything sports-related, regardless of what it is. These guys were kings back when there were three broadcast networks and Wide World was showing cliff divers, log rolling, and Topo Gigio. The rise of cable sports networks and regional coverage pretty much killed this type of casual fan off. Instead of being stuck with the Lithuanian Bench Press quarterfinals, the fan now had options to watch the sports that interested him or her.

Second are those people who will watch 'major events' just because everyone else is. These are the people who don't know squat about football but host Super Bowl parties, go to the Kentucky Derby but never see a horse, or watch the Daytona 500 because a woman is on the pole. These are the casual fans that 'storylines' can attract. The problem is these folks are usually interested in the gimmick du jour and rarely become week-to-week fans of a sport.

EDIT: astonishingly, I spelled 'Topo Gigio' correctly on the first try.
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I hate these people. The worst sports fans you can have of any sport. It never made sense to me hosting a Super Bowl party but yet had to have a Field Goal explained to them. Ugh. The worst.
 
FLRacingFan said:
A lot of them are certainly out in the sticks, but I think there are enough where it could be viable. Las Vegas, Texas, Chicagoland, Kansas, Phoenix, Charlotte, Richmond sound like decent opportunities.
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Chicagoland used to be in the middle of nowhere but is being built up around it a bit. Kentucky is in the middle of nowhere, and I always thought Richmond was close to a neighborhood, never been there but my brother has attended two races there.
 
StandOnIt said:
Good point. Tiger Woods lately illustrated that point. Nascar Daytona isn't that important. Even the Indy 500 doesn't do that anymore. Times change. The fickle finger of popularity.
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I loved the ticker on Fox on Saturday telling us about the great round Tiger had. 7 under for the day, 8 under for the tournament, etc. They failed to menion he was 7 or 8 strokes behind the leader. That part of the 'storyline' isn't what the casual fan wants to hear.

Casual fans are the difference between the Indianapolis grandstands being packed in two weeks vs. nearly empty for the same cars and drivers this past weekend for the Indy Grand Prix. Casual fans are the reason the US Open is the only tournament Fox covers.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
A lot of them are certainly out in the sticks, but I think there are enough where it could be viable. Las Vegas, Texas, Chicagoland, Kansas, Phoenix, Charlotte, Richmond sound like decent opportunities.
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Sonoma and Hampton are within half an hour of SF and Atlanta respectively. I'd include Indianapolis but I think most of us agree it doesn't belong on the schedule regardless of day of week or time of day.
 
Snappy D said:
I hate these people. The worst sports fans you can have of any sport. It never made sense to me hosting a Super Bowl party but yet had to have a Field Goal explained to them. Ugh. The worst.
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Ah, but they outnumber dedicated fans and are easily attracted to The Shiny Object of the Month. As such, TV loves 'em.

SQUIRREL!!
 
KTMLew01 said:
What is this mythical "casual fan" you speak of?
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Others have already explained well enough. It's a basic term. In a nutshell, they are the millions who were watching when NASCAR was cool and had more media exposure, and aren't now. They're the reason for the panic over 60% viewership declines over a dozen years. Did NASCAR turn off some hardcore racing fans with too many changes and gimmicks? Some, yes. They exist. My Dad used to attend several races a year and watched every single one, and now he's an occasional watcher and hasn't been to a race for a few years. Regardless, the large numbers of disappearing 'fans' were by and large casual fans with loose ties to the sport. That's why they were easy to break.
 
Maybe nascar could run a race at an oval going clockwise instead of counterclockwise. That would be neat to see
 
DIDIT said:
These two guys scare me with comments like

"The same people basically win every week, it gets boring"
"There needs to be similar equipment for everyone"
"There needs to be more night races"

I thought B France was out of touch with reality, but I am thinking not as much as these guys.
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Yeah, that’s terrible.
 
All this midweek racing talk stems from the truck race at Eldora. The point that everybody misses, is that the popularity of that race, is not because it's during the week. It is popular in spite of being in the middle of the week, because it's a DIRT track. It's interesting that most in the RTA were relatively happy until they found out NASCAR might be sold. It would appear that money is their main concern, and not NASCAR.
 
None of it matters unless there's a compelling rivalry among top tier competitors and teams. The sport is simply correcting back to fan numbers prior to the Jeff Gordon vs Dale Earnhardt rivalry that caused the sport to explode in terms of popularity and visibility. No way will they ever be able to bottle lightning like that again.
 
I am impressed by the depth and breadth of disdain - frankly, borders on hatred - by the membership here for the team owners and their association. They bear the highest risk of any sector of the industry. They make the smallest profit margins. They have a business model that is borderline viable at best. And because they love racing, they show up every week and allow the show to go on. Some of them don't manage to survive, and when that happens we heap them up with even more scorn. I don't get it. Why does the membership feel this way?
 
ChexOrWrex said:
IIRC they cannot legally do that with the Air Force Base next door.
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They have lights for the horse track, but not as many that would take to light the entire track, very interesting about the AFB being the reason, or could be .

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LewTheShoe said:
I am impressed by the depth and breadth of disdain - frankly, borders on hatred - by the membership here for the team owners and their association. They bear the highest risk of any sector of the industry. They make the smallest profit margins. They have a business model that is borderline viable at best. And because they love racing, they show up every week and allow the show to go on. Some of them don't manage to survive, and when that happens we heap them up with even more scorn. I don't get it. Why does the membership feel this way?
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did you just wake up after a long nap and smell the coffee? :D
 
LewTheShoe said:
I am impressed by the depth and breadth of disdain - frankly, borders on hatred - by the membership here for the team owners and their association. They bear the highest risk of any sector of the industry. They make the smallest profit margins. They have a business model that is borderline viable at best. And because they love racing, they show up every week and allow the show to go on. Some of them don't manage to survive, and when that happens we heap them up with even more scorn. I don't get it. Why does the membership feel this way?
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I dunno. The only owners I've felt contempt for were Bobby Ginn and Red Bull. Ginn struck me as not knowing what he was doing, and not being interested in racing as much as in making a quick buck off a trend he'd already missed. I had the impression Red Bull wanted everyone to roll over and show their bellies because the company deigned to bring its F1 experience to lowly taxi cabs.

Just one idjit's opinions.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Sonoma and Hampton are within half an hour of SF and Atlanta respectively. I'd include Indianapolis but I think most of us agree it doesn't belong on the schedule regardless of day of week or time of day.
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Forgot about Indianapolis. Would be another opportunity but they don't have lights.

I went to AMS back in 2015 but I really have no idea where I was in relation to actual Atlanta. I can't imagine it was too far though.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I dunno. The only owners I've felt contempt for were Bobby Ginn and Red Bull. Ginn struck me as not knowing what he was doing, and not being interested in racing as much as in making a quick buck off a trend he'd already missed. I had the impression Red Bull wanted everyone to roll over and show their bellies because the company deigned to bring its F1 experience to lowly taxi cabs.

Just one idjit's opinions.
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that is kinda funny, I thought Red Bull didn't bring enough, got their butts whooped, and they were another indicator of how tough it was to succeed playing with the big boys
 
Regardless of the details in the article, the general message is correct. Nascar as an organization is completely clueless and currently on a path that will end in death.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Forgot about Indianapolis. Would be another opportunity but they don't have lights.

I went to AMS back in 2015 but I really have no idea where I was in relation to actual Atlanta. I can't imagine it was too far though.
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AMS is located in Hampton GA, which is a suburb of Atlanta, it is 28 miles south of Downtown Atlanta.
 
Why mid week though? I’d be cool with Friday night races, but between tram rides and traffic getting to the track, a mid week race sounds like a pain in the ass.

If you wanna get more fans, figure out a car that can race on street circuits
 
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