Restrictor plates.

D

DE Wrangler 2

Guest
Everyone hates the restrictor plates. Let's say they take all those plates and melt them down and donate them to the war effort........how is that going to improve the racing? Don't you think it will be about the same as it is right now? A freight train of 43 cars only going about 40mph faster is what I see!:) The aero thing is not going to go away. Brakes would be a factor since I doubt any car would stick going into the turns at 230 to 240, even with the high banking. Fuel would be huge factor since an unrestricted engine is really going to slurp up the gas. I've heard all the stuff about if the good cars had all their power available they would be able to get away from the lessor cars.......but the plates are all the same size so if they can't get away now, I doubt they could get away without them.!:) Well, the "big one" would certainly be more spectacular.:(
 
I would be extremely happy to find out what kind of difference it would make. I don't think that would be the only change they would make. I like the idea of slightly narrower tires among other things. That would settle down the driving into the corners just a tad.
 
One thing I forgot. Back before restrictor plates one of the biggest problems the cars had was becoming airborne with the slightest upset on the track.......that, in fact, was one of the biggest factors contributing to the restrictor plates being mandatory at Daytona and Talladega. Roof flaps have been introduced since then..........but, I'm not sure that would help much at those speeds.

I'm not a big fan of restrictor plates. But I'm no engineer either and I have no solution to the problem. I've watched NASCAR (and their engineers) struggle with this mess for years......they've made some improvements so, I'm not going to bash them for trying. One thing to keep in mind. It takes a different skill to win on a plate track........some have figured it out and some have trouble. Like road courses!:) A successful driver in NASCAR Winston Cup (or Busch) has to learn to drive plate races, just like any other type of race.
 
Well for one thing the cars would be able to pass down the straights. They would no longer be sapped for power as they try to draft, the faster cars would truly "be" faster. The spoiler issue would have to be addressed, smaller spoilers would have to be mandated. Only problem i see is the speed, that is what got us the plates in the first place, brakes wouldn't be a huge issue. When old Bill went around Dega at an avg. of 212 back in 88 ( i think could have been 87), he didn't lift. I have always said a smaller displacement engine, somthing like a 4.6liter v-8 should be used for Dega and Daytona. Yeh their engine programs would be a pain in the butt for those races. But they are now, so nothing would really change, also make these engines so that they are made by one supplier, no tricking them up, that way horsepoweer would be the same across the board pretty much. Allow them to only do valve springs, carb tweaks, things like that.
 
Alright.............lets just go to the IROC theory. Make all cars the same with the same power plant, same style, same template. That would be fun.:D


Oh and Bill Elliott,s 212. something lap was all by himself. He didn't need to lift......he had the whole track to himself.:)
 
DEW, the main thing the plates do is reduce throttle response big time. When they lift and then mash, it takes forever to regain what they had. Without the plates, this would be different. Also, as you said, they would have to lift going into the corners and that means they would all have to work on their setups more. One more thing, we know that Elliott set the record at Dega at over 212 mph back in the 80's right. With todays technology and all the improvements they've made to the engines, suspension and everything, what do you think the top speed would be? I'm guessing it would be close, if not more than 230. That scares the living daylights out of me and I'm sure just about everyone in NASCAR thinks about the same. The only way to curb that would be to drasticly change the setup on the cars with just about everything. I think the guys would be comfortable at 200 or so mph, but they want that throttle response. I guess therein lies the rub. (always wanted to use that phrase!) :)
 
Ok did you guys see what i said about engine displacement or did that go right over your heads?
 
Well Buck.........I agree somewhat. Especially on the top speeds that would become normal. But, unrestricted vs restricted the relative response would be the same. Relatively speaking, the time to regain what they lost would be "forever"!:) Restrictor plates take the approximently 40% away from the engines........it's 40% of whatever horsepower an engine has unrestricted. All I see is some drivers not lifting as much as others.........and they will be spectacular when they hit the wall.:) The problem restrictor plates cause is that there isn't enough power to go much over 200 in the best of conditions......the tracks were built for those speeds. But they were not built for 230 to 240.
 
It didn't go over my head at all........but, that isn't going to happen. Only the huge teams could race then.......NASCAR has a big enough problem now with costs. But, if you want NASCAR to become like CART or F1, then I guess that would be okay.
 
A completely different set of engines for 4 races a season. Why do you think they went to one engine rule? That was strictly to lower costs........so the smaller teams weren't so disadvantaged.
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9
Why could only the huge teams race?
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Many teams are having a very hard time just fielding a team right now. Corporate sponsorship has taken a huge nosedive since 9-11-01. Having to manufacture entirely different engines would just not be financially feasable.
 
The cars shouldn't go faster. Remember when Bodine flipped his truck at Daytona? How much fence did he take out? Think about a car doing 230, or more, and decides to do a few flips in the air and lands in the crowd. I don't have a solution for this but they shouldn't go any faster, but they need to be able to lift off the throttle in a emergency and get back in the gas before they get into trouble.
 
It would actually decrease the amount of $$$ the teams would spend on super speedway racing dramatically.
They would no longer have to spend all that money on their plate development engines. An engine would probably cost in the 50-75,000 range , figure they would need 6-8 for average team/ year. Right now they spend astronomical $$$ on plate R&D, think about it, do the math.:)
 
Throttle response is my main complaint about plate "racing". If you don't have someone to basically push you, you can't function. Oh come on DE. Admit it, you just like plate "races" becuase that's the only place DEI dominates.:p
 
I'm not throwing stones DE, I want to see more road courses for the same type of reasoning.
 
Where did you ever see me post anything even implying I liked plates races? The difference, I guess, is that they are here.........and until something happens that makes it possible to do away with plates, they will remain here. Get over it...........I did.:) I don't care for road courses.......but they are here too........I got over that too.:)

And, for the life of me I can not figure out why people are so hung up on DEI having a good plate track record. Jeffy has a good road course record........so what?:D
 
You are missing my point they development of these engines would no longer be in their hands, they out source the engines from 1 supplier, just like going to your local speed shop for your race ready late model engine. One cost across the board, no strings, Nascar approved , mandated the entire bit. How could that not cut costs? And how would the speed increase if you are producing the same amount of horsepower with a smaller displacement engine vs the resticted engine. Restricted produce in the range of 450-475hp,non at this point in the 750hp range, so if you are producing 450hp with a 4.6l vs the 450hp with plate engine there would be no difference other than the fact you would have better throttle response which is what they are all after!
 
Now if Jeff can just win another road course race some time in the near future, I could get more excited about them again.
 
Don't hold your breath for a smaller displacement engine for two tracks. I still see the cars having the same problems unrestricted or small engines.........they are bunched up going over 220 mph, depending on the draft for an advantage, being the last one to lift going into a corner. No "improvement" in driver's ability to pass. Same skills required as restricted........only going a whole lot faster.......lots less margin for error.:)
 
I admit I don't have the answer on how to make it better, but I do know that plate "racing" sucks. It is boring, dangerous, and besides that it just plain sucks!
 
Guys, if there's one thing that NASCAR has become very aware of, that's fan reaction. To the drivers chagrin, the plate races are some of the most exciting races of the year, BECAUSE of the tight formations. Yeah, I'd like to see them get rid of the plates, but races at Tona and Dega are anything but boring. While the excitement might not be for the same reasons as say a race at Bristol or Rockingham, one sure sits on the edge of his/her seat, waiting and praying IT doesn't happen. Whether we like it or not, that sells. These two races are the only ones on the circuit that anyone can win, given the right luck. NASCAR knows that and they ain't gonna change it.
 
Ok how would there be the same results if the engine was unresticted/smaller displacement and the spoiler was cut down? There would be less aero push, more emphasis on handling and tire, driver would have the throttle response to pass. All Nascar needs to do is go to the big change. They go with all these small things, instead of fixing the problem they are masking it!
 
You're right buck...........I've learned to appreciate a plate race like I learned to appreciate a road course race. I watch AND enjoy both styles.......just glad there aren't more during the season.
 
Hmm... i bet if you did a poll of what people think about the big one, you would see that the close pack racing is what most people don't like!:rolleyes:
 
It is strange, because I really don't know anybody who actually likes plate "races" but fans at those two tracks cheer like crazy when they wreck. It seems the bigger the crash, the better for some of those morons.
 
Well I know nothing about NASCAR...........so maybe you should email the engineers with your analysis of the problem.:)
 
I never said that you knew nothing about Nascar, that was not what i was saying. The problem is right in Nascars' face and they continue to tippy toe around it....all i'm saying is address the problem head on and fix it.
 
You've nailed it right on the head Mopardh9.

But let me add that NASCAR doesn't want to change the plate races. They like the big crashes because the majority of people in the stands at those races are just hoping to see something get "blowed up real good".

For DEW to imply that there is some kind of "style" that goes into plate racing is pretty funny, IMO.
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9
I never said that you knew nothing about Nascar, that was not what i was saying. The problem is right in Nascars' face and they continue to tippy toe around it....all i'm saying is address the problem head on and fix it.
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Hmmmmmmmmm........?


Mopardh9 []



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01-05-03 03:07 AM • Profile • Send PM • Search • Report this post • IP • Edit • Quote

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I have said this in another post and I'll briefly state it again. It is all about money and business, Spencer didn't win, the sponsor and Chip wanted a winner...bottom line. He had the euipment, anyone who thinks that was a crappy ride doesn't know too much about Nascar. Spencer is a great driver he just hasn't excelled at the WC. level for whatever reason and i'm sure there are a few. When i was a kid back in Mass i watched the Bodines, Spencer,Schrader,Bouchards,and a few other guys like Park, and Nadeau race. Spencer could beat the best of them and often did.Just because he doesn't have 50 wins in WC makes him no less a driver than Kyle or anyone else. Talented in his own right, granted not a superstar, but still a good driver.
 
Well point taken...but you will have to admit i was right about Spencer.
 
Well, you said he was in a crappy ride. That's pretty far from the truth my friend.
 
Originally posted by paul
You've nailed it right on the head Mopardh9.

But let me add that NASCAR doesn't want to change the plate races.  They like the big crashes because the majority of people in the stands at those races are just hoping to see something get "blowed up real good".

For DEW to imply that there is some kind of "style" that goes into plate racing is pretty funny, IMO.
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I found that quote interesting too. For the most part any driver interviewed about a plate "race" says "...We'll try to avoid the big one...". It is the most purely lucky form of racing on the circuit. A guy can do terrible the whole race, but if most of the leaders get taken out in a huge wreck, as often happens, they end up with a top 10 finish or better.
 
Being right about Spencer has nothing to do with it..........he was wronged by Chip Ganassi. And that was my point. Everything here are opinions....no one on this forum that I know of is an accepted expert. :)
 
How was he wronged?

He wasn't winning.

Oh wait...he had a "crappy car" right? :D
 
Ok i'm not getting into a pissing contest here, I think i have considerable knowledge about Nascar having been involved and around it most of my 42 years. Just because i don't have my rookie stripe off my ass has nothing to do with this forum. I see a lot of people with mega posts make comments about subjects without really any basis behind it. I am no expert....that is for sure, but i like to think i know just a little about what i speak! Thanks for allowing me to voice my opinions here, if i have offended anyone i'm sorry, i speak and write it like i see it, bottom line.
 
Hey Mopar, I think DEW was just copying and pasting a past post of yours and copied that other stuff in by accident.

He isn't the kind of person to judge you on your post count. He's a good guy. :)
 
Originally posted by paul
How was he wronged?

He wasn't winning.

Oh wait...he had a "crappy car" right? :D
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Yeah.........wronged when Ganassi took the Busch ride too. I admitted Spencer didn't perform in the 41.........and I really had no problems with him being fired from that ride. My problem was with the Busch ride being taken too.

And where did I say he had a crappy ride? I went looked and I can't find it. I don't think he got the support he needed.......but I didn't say he had a crappy ride. :)
 
Yeah, I argue.........but I don't get mad!:)

You got to look at the smilies.
 
Ahem, in my best Teddy Kennedy voice...Let me say this about that...gurgle gurgle gurgle. What we have here...no, that's not Teddy. Oh never mind. As I said, I don't like plate racing, but I've forgotten what it was like without them. CRS you know. For whatever reason, crashes, big packs, anyone can win, these races are much more exciting now with the plates than a boring, follow the leader until the last turn of the last lap race. If you think they are going to get rid of the plates, yer smokin loco weed.
 
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