Race thread: 104th Indy 500

[gnomesayin]

Indycar needs shuffled restarts and GWC so so bad. It’s obvious why NASCAR has surpassed it so far

Good grief. NASCAR surpassed IndyCar in the 1990s and especially after The Split, back when the GWC was but a glimmer in Brian France's bloodshot eye.

The Indy 500.is doing fine and is the most prestigious auto race in the world.

 

[gnomesayin]

I thought I was tired of Quiet Track. This is beautiful.

 

[Hotrod]

Another Indy 500 in the books. it was really glorious and hit all my
entertainment check points.
I fall on the side of " I am glad they did not throw the red".
Carnage risk too high at a place like Indy. Everybody walked away
from their crashes for the day so why push that envelope? Plus it would
of been lengthy for wall repairs and who knows how the cars would respond
after sitting that long.

 

[Doc Austin]

​

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

Has anyone heard what happened to Marco? He was going backwards as soon as they took the green. Looks like the entire Andretti team came off the rails.

He stinks when the race starts, been that way for years now. Guy hasn't even had a podium finish since 2015.

 

[StandOnIt]

Interesting the second place car who was easily the fastest car, couldn't get within a block of the lead car or he would loose the front end.

 

[Kiante]

I know Alonso finished where he finished back of the field in 21st.

It goes to show you just cannot walk into IndyCar here with the amount of talent on the field and expect to be competitive. The only way I can see Alonso getting the Triple Crown done is by being a full-time driver in the series, obviously he cannot with signing to Renault for the next three years, but whatever he decides afterwards. I hope he makes a decision in wanting to be a full-time driver in IndyCar down the line.

 

[ChexOrWrex]

I don't think he did at the end. He had the one big run but I'm not sure there was another coming. He needed Sato to struggle in traffic and he didn't. Dixon appeared shocked that Sato could make it on fuel, they got overconfident.

Looks like Dixon’s team played not to lose, and everyone knows when you play prevent defense... you lose.

 

[Tony_K]

I didn't have a problem with a yellow ending the race. Looked like too much to do to get back to racing and there's a big chance of carnage with a lap or two shootout and I'm not a fan of that. Think NASCAR.

 

[Doc Austin]

Looks like Dixon’s team played not to lose, and everyone knows when you play prevent defense... you lose.

No attack, no chance.

 

[Nitro Dude]

I know Alonso finished where he finished back of the field in 21st.

It goes to show you just cannot walk into IndyCar here with the amount of talent on the field and expect to be competitive. The only way I can see Alonso getting the Triple Crown done is by being a full-time driver in the series, obviously he cannot with signing to Renault for the next three years, but whatever he decides afterwards. I hope he makes a decision in wanting to be a full-time driver in IndyCar down the line.

With the amount of speed, the turns, and how narrow the track is, plus how narrow pit road is makes IMS a really tough track to win at. The first time I rode down the back stretch in the tour van I couldn't believe just how narrow the track is. That is why I stand up for Danica when her haters try to discredit her driving ability at Indy. Rick Mears sure had that place figured out also. I can sit for hours and watch videos of Rick working his magic at Indy. A lot of young rookies think they have that track figured out and then she bites them on the as-s as we seen a few times yesterday.

 

[Turtle84]

Wow glad everyone walked away okay on this one, there were some absolutely brutal hits at abrupt angles. Thank you safety innovations.

When they green lighted Dixon to go after Sato, initially it looked like he was going to make quick work of him, but I guess he burned his tires off? No idea what happened there...but he couldn't close the gap after that. Bet he wishes they would have gone full bore the whole last run, than worry on fuel.

Has to be disappointing for Dixon, almost everything went his way in this race, had the car and crew to beat. Moved into 3rd place in all-time laps led in the Indy 500 passing Foyt and Mario, yet only has 1 to his credit, 3... 2nd places ending under caution in the Indy 500...feel a little bad for him. Had a wager on him to win at 5/1 too, but ah well that's the way it goes. Sato drove his tail off.

I was a little surprised that they didn't throw the red, even with precedent of ending under yellow. Could go either way on it, there was a driver laying on the track...

I don't think Dixon would have been able to get to him had it stayed green with the gap Sato built up, so fairness in that respect.

Overall, I thought this was a very interesting 500 how it developed over the entirety of the race.

 

[StandOnIt]

Scott Dixon ponders the ‘what ifs’ of red flag and fuel mileage at Indy 500

Scott Dixon ponders the 'what ifs' of red flag and fuel mileage at Indy 500

After finishing second again in the Indy 500, Scott Dixon wondered if it might have been different if there'd been a red flag to ensure a final restart.

motorsports.nbcsports.com

 

[JW1]

A couple of people have mentioned this but for me the biggest story/ disappointment was Marco Andretti. I hate to say anything against a great family like the Andretti's, but how could a guy with the fastest car on the track not even lead so much as one lap? Would he even have a ride if it wasn't for his father owning the team?

I remember his rookie year - and Marco almost winning the race. If I remember correctly, wasn't he only 19 years old? Since then it seems like he has no guts or ambition. How could he consistently be a 11-13 position finisher race after race? It's almost like he doesn't want to win. And doesn't care.

For me, if he has the potential to consistently finish between the 11th and 13th position so often why shouldn't he be number one more often than not? It doesn't figure. And for me it's really downright disappointing. Couldn't somebody else finish better with that car? Castroneves only drives One race a year and does better than Marco. And what about all these rookies?

I keep hoping for him to win a race, but it's really just downright disappointing. And darn near pathetic.

 

[StandOnIt]

I said it a week ago and I didn't mince words about "the Marco". It really came to roost at Indy. Had a super piece of equipment, no excuses, and when they dropped the flag his beans shriveled up.

 

[StewartHaas-Gibbs Racing]

Would he even have a ride if it wasn't for his father owning the team?

No he wouldn't. I'm very indifferent about Marco, I'm not a fan but I don't hate the guy or anything but he is everything that's wrong with racing nowadays, inherited a ride for his name alone and not his talent.

He has 2 wins, none since 2011 and 20 podiums, none since 2015 in 241 races. Anyone else would have been fired a long time ago.

He can't blame the equipment either because his teammates like RHR and Rossi have been killing it the last few years, both have Indy 500 wins. Hell Rossi has 7 wins and 20 podiums already in only 74 races.

 

[gnomesayin]

 

[Reck]

I know Alonso finished where he finished back of the field in 21st.

It goes to show you just cannot walk into IndyCar here with the amount of talent on the field and expect to be competitive. The only way I can see Alonso getting the Triple Crown done is by being a full-time driver in the series, obviously he cannot with signing to Renault for the next three years, but whatever he decides afterwards. I hope he makes a decision in wanting to be a full-time driver in IndyCar down the line.

Wouldn't he be like 43? That's really way over the hill. I dont care if you have the talent.

Fernando doesn't seem like the Jimmie type who works out and keeps in peak shape at that age and even he is having a rough go at it.

 

[kyle18fan]

A couple of people have mentioned this but for me the biggest story/ disappointment was Marco Andretti. I hate to say anything against a great family like the Andretti's, but how could a guy with the fastest car on the track not even lead so much as one lap? Would he even have a ride if it wasn't for his father owning the team?

I remember his rookie year - and Marco almost winning the race. If I remember correctly, wasn't he only 19 years old? Since then it seems like he has no guts or ambition. How could he consistently be a 11-13 position finisher race after race? It's almost like he doesn't want to win. And doesn't care.

For me, if he has the potential to consistently finish between the 11th and 13th position so often why shouldn't he be number one more often than not? It doesn't figure. And for me it's really downright disappointing. Couldn't somebody else finish better with that car? Castroneves only drives One race a year and does better than Marco. And what about all these rookies?

I keep hoping for him to win a race, but it's really just downright disappointing. And darn near pathetic.

Many of us were prepared to root for Marco, it was disappointing to say the least. I just flat like Mario, always have

 

[Nitro Dude]

I said it a week ago and I didn't mince words about "the Marco". It really came to roost at Indy. Had a super piece of equipment, no excuses, and when they dropped the flag his beans shriveled up.

When everyone was getting all excited about him being on the pole and figuring he was going to win the race I had my doubt's because being the only car out there trimmed out in clean air is not the same as racing with 32 other drivers in a lot of dirty air "turbulence". I personally don't think Marco will ever be a Mario and he may never win the Indy 500...but if he does that would be cool.

 

[Turtle84]

A couple of people have mentioned this but for me the biggest story/ disappointment was Marco Andretti. I hate to say anything against a great family like the Andretti's, but how could a guy with the fastest car on the track not even lead so much as one lap? Would he even have a ride if it wasn't for his father owning the team?

I remember his rookie year - and Marco almost winning the race. If I remember correctly, wasn't he only 19 years old? Since then it seems like he has no guts or ambition. How could he consistently be a 11-13 position finisher race after race? It's almost like he doesn't want to win. And doesn't care.

For me, if he has the potential to consistently finish between the 11th and 13th position so often why shouldn't he be number one more often than not? It doesn't figure. And for me it's really downright disappointing. Couldn't somebody else finish better with that car? Castroneves only drives One race a year and does better than Marco. And what about all these rookies?

I keep hoping for him to win a race, but it's really just downright disappointing. And darn near pathetic.

I could not believe how fast Dixon went after him off the drop of the green. Intimidating really. Maybe that's how he feels compared to some of the top-shelf driver talents.

I thought he recovered into the top 10 somewhat decently. But, not for having one of the fastest cars.

 

[Turtle84]

Wouldn't he be like 43? That's really way over the hill. I dont care if you have the talent.

Fernando doesn't seem like the Jimmie type who works out and keeps in peak shape at that age and even he is having a rough go at it.

I had to check this twice when I saw it, but Takuma Sato is 43.

 

[Reck]

I had to check this twice when I saw it, but Takuma Sato is 43.

Still, Sato has had years to master his craft at Indycar. As someone else said in this thread before, he used to be quite the wrecker when he first started this gig. I wouldn't expect Alonso to just pick up and win if he goes full time.

The up and coming kids in this series are already highly competitive and some already winning.

 

[donthaveanickname]

I know Alonso finished where he finished back of the field in 21st.

It goes to show you just cannot walk into IndyCar here with the amount of talent on the field and expect to be competitive. The only way I can see Alonso getting the Triple Crown done is by being a full-time driver in the series, obviously he cannot with signing to Renault for the next three years, but whatever he decides afterwards. I hope he makes a decision in wanting to be a full-time driver in IndyCar down the line.

Alonso is not doing himself a favor with his return to F1.
He's not going to compete for podiums in F1 but he could be an immediate threat to win races in IndyCar. Also, he would be the superstar that would get IndyCar the attention it deserves.

 

[Nitro Dude]

Here is a pretty cool short video of Rossi explaining the track and all of the different adjustments a driver makes while going around the IMS.

2016 Indy 500 winner Alexander Rossi breaks down why the race is so difficult

The Indy 500 is the most famous race in motorsports. At speeds of over 220 mph, drivers tear around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for 500 miles, or 200 laps. But while navigating an oval racetrack may seem fairly straightforward, surviving just one lap of “The Greatest Spectacle in Racing”...

www.yahoo.com

 

[gnomesayin]

Alonso is not doing himself a favor with his return to F1.
He's not going to compete for podiums in F1 but he could be an immediate threat to win races in IndyCar. Also, he would be the superstar that would get IndyCar the attention it deserves.

Internationally, perhaps, but I'm not sure how significant that would be for IndyCar in the short term. No doubt he'd be an asset to the series, but his star power in the U.S. has dimmed considerably just in the past two years, judging by the way his presence at Indy was covered.

The F1 limelight (and money, both salary and endorsement opportunities) is so much greater than IndyCar outside of the 500, even for a mid-pack performer.

For instance, an analogy: Kyle Larson loves what he's doing right now on dirt tracks, but he is clear about his desire to return to NASCAR, because that is where drivers of his stature and fame are expected to be. It's also higher paying. Alonso to full-time IndyCar would be akin to Larson choosing to do sprint cars, except IndyCar isn't his passion and is totally foreign to him, and he wouldn't be dominant like Larson is.

 

[FLRacingFan]

 

[FLRacingFan]

Interesting the second place car who was easily the fastest car, couldn't get within a block of the lead car or he would loose the front end.

Between Sato and Rossi I think Dixon had equal competition on pace, and Dixon perhaps could've had more opportunities if lapped traffic didn't factor in and the last five laps went green. Aero wash has been more prominent the last three years though, although the last two years they've added wicker options for both the front and rear wings to try to add some downforce back.

 

[FLRacingFan]

I know Alonso finished where he finished back of the field in 21st.

It goes to show you just cannot walk into IndyCar here with the amount of talent on the field and expect to be competitive. The only way I can see Alonso getting the Triple Crown done is by being a full-time driver in the series, obviously he cannot with signing to Renault for the next three years, but whatever he decides afterwards. I hope he makes a decision in wanting to be a full-time driver in IndyCar down the line.

Alonso had clutch problems that made things worse, but it never seemed like he had the same pace as O'Ward and Askew all month. The whole program last year was a disaster but junking the car twice in practice the last two years has only made it harder on himself considering how much the cars are smoothed and massaged for aero in the shop in the months leading up to the race. I think he'll return in 2023 but will need to be more engaged than a casual one-off program. 2017 seemed like a much more concerted effort than what's been run the last two years.

Clutch problem hinders Fernando Alonso at Indy 500

www.motorsport.com

 

[Doc Austin]

No doubt he'd (Alonso) be an asset to the series, but his star power in the U.S. has dimmed considerably just in the past two years, judging by the way his presence at Indy was covered.

Pretty sad when you consider he won the last two Lemans and the 2018 WEC driver's championship.

I think what killed his buzz here was missing the race last year. He was invisible here this year too.

 

[Kiante]

Still, Sato has had years to master his craft at Indycar. As someone else said in this thread before, he used to be quite the wrecker when he first started this gig. I wouldn't expect Alonso to just pick up and win if he goes full time.

The up and coming kids in this series are already highly competitive and some already winning.

This has been Sato's best season in terms of consistency of his IndyCar career. I still feel Sato has about two more good years in him before we see a downward trend. If he continues with his pace he has, he could be a threat for the championship next season. Not to mention, he's (Sato) had the measure of Graham Rahal for the most part in his time with RLL. Not the entire time, but the last year in a half Sato has even been more consistent than Rahal during the last year which is shocking to me.

 

[LewTheShoe]

Big congrats to Takuma Sato for his well-earned second win in the 500. Dixon seemed dominant for most of the race, but Sato was always "there or thereabouts," as Steve Machett would say. And when it came time to win the thing... in the final 50 laps... Sato was flat out fast, supremely aggressive, with scalpel-like precision.

The Indy 500 is not like other races. Always, every year, it is it's own deal, a unique challenge with a unique, life-changing reward. And Taku-san is a maestro of the 500. He wasn't my primary rooting interest this year, but he was among my short list of secondary favorites.

I am reminded of a comment made by AJ Foyt when he hired Sato to drive the #14 for SuperTex's team... "Takuma is not a Texan, but he sure drives like one!"

I don't think Dixon could have passed Sato in those last few laps if the track had remained under green flag. As for the finish under yellow, I'm fine with that call. I agree with others in this thread wanting clarity and consistency on when red flags will be deployed.

My main complaint was NBC's shallow coverage. They desperately need someone like Larry Mac (Nascar on Fox) to help us keep track of various strategy loops that are in play. And NBC is so reluctant to discuss the free laps everyone gets (everyone who is a lap behind) on many yellow flags that I was often confused... for example the caution on lap 84 when Kellett crashed.

One more thing about Taku-san... the man knows how to handle a quart of milk. It may be one of the oddest traditions in racing, but Takuma Sato has embraced it fully.

 

[Doc Austin]

Al Unser won his last 500 at 48, ands Mario won his last IndyCar race at 53 or 54. Sato looks to be in prime physical shape, so he could probably do this for awhile. When he gets out of IndyCar, hopefully he can bring Honda into IMSA or maybe even the WEC.

I watched the last 30 laps of the race again a few times, and I think Sato knew he had the car and simply waited to make his move. At the end, when they told Dixon to go, he had one move on Sato and then he was finished. He never ever got close enough after that to have a look. I don't buy it that Dixon was faster and threw the race away making fuel. He had 18 laps (minus five for the yellow) to make his move and only got close enough one time. Even if it had stayed green, I think the margin would have been even bigger.

I think this was just Sato's race. He had the best car and he drove the best race. Sato has a wild side that gets him in a lot of accidents, and this makes a lot of people discount him. In fact, that had a lot of people saying his first 500 was a fluke, or a one off. Sato is probably still going to have more silly accidents, but there's no longer any doubt that when he puts it all together he's close to unbeatable.

That, and it sucked bad enough that the race was postponed and ran before an empty house. It would have been a complete bore if Dixon went in as heavy favorite and then run away with it. It sure looked like it was going to play out that way, but surprise. This way the winner was a mild surprise and a mild upset and we had an epic battle. The only thing that spoiled it (but only a little) was that last yellow, but I think it was already over anyway.

We probably couldn't have asked for a better 500.

 

[Doc Austin]

Big congrats to Takuma Sato for his well-earned second win in the 500. Dixon seemed dominant for most of the race, but Sato was always "there or thereabouts," as Steve Machett would say. And when it came time to win the thing... in the final 50 laps... Sato was flat out fast, supremely aggressive, with scalpel-like precision.

The Indy 500 is not like other races. Always, every year, it is it's own deal, a unique challenge with a unique, life-changing reward. And Taku-san is a maestro of the 500. He wasn't my primary rooting interest this year, but he was among my short list of secondary favorites.

I am reminded of a comment made by AJ Foyt when he hired Sato to drive the #14 for SuperTex's team... "Takuma is not a Texan, but he sure drives like one!"

I don't think Dixon could have passed Sato in those last few laps if the track had remained under green flag. As for the finish under yellow, I'm fine with that call. I agree with others in this thread wanting clarity and consistency on when red flags will be deployed.

My main complaint was NBC's shallow coverage. They desperately need someone like Larry Mac (Nascar on Fox) to help us keep track of various strategy loops that are in play. And NBC is so reluctant to discuss the free laps everyone gets (everyone who is a lap behind) on many yellow flags that I was often confused... for example the caution on lap 84 when Kellett crashed.

One more thing about Taku-san... the man knows how to handle a quart of milk. It may be one of the oddest traditions in racing, but Takuma Sato has embraced it fully.

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Very good assessment.