Phantom Debris Cautions

FenderBumper said:
I find it entirely feasible that nascar watched their biggest star throw an aggressive block at a RP track and hit the wall, losing his life due to defective / improperly mounted seat belts, and decide they need to throw more debris cautions for safety.
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That's one way to twist what I was saying but I guess I did invite it.

I'm simply using his situation as a timeline. There has undoubtedly been a focus on safety from that point forward that simply didn't exist to that exist prior.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
That's one way to twist what I was saying but I guess I did invite it.

I'm simply using his situation as a timeline. There has undoubtedly been a focus on safety from that point forward that simply didn't exist to that exist prior.
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I wasn't twisting anything. I can see a knee jerk reaction by nascar, but the real jump in debris cautions comes much later.
 
Fuel mileage races have been all but eliminated by these "phantom cautions". Isnt that what everyone wanted ???
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I honestly believe NASCAR has NEVER thrown a phantom debris caution... just paranoid butt hurt fans assuming things.
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Ehhhh. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but it does seem a bit odd that a lot (most?) of the times they don't show the debris, it just so happens that the caution was thrown during a long green flag run. That'd be a fun observation to make over a season; might come up with some interesting statistics.
 
DSquad48 said:
Ehhhh. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but it does seem a bit odd that a lot (most?) of the times they don't show the debris, it just so happens that the caution was thrown during a long green flag run. That'd be a fun observation to make over a season; might come up with some interesting statistics.
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The data is all on racing-reference as to when the caution was and what it was for. You should probably get on that and get back to us with colorful charts and graphs. We'll be waiting for you report. :D
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The data is all on racing-reference as to when the caution was and what it was for. You should probably get on that and get back to us with colorful charts and graphs. We'll be waiting for you report. :D
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Do they have how many laps of green-flag racing were run prior to each caution?
 
DSquad48 said:
Do they have how many laps of green-flag racing were run prior to each caution?
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Last weeks example.....

From last week.jpg
 
While looking at the different caution descriptions, I find it odd that some say "debris turn 1" or "debris on backstretch" etc. etc., while some just say "debris."

Nevermind, I'm blind o_O

Nope, actually that does happen.
 
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Now all they need to do is make a statistic that verifies if the debris was shown on TV or not :D I did notice that a lot of the lower amount of laps prior to them throwing the debris caution was during races where there were more accident, thus creating more debris. For example, the average # of laps run before a debris caution at Kansas was only 22.67, and there were 10 cautions for accident/oil, while the average # of laps run before a debris caution at Richmond was 86.67, and there were only 2 cautions that night for any wrecks or spins.

Of course, this doesn't really mean anything at all, given it doesn't show in comparison the number of "normal" caution laps, the ratio of debris cautions to "normal" cautions, etc. etc. That's above my pay grade, and I have actual statistics homework to do anyway ;)
 
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So there does seem to be somewhat of a correlation between how many laps were run prior to NASCAR throwing the debris caution and how many times these "mystery" cautions are shown on TV, but obviously you'd have to go through years of races before you could make any real conclusions.


dpkimmel2001 said:
Don't read too much into the debris not being show on the broadcast. They have a tough time even showing us the racing that's going on in front of them.
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Haha, oh I know! Just thought it'd be interesting to see.
 
When was the last fuel mileage race where several cars ran out trying to make it to the end. All the discussion about "phantom cautions" and no mention that these cautions have put a stop to the half throttle finishes where the best mileage wins. Seems to me that this year they always have a caution at just the right time to make sure everyone has the fuel to race to the finish.
 
Is this really controversial? The teams were openly talking about fake debris cautions on the radios before NASCAR told them to knock it off.
 
Kyle18fan said:
When was the last fuel mileage race where several cars ran out trying to make it to the end. All the discussion about "phantom cautions" and no mention that these cautions have put a stop to the half throttle finishes where the best mileage wins. Seems to me that this year they always have a caution at just the right time to make sure everyone has the fuel to race to the finish.
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Gee I wonder why that is......hmmmm???
 
sloggie said:
Is this really controversial? The teams were openly talking about fake debris cautions on the radios before NASCAR told them to knock it off.
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I once heard Mark Martin refer to them as "show" cautions.

But because it's virtually impossible to verify if there is actually debris on the track each and every time a debris caution is thrown, NASCAR denying that it's all about bunching up the cars to create an exciting finish will always remain plausible.
 
When they start throwing cautions to prevent Danica or Junior from going down a lap , I may start to believe folks who have likely never worked in Nascar and have likely never been to a race. Oh , and the TV networks ? They show whatever they damn well please .If they want to cut to Rusty Wallace while a truck is on track picking up debris , Nascar can't stop them.
 
ted@economy said:
When they start throwing cautions to prevent Danica or Junior from going down a lap , I may start to believe folks who have likely never worked in Nascar and have likely never been to a race. Oh , and the TV networks ? They show whatever they damn well please .If they want to cut to Rusty Wallace while a truck is on track picking up debris , Nascar can't stop them.
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Ok Ted..what we need is what Kyle18fan suggested.. debris boys..But now we need to modify their role a bit..in conjunction with them grabbing the debris and waving it, they need a helmet cam also to make sure they are picking up real debris and not just

grabbing some wayward bear bond in the infield or hot dog wrapper and waving it. So when the networks are missing the cautions, cutting to commercial breaks instead of showing the debris, and doing all kinds of wacky stuff detrimental to stock car racing,

we fans at home can have visual proof by logging on to the "Debris Boy" website. Then we will be free to argue about the size and kind of debris, weather they should have thrown a caution or not from the size and kind of the piece.
 
StandOnIt said:
Ok Ted..what we need is what Kyle18fan suggested.. debris boys..But now we need to modify their role a bit..in conjunction with them grabbing the debris and waving it, they need a helmet cam also to make sure they are picking up real debris and not just

grabbing some wayward bear bond in the infield or hot dog wrapper and waving it. So when the networks are missing the cautions, cutting to commercial breaks instead of showing the debris, and doing all kinds of wacky stuff detrimental to stock car racing,

we fans at home can have visual proof by logging on to the "Debris Boy" website. Then we will be free to argue about the size and kind of debris, weather they should have thrown a caution or not from the size and kind of the piece.
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Are you nuts ? Scantily clad 'debris girls' would be more likely to get the camera off of Rusty .:) But if you watch the cars running over the sheet metal , it often ends up off track , up in the stands , or in somebodys grill. I'd be happy to watch the debris girls till they find it .
 
oh OK " Debris Girls" sorta like a Miss Sprint Cup, a "Miss Debris" . It would be great if Nascar sniped the F1 girls, but it will never happen as long as sister France has her way about it. She makes the hooter girls cover up
 
StandOnIt said:
oh OK " Debris Girls" sorta like a Miss Sprint Cup, a "Miss Debris" . It would be great if Nascar sniped the F1 girls, but it will never happen as long as sister France has her way about it. She makes the hooter girls cover up
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I think you have hit on it right there . This Debris Caution brought to you by Hooters.
 
I'll never forget Michael Waltrip getting caught throwing a long round piece of foam padding from a roll bar out of the window (on the front stretch :D) because he needed a caution, they held him two laps I believe.
 
Johali said:
I'll never forget Michael Waltrip getting caught throwing a long round piece of foam padding from a roll bar out of the window (on the front stretch :D) because he needed a caution, they held him two laps I believe.
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I think he got that trick from Dale Sr. , You're not supposed to do that any more . It's not nice . Water bottles ,now , I'm fine with them.
 
ted@economy said:
Are you nuts ? Scantily clad 'debris girls' would be more likely to get the camera off of Rusty .:) But if you watch the cars running over the sheet metal , it often ends up off track , up in the stands , or in somebodys grill. I'd be happy to watch the debris girls till they find it .
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Thats what I am talking about.
 
FenderBumper said:
I find it entirely feasible that nascar watched their biggest star throw an aggressive block at a RP track and hit the wall, losing his life due to defective / improperly mounted seat belts, and decide they need to throw more debris cautions for safety.

nascar brought the debris suspicions upon themselves. It will take a few more years of doing the right thing to gain back some trust. Then again, there are those who insist nascar NEVER used cautions to make the races more exciting.
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That doesn't make any sense. Restarts are some of the most dangerous parts of a race. Cautions breed cautions, etc. How is throwing phantom debris cautions more safe?
 
A potatoe chip bag on the track can look like a piece of metal . After many serious accidents on the track , Nascar has made a conserted effort to err on the side of caution . Sometimes they look like fools if the debris is gone when the track workers get there or it turns out to be a harmless piece of foam . Looking like fools to a few internet cowboys is better than having a fan or a driver injured IMO. I've personally seen full cans of beer thrown at racecars on the track , I've seen cars taken out by debris puncturing their radiator , and I've seen fans hauled away on stretchers .Nascar doesn't have any business throwing fewer caution flags .
 
StandOnIt said:
Ok Ted..what we need is what Kyle18fan suggested.. debris boys..But now we need to modify their role a bit..in conjunction with them grabbing the debris and waving it, they need a helmet cam also to make sure they are picking up real debris and not just

grabbing some wayward bear bond in the infield or hot dog wrapper and waving it. So when the networks are missing the cautions, cutting to commercial breaks instead of showing the debris, and doing all kinds of wacky stuff detrimental to stock car racing,

we fans at home can have visual proof by logging on to the "Debris Boy" website. Then we will be free to argue about the size and kind of debris, weather they should have thrown a caution or not from the size and kind of the piece.
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Hope you are prepared to split the profits on this deal :D ........................ WOAH......................thats my idea !!!!!
 
Kyle18fan said:
Hope you are prepared to split the profits on this deal :D ........................ WOAH......................thats my idea !!!!!
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Sorry but your former post has been inexplicably deleted . In any event the original thought was never registered and it has evolved . Morphed , if you will, into something really big .
 
ted@economy said:
Sorry but your former post has been inexplicably deleted . In any event the original thought was never registered and it has evolved . Morphed , if you will, into something really big .
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Well heck, that always happens to me. should have learned after that Edison guy :D
 
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