Roger Penske: The next major step is cost reduction in NASCAR

Charlie Spencer said:
Parking lots? Which race would that be?

Are you referring to street courses that may have a small portion cutting through a parking lot? Lots of series use street courses, including those are successful by their own standards. I don't personally like them, but it's hardly racing on parking lots.
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A lot of that didn't make any sense.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Any support for your post, and I only ask because I've never seen any published info on the economics Fox and NBC expected, much less any guarantee of windfalls. That would make fascinating reading, if you have a link.

Both networks have grown their subscriber base substantially, and they are paid per subscriber. Their Nascar ratings may be below expectations, but Nascar is consistently the highest ratings those networks get. It might seem their ratings are under-performing across the board? And would that be a shock, considering there was just ESPN, and all of a sudden there were competing networks launched by Fox, NBC, and CBS?

Let me be clear... I believe Nascar ratings are a serious problem, mainly because of the impact on team sponsorship. I'm interested in learning more about what is undoubtedly a complex, multi-dimensional issue. It ain't as easy as pinning it on BZF and the Chase, IMO, although many members here seem to disagree.
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I should have been more clear as I didn't mean the networks were touting that they had a cash cow but there were some fans on here that were beating that drum based on articles that they had read. I don't think it would have been unreasonable for FS1 and NBCS to use Nascar as a loss leader but not to the extent it is panning out. To the best of my knowledge FS1 and NBCS are not that far off in the number of subscribers versus ESPN but ESPN gets a lot more in carrier fees that the other 2.

In terms of the lack of money coming into Nascar will either have to "right size" itself or the market will take care of it for them. From what many fans said the dust up between Kyle and JLo was something the series needed as it drew international media attention and would only help with overall interest. We will see what the ratings look like over the next few weeks to see if that thought had any merit.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
One reason younger people move between interests is because they have so many more options than we did. When you only have three channels and the only sports shown are Wide World and the local football and baseball teams, it's easy to stick with your only choices.

I don't stick with things once they stop entertaining me, especially not just for loyalty's sake. I dropped baseball a few decades ago when it seemed like they were on strike every other year. I stopped watching action movies when they started paying more computer programmers than they did stunt men. Tastes change. I didn't know squat about NASCAR until I was 35, and only started taking bird watching and yoga seriously in the last couple of years.

I don't see anything wrong with seeking instant gratification in one's entertainment choices. It's their money and attention.
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"Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sport... the thrill of victory... and the agony of defeat... the human drama of athletic competition... This is ABC's Wide World of Sports!"

If seeking instant gratification could be isolated to entertainment that would be great but unfortunately once the influenza is caught it tears through other aspects of life unabated like a cancer ruining everything in its path.
 
Mopardh9 said:
How they going to borrow more if there is a spending limit??
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Spending limits are difficult to enforce. For example, Company X, an engineering firm in Japan, Develops a new suspension that will reduce lap times by 2 seconds that costs them 10 million dollars. Company X just happens to be 15% owned by Company Y. Company Y sells the suspension for $40 a car, but only to Toyota.

That's a 40 dollar charge against the cap.
 
Spec everything, autonomous cars, 1 set of tires, 1 tank of gas, half length races. 1 car per team 18 races a year...
 
Doug Yates doesn't want to hear it, nor his counterparts at Hendrick and Childress, but I believe doing the season with maybe ~15 motors per car would give enormous cost savings. And reductions in the number of chassis in the "fleet" is also possible, I believe.

OTOH, pure spec cars like in IndyCar is a concept that I oppose. That would lessen the appeal of Nascar to me. It's one thing to work within a tight box, as Nascar teams do, and another thing to have no box at all, like IndyCar.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Doug Yates doesn't want to hear it, nor his counterparts at Hendrick and Childress, but I believe doing the season with maybe ~15 motors per car would give enormous cost savings. And reductions in the number of chassis in the "fleet" is also possible, I believe.

OTOH, pure spec cars like in IndyCar is a concept that I oppose. That would lessen the appeal of Nascar to me. It's one thing to work within a tight box, as Nascar teams do, and another thing to have no box at all, like IndyCar.
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I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if you put 40 spec cars out there and put the current drivers in them. It would really tell you who the best drivers are.

Just for a race though.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if you put 40 spec cars out there and put the current drivers in them. It would really tell you who the best drivers are.

Just for a race though.
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IMO if the trends we see in Nascar continue and they want fields of 30+ cars they are basically going to have to go IROC racing. Even then the teams with more money will wring out some advantages but it would be less pronounced.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IMO if the trends we see in Nascar continue and they want fields of 30+ cars they are basically going to have to go IROC racing. Even then the teams with more money will wring out some advantages but it would be less pronounced.
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This is where the trend is heading but that doesn't mean it has to be the future. The MBAs and Brian France were once projecting 150k+ attending most races and TV ratings challenging the NFL's. Projecting trends out over longer time periods can be dangerous as Brian and company have learned but I agree that the long term trend line doesn't put NASCAR too far off Skoalbandit33's predictions of 30 car fields and, I will add, a more limited schedule of 28-30 races a season (maybe less.) If the bodies of the future are even more spec, I just hope at least another engine manufacturer will join the fray but what financial or marketing incentive will they have for doing so?
 
R Clarence said:
Always thought it’d be a lot of fun to watch the tire changers with X wrenches.

Thinkin’ they’d be surprisingly quick with ‘em with practice.
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That would be interesting to watch for at least a race. How about at the throwback race in Darlington?

How about every team use a brand of power tools that can be purchased by average Joes? Let the manufacturer pay to be the official power tools of NASCAR. Who cares if everyone's pit stop is a few seconds slower as long as it's fair and across the whole field? My $0.02.
 
Borrow an off-the-shelf 3 ton floor jack from Goober workin' at the Sunoco station what stays closed on Sundays.
 
NJJammer said:
That would be interesting to watch for at least a race. How about at the throwback race in Darlington?

How about every team use a brand of power tools that can be purchased by average Joes? Let the manufacturer pay to be the official power tools of NASCAR. Who cares if everyone's pit stop is a few seconds slower as long as it's fair and across the whole field? My $0.02.
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Please tell me you're being facetious.
 
R Clarence said:
Always thought it’d be a lot of fun to watch the tire changers with X wrenches.

Thinkin’ they’d be surprisingly quick with ‘em with practice.
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Chocolate Myers and the other pit guy were pretty quick with a 4 way lug wrench at the Fall race at Charlotte when Sr. left the pits with the left side lugnuts removed.... remember that????? Left side tires fell off in turn 1 and they let 'em roll tires and jack down there to replace 'em instead of making 'em pull it up on a rollback.....

Flagrant violation of working on the car outside of the pits or garage.....


Of course..... it was Sr. and crying towel Childress.....


there are always exceptions to the rules.......

It wasn't Sr'.s fault he dumped the clutch and left pit road with no lugnuts on the left side.....just miscommunication....
 
nascar supply showroom stock cars.
one crew member.
driver can get out and help on pit stops[optional].
 
NJJammer said:
That would be interesting to watch for at least a race. How about at the throwback race in Darlington?

How about every team use a brand of power tools that can be purchased by average Joes? Let the manufacturer pay to be the official power tools of NASCAR. Who cares if everyone's pit stop is a few seconds slower as long as it's fair and across the whole field? My $0.02.
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I don't care if pit stops take 20 seconds and the cars can't go faster than 170
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
According to some there is no such thing as cost cutting or the reduction in expenses in racing as if the teams save 500K in one area they will continue to spend it but in another area.
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Those people are 100% correct. Once racing is in your blood, you spend more than you should on it. These guys will spend everything they can.

There is a racing cliche that goes something like "the best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a large fortune."
 
The Nature Boy said:
I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if you put 40 spec cars out there and put the current drivers in them. It would really tell you who the best drivers are.

Just for a race though.
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I enjoyed the heck out of IROC, but as an alternative to NASCAR, not as a replacement.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I was checking to see if my old man Toyota Avalon had a donut for a spare and just about fell over when there was a full size tire sitting in the well mounted on a matching aluminum wheel.
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Okay, I call bulls#!t on that one. :D I can't even believe the well is deep enough to hold a full-sized tire, much less that there was one in it.

(Note to self: take a look at Toyos when I go car shopping next summer.)
 
If they reduce the number of teams a race team supports the teams will have less money to spend.
The Nature Boy said:
I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if you put 40 spec cars out there and put the current drivers in them. It would really tell you who the best drivers are.
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It was called IROC (with only about a dozen cars)
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, I call bulls#!t on that one. :D I can't even believe the well is deep enough to hold a full-sized tire, much less that there was one in it.

(Note to self: take a look at Toyos when I go car shopping next summer.)
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I can take a pic and post it! It has a 6.4 quart oil capacity too which seems like a lot.

The Avalon used to compete with the full size rear wheel drive Caprice and the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic which is why it probably had a full size spare and was available with a split bench seat. There were 2 things that would kill a sale to an old person and 1 was not having a full size spare and the other was not being able to carry 6 people.

Toyota probably has changed things as my Avalon is a 2005 model that I bought last year to replace a third vehicle. The car is much, much better than I imagined it would be so I find I am using it more than I thought I would. I bought the car primarily to use in the winter months and for photo expeditions but I like it so well I seem to be in it all the time. It is an excellent road car as you don't get cramped up or start squirming after long drives plus if you drive it sensibly it will get around 30 mpg and about 25-26 on the the Interstates at 80 mph. It has plenty of get up and go (280 horsepower) and it handles well but not like a sport sedan as the suspension is softer. It was in Canada a few weeks ago and if everything goes according to Hoyle it will be in Florida this Saturday afternoon. Toyota should have me do a commercial for them as I am very impressed.
 
The Nature Boy said:
It would really tell you who the best drivers are.
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I don't care who the best driver is. I care about who has the best car, best team to tune that car, and a driver that can take advantage of that. To me, this is what racing is.
 
They better be figuring out ways to reduce costs because there is less money to go around for all the teams. I was told by someone with some connections to NASCAR the deal with Monster was only $20 million a year for 3 years where Sprint had been paying $100 million a year. When the current TV contract is up, expect less money to come in from that. Now is the time to find more cost cutting measures instead of waiting until most of the current money is a lot less than it is now.
 
MRM said:
I was told by someone with some connections to NASCAR the deal with Monster was only $20 million a year for 3 years where Sprint had been paying $100 million a year.
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Your contact is exaggerating, according to all published reports. Sprint originally paid ~$75 million, half cash to Nascar and half for activation. After their extension, Sprint paid about $50 million total for cash plus activation, per year. And Monster is reportedly paying $20 million (some report $25 mil) in cash to Nascar, plus unspecified amounts for activation. So the current deal is significantly less, but not the 80% decline your contact implied.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Your contact is exaggerating, according to all published reports. Sprint originally paid ~$75 million, half cash to Nascar and half for activation. After their extension, Sprint paid about $50 million total for cash plus activation, per year. And Monster is reportedly paying $20 million (some report $25 mil) in cash to Nascar, plus unspecified amounts for activation. So the current deal is significantly less, but not the 80% decline your contact implied.
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That may be the case. Still, a 50% or more decrease isn't good. But college football is starting to see a bit of a downturn because they have gouged people left and right and the fans are about fed up with it there too.
 
MRM said:
They better be figuring out ways to reduce costs because there is less money to go around for all the teams. I was told by someone with some connections to NASCAR the deal with Monster was only $20 million a year for 3 years where Sprint had been paying $100 million a year. When the current TV contract is up, expect less money to come in from that. Now is the time to find more cost cutting measures instead of waiting until most of the current money is a lot less than it is now.
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Reducing costs is pretty straightforward. The weaker teams go bankrupt, the sanctioning body collapses, and the remaining strong teams take over the sport. Then they redo the system and it starts all over again. Indy racing has been perfecting this process for decades.
 
sloggie said:
Reducing costs is pretty straightforward. The weaker teams go bankrupt, the sanctioning body collapses, and the remaining strong teams take over the sport. Then they redo the system and it starts all over again. Indy racing has been perfecting this process for decades.
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That's one way to do it. Let's hope it doesn't come to that but maybe the sport will be better off out of the grip of the France family and these over-bloated TV contracts from the networks that are dictating all the changes recently for the presumed benefit of the TV audience but to the detriment of the race-going fans.
 
sloggie said:
Reducing costs is pretty straightforward. The weaker teams go bankrupt, the sanctioning body collapses, and the remaining strong teams take over the sport. Then they redo the system and it starts all over again. Indy racing has been perfecting this process for decades.
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unless I am mistaking, the smaller teams seem to be getting stronger. The 13 car with Ty Dillion driving under the Childress banner 22nd, DiBentidtto 30th, Cole Whitt 27th, Buescher 26th who is a second added car. Without the huge expense over 200 thousand for the crash cart and personnel, they get to keep more of the money. The 5 minute clock has been a success IMO. Leasing and selling charters seems to be working pretty good so far, much better than buying provisional starting positions. IMO
 
StandOnIt said:
unless I am mistaking, the smaller teams seem to be getting stronger. The 13 car with Ty Dillion driving under the Childress banner 22nd, DiBentidtto 30th, Cole Whitt 27th, Buescher 26th who is a second added car. Without the huge expense over 200 thousand for the crash cart and personnel, they get to keep more of the money. The 5 minute clock has been a success IMO. Leasing and selling charters seems to be working pretty good so far, much better than buying provisional starting positions. IMO
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Weaker and Stronger is not a factor of how many cars the team fields. It's a factor of how rich the owners are.
 
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