R-F Experts Reveal... What Makes A Race Great vs. Good vs. Mediocre

LewTheShoe

LewTheShoe

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What is it that makes a good or great race, compared to another that's only mediocre or worse? Certainly, the answers are personal opinions and inherently subjective. I'm interested to hear YOUR opinions.

Let's start with some actual data, borrowed from the stellar work done every week by @ToyYoda. The collective opinion of us expert analysts here at R-F is that, circa mid-2022, the best NASCAR racing overwhelmingly occurs on the 1.5 to 2-mile fast intermediate tracks. After half a year of Next Gen racing...

ToyYoda said:
1. Charlotte (5/29): 9.60
2. Fontana (2/27): 8.94
3. Las Vegas (3/6): 8.88
4. Darlington (5/8): 8.82
5. COTA (3/27): 8.70
6. Kansas (5/15): 8.48
7. Richmond (4/3): 8.32
8. Dover (5/2): 8.29
9. Nashville (6/26): 7.96
10. Talladega (4/24): 7.95
11. Gateway (6/5): 7.78
12. Daytona (2/20): 7.68
13. Phoenix (3/13): 6.97
14. Sonoma (6/12): 6.85
15. Bristol Dirt (4/17): 6.60
16. Road America (7/3): 6.27
17. Atlanta (3/20): 5.58
18. Martinsville (4/9): 4.26
Click to expand...

The 1.5ers dominate the rankings, and it's not even close. These fast intermediate tracks produced five of the top six races (along with COTA, and let's be honest, the COTA rating got a boost from the last-lap crash 'em antics... because rubbin' is racin', amirite... :idunno:).

# Races​
R-F Expert Ratings
Avg. Rating​
1.5-2.0 Intermediate
6​
9.60, 8.94, 8.88, 8.82, 8.48, 7.96
8.78​
1.0 Mile to 1.25
3​
8.29, 7.78, 6.97
7.68​
Short Tracks
3​
8.32, 6.60, 4.26
6.39​
Road Courses
3​
8.70, 6.85, 6.27
7.27​
Plate Races
3​
7.95, 7.68, 5.58
7.07​
Total 2022 Y-T-D
18​
7.66​

Personally, I've always liked the 1.5ers and the roadies best. Especially fond of the mean, nasty 1.5ers (Darlington, Homestead) and the fast, smash-mouth road courses (Watkins Glen, Road America). It's taken *forever* for Charlotte to come good after the last repave, but man, what a fantastic race we got there in the Coke 600 World 600 last May. My #1 criteria for a race to thrill me and entertain me is that it be a stern test of driving skill, and these are the tracks that deliver that most frequently, in my R-F expert opinion.

What's your expert opinion on what criteria make a great race?
 
I’ll be simple, high stakes and lots of action. That Coke 600 was one of the best races in the sports history in my opinion, so much happened and the racing was unreal. Plus it’s a Crown Jewel.

It’s why WoO is so beloved, the action is incredible
 
-Tire wear, comers and goers
-Very few cautions with green flag stops, most races are at least 400 miles or at least 3 hours long. It should not be degraded by excessive resets
- It is almost impossibile to consider a race as a classic or great if it has late race cautions. GWCers suck.
- It should have some marathon qualities.
Needed Attrition: Not thinking of equipment, think of errors, bad or great strategies, pit stop errors etc.
-No last lap bump and runs.
- Passing is great stuff but it isnt an absolute measure. A good battle between two drivers with some respectful rubbing is better stuff. They can take it down to the final corner or one driver could simply wear the other one down over the last few laps. It is a great thing to watch.
 
No stages, no fake cautions, green flag pit stops, no flat-foot aero no passing, no fake GWC yellow to enhance the mediocre racing.
That would make for some great racing.
 
@Greg prefers no bump and runs. I usually agree with Greg on a lot of issues.
Bump and run on the last lap has always been a part of this sport, generating from short tracks all over the US. The bump and run we see today isn’t anywhere near the bump and run of the past. Now it’s just the frustration of two guys running bumper to bumper for endless laps because aero won’t allow a real , competition pass under long green flag runs.
I don’t mind a bump and run under past racing conditions but the circus racing that NASCAR has created over the past couple of decades isn’t the racing that long time fans appreciate or look forward to.
I prefer passing when aero-block isn’t a factor. I like to see drivers not lose half a lap on aero if they lift for a loose or tight corner. I prefer seeing guys not lose several car lengths if they lift for a second.
Sure, “cars on on the track making laps.” That doesn’t always equate to quality racing.
The Oprah Winfrey mode of providing a possible participation Championship for every driver that wins one race is a complete mockery of the sport.
I’d prefer NASCAR return to its roots.
 
What makes a great race? See below
1657461066426.png
 
Simply put, I enjoy watching a race where the driver is consistently challenged, the crew chiefs need to make the proper calls, pit crews must do their jobs and no BS calls by NASCAR.
 
1 key ingredient to make a race great for me is for it to include a chase down of the leader where you get an extended time period 50 laps 80 laps 100 laps of not being able to take your eyes off the screen, think 2018 Larson/KB at Chicagoland with a long green flag crescendo of navigating to that last lap moment of contact, or even Hamlin/Harvick at Richmond this year passing thru the field on newer tires trying to catch Truex in time.

There's probably hundreds of ways, that's just one I like to see.
 
StandOnIt said:
What makes a great race? See below
View attachment 63934
Click to expand...
Amen brother, preach it! I too thought that was a great race at Mid-Ohio. Two guys duking it out over many laps, on a very tricky low-grip circuit, very evenly matched. A supreme contest of skill with many opportunities to miss a corner, or miss a shift, or miss a braking point... and blow it all. Not to mention the David vs. Goliath aspect of it in terms of the limited resources of the 75 team compared to the 38 and 51 teams.

And yet, last Sunday a very comparable scenario played out at Road America between Tyler Reddick and Chase Elliott... and most R-F members panned that race and voted it to the bottom of the scale (ranked #16 of 18 races this year). So it's obvious those folks have very different criteria, or different opinions of whether the criteria were met..:idunno:
 
Marcingak said:
Well, we got one thing right. Restrictor plate races are the worst.
Click to expand...
Actually, the collective wisdom of R-F race ratings is that short tracks are the worst. Have a look at the data table in the OP. The table is kinda poorly designed - it's not in descending order - but short tracks average just 6.39 while plate races are 7.07 average.

AndyMarquisLive said:
The 600 was the definition of a great race.

Five hours and I could’ve watched for five more.
Click to expand...
What did you like about it, Andy, if you can recall specifics that would add a lot of insight.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Actually, the collective wisdom of R-F race ratings is that short tracks are the worst. Have a look at the data table in the OP. The table is kinda poorly designed - it's not in descending order - but short tracks average just 6.39 while plate races are 7.07 average.


What did you like about it, Andy, if you can recall specifics that would add a lot of insight.
Click to expand...
Dang, I missed that. I'm surprised short tracks are so low.
 
I don't think I can come up with a simple definition for a "good" race. I'll watch a race and when it's over I can tell you whether I liked it or not.

During the 550 "era" our friend @StandOnIt would often post statistics comparing overall passes, green flag passes, quality passes etc. to the years before which would almost always show an increase but that alone didn't make the racing good to me. Numbers can't determine if a race is good IMO.
Marcingak said:
I'm surprised short tracks are so low.
Click to expand...
I'm not. Phoenix showed that this car (with the current aero/hp configuration) isn't very good at flat tracks. I'm also not expecting much from New Hampshire next weekend, hopefully at least Bristol will be good.
 
donthaveanickname said:
I don't think I can come up with a simple definition for a "good" race. I'll watch a race and when it's over I can tell you whether I liked it or not.

During the 550 "era" our friend @StandOnIt would often post statistics comparing overall passes, green flag passes, quality passes etc. to the years before which would almost always show an increase but that alone didn't make the racing good to me. Numbers can't determine if a race is good IMO.

I'm not. Phoenix showed that this car (with the current aero/hp configuration) isn't very good at flat tracks. I'm also not expecting much from New Hampshire next weekend, hopefully at least Bristol will be good.
Click to expand...
Numbers are like adding ingredients to a cake. Chances are it's going to turn out to be good with the right ingredients. The rise in interest to the racing, and a new car that took it further than the old design is proof of that. I still watch the numbers most of the time.
It's funny now when some of the R-F experts don't think there is enough passing they complain loudly. Complete 360 degrees. lol.

Note. Lead changes are computed at the finish line, same for leaders

1657549417487.png


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2022 NASCAR Cup Series Summer Atlanta Motor Speedway Cumulative Race Report – Jayski's NASCAR Silly Season Site

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A great race is when the cars start. They try to get to the end as quickly as possible. And somebody wins. I have literally never seen a bad race IMO. Each one is organic--it's own thing. I have never sat back, and asked myself, "Was that good?" I am pretty sure that I have never rated a race below a 9.
 
I missed one:

# 4.----Red #9 1985-87 Thunderbird.

I'm really to the point rarely watch a whole race. Just lost interest in pavement racing. Don't care much for the Cup/Busch/Truck dirt racing either. Much rather watch road courses but the cars/drivers are so good now that's losing appeal also.

Just getting old & crabby...and get off my lawn!
 
Constant competition for the lead. What else is required?

Oh, hurt feelings are always a good ending too....
 
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