FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Oh the drama. Lets not get too carried away by one race and a great interview by Juan.
Nobody is jumping on the Fajita wagon over this one weekend.
Oh the drama. Lets not get too carried away by one race and a great interview by Juan.
Nobody is jumping on the Fajita wagon over this one weekend.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
I agree . I could get on that bandwagon if Juan could win an oval race . He is a colorful , outspoken and hard to pass . I gained a lot of respect for him last week.
SlicedBread22
#TeamJL
My point exactly. You can't compare success in open wheel to stock car racing.. Congrats to all those guys and it doesn't take from their accomplishments. But just because Pablo won this title and that title in f1.. so what? I watch nascar.
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
And how well do you think Bobby Labonte do in Formula One?
Aside from Dario's 2008 attempt and Tony Stewart coming to NASCAR after winning the IRL championship in '98, every open-wheeler who has come to NASCAR has been a wash-out or a has-been, including Montoya, who I am a fan of. You are talking about "B" and "C" grade talent attempting to compete in crappy equipment in NASCAR. If Greg Biffle or Dale Earnhardt Jr. went to Formula One and raced for Team Force India, he would look just as terrible as some of these guys have looked.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Wow , and they were all guys?
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
So Tony wasn't a washout, neither was multi champion Dario, in your opinion, but You say Montoya is a washout, has been "B" or "C" grade talent. You trying to get something started, or do you need to have your head examined. Here is the record of that washout Montoya.
1998 International F3000 Champion1999 CART FedEx Championship Series Champion
2000 Indianapolis 500 Winner
2003 Monaco Grand Prix Winner
2007, 2008, 2013 24 Hours of Daytona Overall Winner
Awards
1999 CART Rookie of the Year2000 Indianapolis 500 Rookie of the Year
2007 NASCAR Nextel Cup Series Rookie of the Year
I don't have a clue on what point you are trying to prove
SlicedBread22
#TeamJL
That only the very bottom stat is relevant...
C
Captain Coyfish
Guest
In a mediocre year for ROTY.That only the very bottom stat is relevant...
SlicedBread22
#TeamJL
Really.. Joey Logano has a better resume in a stock car than Montoya...
Tennessee Racing
Formerly Stewart Fan
But none of those stats(minus the last one) mean anything. He's a great driver but in Cup he's struggled.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
why are you using my post to harp on Joey, my post was comparing the level of competition to other forms of motorsports. Your driver has never driven an open wheel, unless you count a go cart. Focusing on only JPM out of all the other champions who have tried their hand at Nascar isn't the point at all. Yeah I know Go Joey
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
exactly my point, he and many others...shows the level of competition that is Nascar
SlicedBread22
#TeamJL
I was really just throwing a driver out there. Just saying that someone with so little experience still has done better in NASCAR than Montoya has, which shows all his open wheel success doesn't really mean anything. So chill out.. and yes of course GO JOEY!!! LOLwhy are you using my post to harp on Joey, my post was comparing the level of competition to other forms of motorsports. Your driver has never driven an open wheel, unless you count a go cart. Focusing on only JPM out of all the other champions who have tried their hand at Nascar isn't the point at all. Yeah I know Go Joey
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Just so I'm sure I understand, I assume nothing Tony did before running the Busch series counts either, right? Ditto Foyt and Andretti?
SlicedBread22
#TeamJL
Not that it doesn't count. The thing is that open wheel success (more often than not) does not ensure success in NASCAR. There are a few exceptions.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Not as much as he's regretting that restart...
Touche....
BamaFan
Lets Go Racin
LMAO.......
This is funny stuff! I got some good advice for you guys.My grandad used to tell me "son, don't ever argue with ignorance , They will drag you down to their level and beat you every time with experience."
Please keep it coming
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
It's rare to find someone who gets upset when other people change their minds and start pulling for his favorite driver.
BamaFan
Lets Go Racin
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
No, you know exactly what I'm trying to prove, don't play coy with me.
I like Montoya a lot. I am one of his biggest fans, I still like him from his great 99-00 seasons in CART and I've defended him before here when people have challenged his road racing skills. But, he was run out of Formula One. He never lived up to expectations and wasn't the championship contender people expected of him and his dominance in American open-wheel racing. He was fired from Williams. He was fired from McLaren. He didn't come to NASCAR because he had conquered Formula One. He came to NASCAR because he had nowhere else to go and he could either race for crap Minardi in Formula One, or screw around in IndyCar for a tiny paycheck.
I know you stock car guys like to pretend that every open wheeler/road racer who comes to NASCAR is Ayrton Senna or Michael Schumacher, but a lot of these guys aren't top notch championship grade talent, or aren't anymore. So, again, I ask, do you think Bobby Labonte, Jamie McMurray or Ryan Newman would turn any heads if they tried to move to IndyCar or Formula One?
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Bobby Labonte doesn't turn heads in NASCAR any more. At one point several years ago, Jeff Gordon was courted by a couple of F1 teams; he decided to stay put. If anyone, I think Kyle could be successful at F1; he's been successful at everything else. At one time, I would have said Tony but I think he's now too old to make the transition.
Don't take this wrong, but I'm never sure how much of a successful open-wheel campaign is in the hardware as opposed to the meat in the ****pit. It has to be easier to drive a car that's purpose-built for racing as opposed to a bastardized sedan.
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
Sure. But you're still racing against guys who have spent their entire careers racing these style of cars.
Anyway, the point I was going to make is that NASCAR absolutely is the highest form of stock car racing in the world. But, open-wheel and sports car racing are different disciplines entirely, just like drag racing or motorcycle racing. I don't think you can say NASCAR is the end-all be-all of motorsports when all the open-wheelers who have tried it (aside from Dario and Tony, in the modern era) have not been top-notch talent.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
I don't do coy BTW. And I don't make up fairy tales either. Won't make any difference to you, but the articles I read say different.Note the bottom..ranked 30th in a list of the top 50th F1 drivers of all time.
here are the highlights of his driving career: the rest of just this one article about Juan are below:
The obviously stacked deck examples of "team India" aren't close to a fair comparison, but obviously your opinion is so biased against Nascar, it won't make any difference either.
The highlights of his career include winning the International F3000 championship in 1998, and the CART FedEx Championship Series in 1999, as well as victories in some of the most prestigious races in the world. He is the only driver to have won the premier North American open-wheel CART title, the Indianapolis 500 and the 24 Hours of Daytona, all at the first attempt. Montoya is one of two drivers to have won the CART title in his rookie year, the first being Formula One World Champion Nigel Mansell in 1993. He has also equalled Graham Hill's feat of being a Monaco Grand Prix and Indianapolis 500 race winner; Montoya is currently one of only two active drivers (along with Jacques Villeneuve) who has won two legs of the Triple Crown of Motorsport.
Montoya has also become a crossover race winner by winning races (starting in each case in his rookie year) in Formula One, CART, IndyCar, Grand-Am and NASCAR equalling in that respect Mario Andretti's caliber of success (except for the F1 World Championship); And shares honors as well with Dan Gurney in being IndyCar/F1/NASCAR race winner. Montoya is also the only driver to have competed in all three major events at Indianapolis, finishing fourth or better in each event. He finished 1st in the Indianapolis 500, 2nd in the Brickyard 400, and 4th in the US Grand Prix.
In October 2009, Montoya was ranked 30th in a list of the top 50 Formula One drivers of all time by Times Online
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Pablo_Montoya
here are the highlights of his driving career: the rest of just this one article about Juan are below:
The obviously stacked deck examples of "team India" aren't close to a fair comparison, but obviously your opinion is so biased against Nascar, it won't make any difference either.
The highlights of his career include winning the International F3000 championship in 1998, and the CART FedEx Championship Series in 1999, as well as victories in some of the most prestigious races in the world. He is the only driver to have won the premier North American open-wheel CART title, the Indianapolis 500 and the 24 Hours of Daytona, all at the first attempt. Montoya is one of two drivers to have won the CART title in his rookie year, the first being Formula One World Champion Nigel Mansell in 1993. He has also equalled Graham Hill's feat of being a Monaco Grand Prix and Indianapolis 500 race winner; Montoya is currently one of only two active drivers (along with Jacques Villeneuve) who has won two legs of the Triple Crown of Motorsport.
Montoya has also become a crossover race winner by winning races (starting in each case in his rookie year) in Formula One, CART, IndyCar, Grand-Am and NASCAR equalling in that respect Mario Andretti's caliber of success (except for the F1 World Championship); And shares honors as well with Dan Gurney in being IndyCar/F1/NASCAR race winner. Montoya is also the only driver to have competed in all three major events at Indianapolis, finishing fourth or better in each event. He finished 1st in the Indianapolis 500, 2nd in the Brickyard 400, and 4th in the US Grand Prix.
In October 2009, Montoya was ranked 30th in a list of the top 50 Formula One drivers of all time by Times Online
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Pablo_Montoya
The best drivers in the world drive NASCAR. IMO, open wheel cars are a joke. Can you imagine if NASCAR drivers could adjust the car while behind the wheel? Montoya cannot get a grip on a stock car. Very few open wheel drivers have been successful in NASCAR. Foyt, Gurney, Donahue are some good examples of drivers that can drive anything.
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
Stop copying and pasting Montoya's list of achievements. I'm aware of what he's done. He was fired from Williams. He was fired from McLaren. He is in NASCAR because there were no more top rides open at F1 and he can make more money in NASCAR than he can in IndyCar or sports car racing somewhere.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
Gurney was pretty amazing. He made his own car and raced it on formula one. It had innovations that the rest of the car builders used. I think he called it the Eagle or Eagle 1
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
Remind me, what stock car guys have gone to open-wheel racing and done well?
Explain to me WHY a stock car driver would go to open wheel, is a more relevant question
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
Don't tell me to stop doing anything bubba, you started this person attack B.S. so suck it up. Here is an answer to one of your fairy tales about getting fired from williams.
Renault, Williams' engine supplier for most of the 1990s, left Formula One at the end of the 1997 season. With no major engine suppliers available, Williams were forced to sign a contract to run customer engines for the 1998 and 1999 seasons. In 1998 the team failed to win a race for the first time in a decade. For the 1999 season, in the hope of attracting more investors to the underperforming team, Frank Williams agreed to a driver swap with CART team owner Chip Ganassi, in which Ganassi's 1997 and 1998 CART champion driver, Alessandro Zanardi, would return to Formula One and Montoya would take his place in the competitive American series.
I like the "bubba" part
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
I was talking about Montoya getting fired from Williams after 2004, not before he even made it to Formula One.
How did we get from Jimmie to Juan?
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
How did we get from Jimmie to Juan?
StandOnIt said that NASCAR was the highest form of motorsport. I politely disagreed and somehow Montoya's credentials became the lynch pin of both of our arguments.
IMO, there are far more NASCAR fans than there are open wheel fans. At least around here. I can't say I've ever been anywhere in town and saw someone wearing any open wheel related fan apparel. I've never been anywhere and even heard anyone discussing anything open wheel related. FWIW, NASCAR sells more hats and shirts than the NFL and NBA combined.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
ok, here is another fairy tale
2004 was a disappointing year for Montoya. His relationship with the team was strained throughout the season since both parties knew he would be leaving for the McLaren team at the end of the year.
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
Isn't that where we are?
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
Isn't that where we are?
We were talking about which has the best drivers and level of competition, not which is the most popular. Honey Boo Boo may do well in TV ratings but that doesn't mean it's the Citizen Kane of television programming.