Paul, New Signature

Originally posted by paul
Well, I'm not gonna make up a lie for the sake of PC.

I know it's politically incorrect to think the confederate flag should be forgotten, but we already went over that.
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Yes we did didn't we. And the discussion continues.

A news article in the January 21, 2003, News and Observer of Raleigh, NC where Democratic Presidential hopefull U.S. Senator John Edwards (NC) is quoted; "the Confederate flag ought not to fly anywhere on the state capitol grounds here" His comment was made while giving a speech in Columbia, SC.

Interesting opinion by Senator Edwards. One, in my opinion, that should rest squarely on the shoulders of the voters and representatives of the state of South Carolina or any other state choosing to use the Confederate flag or any other symbol they choose.

EDIT : And then I read the post by Paul on the NASCAR thread. Oh well, no controversy over "politically correct" signatures, good people , no hassles, but there will be anyway, whether Paul or anyone else picks a signature.



Paul, use whatever signature you choose. You never had a problem in the past offering an opinion, so why not pick a topic of deep and sincere interest or concern to you and offer it here. Not everyone will agree with it but from what I've read, you have big shoulders and can handle the controversy. Guns, abortion, freedom of speech, tree huggers, Republican, Democrat, Bin laden, Bush, Clinton, what is left ?? Oh yea, Earnhardt, Gordon, Stewart, Wallace, and don't forget "Buckshot". :)
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan
Now, MY return question is this:  Why is it such a thorn in your side?  If you are genuinely curious and want to know the answers to things out of a real interest, that's one thing.  If all you are after is more fuel to an already healthy fire, then you're far from the first.  Either way, I'm more than happy to try and help you learn.  When it gets to the point of sticks and stones, or finger-pointing and "Hey, look at the backward hillbilly", I'm out.  Been too many generations of THAT already.
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Never said anything about backwards hillbillys.

When the only responses I get to a pressing political question are answers like, "You wouldn't understand anyway, you live in the North" or, "It stands for history" from the majority of the people that want to partake in this particular debate, of course it's going to look like it's a thorn in my side. You're really the only person that offers anything remotely coming close to an attempt at discourse on it.

I understand that the perpetuation of the "You wouldn't understand, and I don't have to explain it" attitude is vital to the plight of most minorities when they start demanding more rights than everyone else, but they start to lose credibility to the rest of the planet when they refuse to say anything sensible.

It all goes back to yet another group of people feeling they're entitled to more than everyone else. That that group's freedom of expression far outweighs everyone else's. That that group of minorities are being persecuted when the crosshairs of America bear down on them, that how dare everyone try and tell them what to do. Who cares about everyone else's feelings, I mean it's all about them right?

I said it a few months ago, I'll leave the flag waving and symbols and political marches to all the poor, slighted minority groups in NYC. The line between those groups and certain groups in the South is becoming very thin. I'm sure there will be political activists and civil rights leaders down there helping the cause, so that people have the right to fly those flags.

You agreed with that "New Bill Of Rights" post, and even printed it out. Does it only work one way? Is it only ok for your counter opinion to be brought down against a certain group, but when it's turned around and the ire of American is looking at you it's suddenly about attempts to stifle your freedom of expression. How does that work...

Caveat, the use of the word "you" throughout this post is not meant as you TWF, it's used as a general term.
 
Whizzer, TWF and I agree on all things Earnhardt so there's no fun in that. :)

And I think I'm one of the only people in the world that pulled for Buckshot. :eek:
 
Sorry for the delayed response....I just got a call from the FBI, which is never good news....

As to that Bill of Rights thing, my agreement with those sentiments is across the board. I too get frustrated with the "I deserve special treatment because..." attitudes. Do I feel that the Stars and Bars is a special case? Not really. It IS the only "alternative" flag in the nation's history, but I'm undecided as to what weight if any that may carry. In all honesty, I've never given the issue much serious thought.

My beef is with those who think that by seeing the flag, that automatically equates to whatever perception they have about it. That's not correct. I can usually figure out someone's reason for flying it within a few sentences of discussion. But not before. Also, with those who insist that slavery was the central issue of the Civil War. It was not. We have been led to think it was, as history is always written by the victors. Any semi-serious research into that era will uncover the central issues of the conflict. Slavery was an afterthought. I agree that it was an evil practice, but it was not the focal point of the Civil War.
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan
 My beef is with those who think that by seeing the flag, that automatically equates to whatever perception they have about it.  That's not correct.  
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Hmm, so the seer's perception of it is less valid than the displayer's?

Interesting. :)
 
Let us extrapolate.

If I shoot Paul for no real reason other than wanting him dead, that's Murder.

If I shoot Paul because he broke into my house wielding a shotgun and pointing it at me, that's self defense.

Same action...different intents.
 
However, you and I know very well (if not you more so, given your line of work), that the first example happens more often than the second.

And 99% of the time people use the second example as an excuse for their perpetration of the first.

Cowards.
 
We need a race to argue about...

I mean CAR race btw...

I stand by my statement. Judging someone's actions by one's own preconceived opinions is unfair. If you care, ask the person. If you don't, and then decide to go off and pronounce judgment on them based solely on your own notions, that's ignorant and unfair.

It would be the same as if I said that everyone from north of Virginia is an idiot, because all the people I have ever met from there ARE idiots. That is obviously not true. But if I TREATED someone like an idiot just because they are from, say, Pennsylvania would be acting on limited preconceived notions. Ring a bell?
 
That would be a true statement, if it had anything to do with what we're discussing.

The Confederate Flag is not a person, and people are judging the Flag...not the people that fly it.
 
Is that so? So all the racist comments are automatically out the window, as an inanimate object cannot possess racial opinions. All the dumb redneck hillbilly comments are gone, too, as an inanimate object cannot be dumb, redneck, OR hillbilly. Instead of intent, then, we'll discuss the object itself.

It is a quadralatteral piece of cloth, bearing an X shape bedazzled with stars, primarily with the colors red, blue and white. It was flown for a period of time by a rebel faction of the United States, and its image continues to stir controversy 140 years later.
 
Who's making racial statements and calling people redneck hillbillys?

What about the Swatstika? I can fly it all around my house and all I have to say is, "Uhm...to me that flag means...uhm...Irish Pride...yeah". And it's all ok?
 
Yer right...no one EVER connects racial ideaology with the Rebel flag. Silly me.

Fly whatever you like around your house...it doesn't impact me one iota. Hell, run around your neighborhood in a tutu and sing "Camptown Races" in Swahili for all I care.

I'm still confused on how you "judge" a flag. That is, without bringing intent into the discussion.
 
What if a bunch of Jewish people live around me. They don't have a right to not look at that painful reminder?

Of course people equate racial oppression with the flag, many people from the south adopted it under that ideology, but use the "It represents my history and heritage" as a cowardly copout.

Do some people fly it because it represents those things? Sure, but I doubt those are the vocal majority.
 
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