Roush Fenway

FenderBumper

FenderBumper

The "good old days" ??
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I think it was Nate Ryan who made some comments about Jack Roush leaving Bristol 60 laps early while his guys were running toward the back. He said the norm is for Jack to wait until the end before flying out. Maybe it was nothing, but he can't be happy about the way things are going so far.

Before the season started, I wondered how quickly the Penske engineering team would get a handle on the gen6. It seems to be going pretty good. Penske said one of the reasons for the switch was to have a benchmark to compare their speed to. So far, so good. Their 2 team organization holds first and 12th in points. The real story is how poorly RFR is performing against the benchmark Penske is already setting.

Matt Kenseth left to race for Gibbs, and he has shown some real speed, with a win and a shot at a second win until the HMS boys started popping tires.

So there is Jack at Bristol watching his organization being beat by the new guys in the Ford fold, with Biffle and Edwards 40 points out of the lead. Jack pulled out all the stops for Carl this year, giving him most of that awesome 17 pit crew and even giving him Stenhouses NW CC, yet Carl is just 9 points in front of Ricky? It's true that the top 3 teams are already separating themselves from the field, and that may continue or reverse, but these Roush guys are closer to Mark Martin (just 3 starts) than they are to the top of the field.

Is this situation giving Jack ulcers? How long before we hear talk about a major shakeup at RFR? Is Carl looking over at Matts speed and wondering if he should have made that Gibbs deal back in 2011? Is this a do or die year for Greg and Carl, and the ball is bouncing away? When Penske went to Ford, I think Jack knew his place at the top of the Ford camp would be challenged, but can't they even put up a decent fight?
 
I think Jack is sheeting razor blades watching the new guys whoop his ass. He knows it's just a matter of time before Penske displaces him at the top of the food chain with Ford. If Penske wins the championship, or even whoops RFR badly this year, Roger will assert himself with Ford and start calling the shots. We could be talking about Penske-Yates engines before long.
 
FenderBumper said:
Huh? Winnings for 3 driver vs 2 isn't a valid comparison. Penske has earned about $1 million per driver. Roush has earned about 835,000 per driver.
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Huh? Look back through the years, Roush has made twice as much money most every year. This year is the exception and we are only four races in.

I just don't see Ford dumping a long time confidant for a team that likes to bar hop (manu to manu).
 
Roush does a lot of R & D work for Ford along with others. He won't go anywhere and it's doubtful Ford will dump him.
 
Smoke14 said:
Huh? Look back through the years, Roush has made twice as much money most every year. This year is the exception and we are only four races in.

I just don't see Ford dumping a long time confidant for a team that likes to bar hop (manu to manu).
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I see your points, but Roush has always had more teams than Penske. It isn't about purse money for Ford, it's about championships, and they haven't had one since 2004. It's been all Chevy since then, and Ford knows Roush can't compete against the huge resources of HMS. The ONLY team that can is Penske, and Ford knows that's where their future lies. Ford knows why Penske switched to the brand that was in all his showrooms, and they know it could happen again if Dodge comes back. They will do EVERYTHING they need to keep him this time around. Loyalty only holds true if the performance and results are there, and they haven't been getting it done. Ford bet a lot of money on Carl in 2010, and they had to feel burned in 2011. They aren't going to sit around getting whooped by Chevy for another decade.

I'm not suggesting that Ford will 'dump' Roush, but Penske will be the co-lead organization soon. I wouldn't be surprised if major concessions were already made to the very impressive Penske engineering department just to get Roger to agree to using Roush / Yates engines. IMO, if engine failures become an issue, that deal will end quickly and Penske will be allowed to develop Penske / Yates engines under the 'One Ford' plan.

Here's some Brad stuff to keep dpk and Johali on their toes. Ford was salivating to get Brad in the Ford fold. They watched him work hard and stay cool while winning a championship with just ONE full season Dodge driver in the field. Not enough has been said about that unprecedented accomplishment. Now he's leading the points and competing for wins, and he even played a key role in Fords one win this year. When Matt left, Brad became, by far, the best driver in a Ford.

Ford finally has their winning team, and they will do whatever they need to do to keep it. When Penske wins a championship for Ford, and they will in the next 2 years, the balance of power in Cup will begin to shift as more and more teams see Penske / Ford as a great option to Hendrick / Chevy.

I predict that 5 years from now, the Sprint cup garage will look very different.
 
FenderBumper said:
I see your points, but Roush has always had more teams than Penske. It isn't about purse money for Ford, it's about championships, and they haven't had one since 2004. It's been all Chevy since then, and Ford knows Roush can't compete against the huge resources of HMS. The ONLY team that can is Penske, and Ford knows that's where their future lies. Ford knows why Penske switched to the brand that was in all his showrooms, and they know it could happen again if Dodge comes back. They will do EVERYTHING they need to keep him this time around. Loyalty only holds true if the performance and results are there, and they haven't been getting it done. Ford bet a lot of money on Carl in 2010, and they had to feel burned in 2011. They aren't going to sit around getting whooped by Chevy for another decade.

I'm not suggesting that Ford will 'dump' Roush, but Penske will be the co-lead organization soon. I wouldn't be surprised if major concessions were already made to the very impressive Penske engineering department just to get Roger to agree to using Roush / Yates engines. IMO, if engine failures become an issue, that deal will end quickly and Penske will be allowed to develop Penske / Yates engines under the 'One Ford' plan.

Here's some Brad stuff to keep dpk and Johali on their toes. Ford was salivating to get Brad in the Ford fold. They watched him work hard and stay cool while winning a championship with just ONE full season Dodge driver in the field. Not enough has been said about that unprecedented accomplishment. Now he's leading the points and competing for wins, and he even played a key role in Fords one win this year. When Matt left, Brad became, by far, the best driver in a Ford.

Ford finally has their winning team, and they will do whatever they need to do to keep it. When Penske wins a championship for Ford, and they will in the next 2 years, the balance of power in Cup will begin to shift as more and more teams see Penske / Ford as a great option to Hendrick / Chevy.

I predict that 5 years from now, the Sprint cup garage will look very different.
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I agree, I just hope that "different look" doesn't spell Honda or something similar.

On a positive note, Brad has that look that most race fans are looking for.

Brad-Keselowski-Nascar-2013-outfit_zpsa4caf49f.gif


:D
 
Smoke14 said:
I agree, I just hope that "different look" doesn't spell Honda or something similar.

On a positive note, Brad has that look that most race fans are looking for.

Brad-Keselowski-Nascar-2013-outfit_zpsa4caf49f.gif


:D
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lol You are one kinky dude.

But he does make for a better looking 4 O'clock woman than he does a championship driver. Eye droop works wonders in these butter face situations. ;)
 
Wonky eyed and no breastesses, could have done better.
 
Bobw said:
Wonky eyed and no breastesses, could have done better.
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Nothing wrong with being a member of the I.B.T.C. but Brad should spend a little time in a tanning booth... :cool:

Hard to say what will happen if Brad wins the title again this year (which was my Bold Prediction, BTW...) If he does, then FORD will be able to point to the R-Y engine program as a great success. The FR-9 engine seems to be pretty stout. They just seem to need a little more horsepower (or maybe it's low-end torque, I dunno) overall.

As for the current driver line-up at RFR: Icky Ricky will be around for a long time. The Biff may be out after his contract is up at the end of the 2014 season. And then there is Eddie Haskell. Someone needs to get him a clue! Being a two-faced azz does nothing to help him, IMO.
 
Gotta remember when Jack was born, we were sill fighting a war with Hitler. He has had two airplane crashes, one included a major blow to the head and lack of oxygen under water for quite some time. I think he just getting old, couldn't go the distance at Bristol the other day. And more than likely has brain damage of some sort, probably reason for second crash. I just think sh_t rolling downhill at roush, maybe time to pass the reins over and watch the success or not of his teams from home. There just maybe an improvement.
 
Last few years , it's been a bit of a toss up between Jack and Joe Gibbs , who has the worst stable of misfit drivers . Skilled yes , but team players? not. They will need to upgrade drivers and crew chiefs to the Hendrick mold , where information , car prep , etc. is equally shared among the teams if they are going to compete . If Penske and Waltrip can keep harmony between their teams , they will pass Roush and Gibbs.
 
Good observations by all. Jack is getting old, and perhaps he isn't that worried about the teams early performance. Roush has a bright star in Ricky coming up, but can he hold him if the team lacks performance? Jack seems to be a loyal owner, but a guy like Ricky is driven to win, and he'll walk if he gives up hope of being a champion with RFR.

I just don't see RFR on the same level as HMS the last few years. They did beat them in 2010, but that was definitely an off year for JJ. They did get beat by Stewart-Haas, and that was just 3 years after forming that partnership.
 
ted@economy said:
Last few years , it's been a bit of a toss up between Jack and Joe Gibbs , who has the worst stable of misfit drivers . Skilled yes , but team players? not. They will need to upgrade drivers and crew chiefs to the Hendrick mold , where information , car prep , etc. is equally shared among the teams if they are going to compete . If Penske and Waltrip can keep harmony between their teams , they will pass Roush and Gibbs.
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I wouldn't say HMS is totally equally shared, But I bet more information crosses paths at HMS in 1 day at the track then RFR/JGR does in the 5 days back at the shop.
 
FenderBumper said:
Good observations by all. Jack is getting old, and perhaps he isn't that worried about the teams early performance. Roush has a bright star in Ricky coming up, but can he hold him if the team lacks performance? Jack seems to be a loyal owner, but a guy like Ricky is driven to win, and he'll walk if he gives up hope of being a champion with RFR.

I just don't see RFR on the same level as HMS the last few years. They did beat them in 2010, but that was definitely an off year for JJ. They did get beat by Stewart-Haas, and that was just 3 years after forming that partnership.
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I just don't see three one car teams (like Roush & Gibbs) being to way to go in the future .
 
Over the time Roush has been around I'm guessing they have had cycles of complacency, innovation, and catchup; I'm not sure where they are at now. Penske is riding high by having all the right pieces (driver/team/organization) at this time; not missing a beat by changing manufacturers says a lot about the organization.
 
Magnethead said:
they are a 3-car team with zero communication, acting as 3 1-car teams, I think is what he was getting at.
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OK, thanks. I got confused. I think Roush caters to Carls driving style, and I don't think that suited Matt very well. Biffle likes his cars real loose, and I think that starts with the frame build. Denny and Kyle sure don't have the same style, but Matt and Denny are similar.
 
I think that Jimmie and Junior are working well together , but the four crew chiefs are working extremely well together ,which is the most important issue. I don't hear much of that from Gibbs and Roush.
 
I never have liked Roush's management style. every program I have watched about him, he is into everybody's business, micro managing. When he was younger this style wouldn't bite him as bad as it is now that he is pretty dinged up. He can't micro manage everybody, and he tends to hire "yes" people. Penski, Hendrick, Stewart, for example have all said publicly, that they try to hire the best people and give them the tools to do the job. I have never heard that out of Roush.
 
ted@economy said:
I think that Jimmie and Junior are working well together , but the four crew chiefs are working extremely well together ,which is the most important issue. I don't hear much of that from Gibbs and Roush.
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I have read a few articles that mention how multi-team race organizations lean toward the preferences of one driver or another when designing their frames. I didn't realize there was any leeway in how they are built. I wish I could find more on the subject, or even the article it was mentioned in. I'm pretty sure it was Roush, and how Matt liked the cars tighter than he was getting, but Carl and Biffle liked them loose. I can't be sure though. I do remember Kurt, in his last year at Penske, screaming that the cars weren't "2% tighter" like he had been told. I wondered if that was a shift from one drivers preferences to another, and if that's one of the things that sent him over the edge.

It also makes we wonder if JJ got what he preferred until the streak was over in 2010. Perhaps Jr. has more input now? I tried to get Steve Burns to have Race Hub look into it and perhaps do a segment on how these decisions are made, and how much difference it might make, but I don't think he got what I was talking about. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. :confused:
 
Thought frames were made to Nascar specs with no in house leeway?
 
You have engineering tolerances on everything. +/- so many hundredths or thousands of an inch. Hard to explain, but that is basically a square box. for example, height at spoiler can be 36" high +/- .25 so you could go 35.75 up to 36.25. Pages and pages of specs on a car. Anything that doesn't have a spec on it, you can almost bet the crew chiefs will mess with it.
 
All this because Roush left a race early? I seriously doubt he's panicking because he only has one win in the first four races....it's one more than all but two other teams :confused:
 
#17D500winner said:
All this because Roush left a race early? I seriously doubt he's panicking because he only has one win in the first four races....it's one more than all but two other teams :confused:
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might be because Ford hasn't won a manufacturers championship since 02?. And I bet if they win one this year, the big reason will be Penske with a two car Ford team
 
#17D500winner said:
All this because Roush left a race early? I seriously doubt he's panicking because he only has one win in the first four races....it's one more than all but two other teams :confused:
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I knew you would be the one to hang on one paragraph. No, it's not all because Jack left early.
 
FenderBumper said:
I think it was Nate Ryan who made some comments about Jack Roush leaving Bristol 60 laps early while his guys were running toward the back. He said the norm is for Jack to wait until the end before flying out. Maybe it was nothing, but he can't be happy about the way things are going so far.
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With over 39 races in the season contested by 43 cars, I'd be surprised if every owner stayed for every lap. Penske and Ganassi skip entire races when their non-NASCAR teams are active. We don't know what other obligations The Cat had the next day - Ford meetings, sponsor obligations, tickets to take his wife to 'Cats', pilot license renewal test :D ; who knows? He's had seasons start worse than this one.
 
Putting Stenhouse in a cup car, your probably going to take a pretty big hit for a while until the rookie learns the ropes, and Carl and Biffle are going to have to take up the slack
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'll bite; what would be wrong with Honda?
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Come on Charlie, you are messing with me, aren't you.

Everyone knows when Toyota breached the good ole boys code, NASCAR changed the rules so the rice burners could be competitive. Toyota was to be the end all of the sport I love. We lost Dodge and Pontiac because of Toyota.

Can you honestly imagine what will happen if Honda shows up???

:p
 
Smoke14 said:
NASCAR changed the rules so the rice burners could be competitive. Toyota was to be the end all of the sport I love. We lost Dodge and Pontiac because of Toyota.
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Bullsh!t!! NASCAR penalized Toyota for being Too Powerful.

NASCAR restricted the development of the TRD (an American company, based in Costa Mesa, CA) engine. First in the Truck series and then in N'wide and CUP.

And the demise of Pontiac had NOTHING to do with Toyota having a NASCAR program...

Put down the bong, Smoke!
 
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