Should NASCAR increase minimum speed?

Formerjackman said:
The lack of cautions the last few years has REALLY exposed just how far off the leader's pace some of these cars are.
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I went back to this one.

Of the 30 cars running at the end of the I500, 22 were on the lead lap. The last car running was only three laps down. If I remember correctly, the race had only two cautions, with the last 200 miles running uninterrupted, so there was plenty of opportunity for the field to separate. Many of those lead lap cars were part-time or one-off cars and / or drivers (including the winner), teams and drivers that theoretically wouldn't be competitive with the roughly 22 full time teams.

Of 37 cars running at the end of the 600, 14 were on the lead lap. Almost half were a lap down after the first 100 laps, At the end, none were only one lap down, and over half a dozen undamaged cars were more than three behind. Besides the scheduled stage breaks, I recall there was only one other caution (Kurt's was lumped in with the final stage break). The last 150 miles or so went green all the way. There were only three unchartered teams in the 600, so being part time wasn't why most of the field couldn't keep up.

Yes, a 1.5-mile track is smaller than a 2.5-mile one so cars will be lapped faster. But unlike Indy, NASCAR rules guarantee at least one driver getting a lap back at each caution. That was five free laps last night, although more than one may have gone to the same car.

So in one series, many of the full-time teams are uncompetitive. In the other, the part-time and even once-a-year teams have no problem keeping up in its most demanding race. Is it explained strictly by the cost of being competitive? Any other theories?
 
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I think the charter system is a big part of this problem. When you got slow guys showing up with a guaranteed starting spot you end up with this.

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It wasn’t a group of uncompetitive cars it was the 66 and the RWR ****boxes time after time


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Charlie Spencer said:
I went back to this one.

Of the 30 cars running at the end of the I500, 22 were on the lead lap. The last car running was only three laps down. If I remember correctly, the race had only two cautions, with the last 200 miles running uninterrupted, so there was plenty of opportunity for the field to separate. Many of those lead lap cars were part-time or one-off cars and / or drivers (including the winner), teams and drivers that theoretically wouldn't be competitive with the roughly 22 full time teams.

Of 37 cars running at the end of the 600, 14 were on the lead lap. Almost half were a lap down after the first 100 laps, At the end, none were only one lap down, and over half a dozen undamaged cars were more than three behind. Besides the scheduled stage breaks, I recall there was only one other caution (Kurt's was lumped in with the final stage break). The last 150 miles or so went green all the way. There were only three unchartered teams in the 600, so being part time wasn't why most of the field couldn't keep up.

Yes, a 1.5-mile track is smaller than a 2.5-mile one so cars will be lapped faster. But unlike Indy, NASCAR rules guarantee at least one driver getting a lap back at each caution. That was five free laps last night, although more than one may have gone to the same car.

So in one series, many of the full-time teams are uncompetitive. In the other, the part-time and even once-a-year teams have no problem keeping up in its most demanding race. Is it explained strictly by the cost of being competitive? Any other theories?
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I think you have left out the disparity between front running Nascar teams and the lower level team/s. Hendrick has 4 cars/numerous affiliates and 600 people working for him, others I don't know but I am pretty sure they have more people and overhead than what Indycar front running teams have. So yeah there is a long way to the top in Nascar. The car is another issue. Indycars are pretty simple, cheap to build in comparison and they run similar speeds.
 
I think they need to keep a better eye out on who is running the minimum speed. I know it was a hassle to call in Star but he had no business out there. I think after he came out the second time they ignored his times. I don't have problems with the current formula but I think it needs to be enforced better. Slower cars are part of racing.
 
sdj said:
You asked:

Should NASCAR increase minimum speed?​


"YES"
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Yep closing rate is too much. NASCAR has Jeff Gordon in the booth spelling it out to them, doesn't get any easier.
 
Here's an idea. How about a minimum qualifying speed? Most drivers were 6 mph off the pole speed. Three of the RWR cars were 9 mph behind Larson. The #66 was 17 mph slower. A minimum qualifying speed would have saved from ever seeing him.

Yeah, we don't have full fields now, but I rather see cars eliminated before they're in the way.
 
yes!!!! quote of the weekend from jeff gordon, how many of those 66 cars are out there?
 
If the cars had more HP and less downforce I think the lappers would be less of a problem.
As it is it’s damn near single groove on the 1.5s and aero-difficult to pass when you finally do get a run on a car.
 
BobbyFord said:
If the cars had more HP and less downforce I think the lappers would be less of a problem.
As it is it’s damn near single groove on the 1.5s and aero-difficult to pass when you finally do get a run on a car.
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Absurd comment. If anything it’s more difficult because if you catch them at the wrong time it can be incredibly impactful. People forget we were hitting 200 regularly going into turns at Texas, Charlotte, Las Vegas and 215 at Michigan.

I see far more passing than I used to because at speed you could only take one line with that speed and splitter
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Absurd comment. If anything it’s more difficult because if you catch them at the wrong time it can be incredibly impactful. People forget we were hitting 200 regularly going into turns at Texas, Charlotte, Las Vegas and 215 at Michigan.

I see far more passing than I used to because at speed you could only take one line with that speed and splitter
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The problem is aero and no off-throttle time through the center of the corner, not corner entry speed.
 
BobbyFord said:
The problem is aero and no off-throttle time through the center of the corner, not corner entry speed.
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Again do you remember how important clean air was with less downforce? It’s essentially the equivalent of having DRS in F1
 
If the racers in the classes you're talking about (Indy cars, and the top three NASCAR classes) are truly professionals, they should be able to handle catching and passing slower cars. They've even got spotters to help them!

Both sanctioning bodies already black flag cars that are too slow, and most professional drivers know how to (and do) get out of the way.

If the back-markers aren't out there, they're not gaining experience so they won't get faster. Today's hero teams were usually yesterday's back-markers. Today's heroes won't stay fast forever, and will retire. If you don't allow the back-marker teams to stay on track and gain experience, you also hold back tomorrow's hero teams... or you create shorter fields with more and more cars piloted by racers with more money than anything else (and the show suffers).

Again, not saying leave the slowpokes out there - use the minimum speed rules already in place. But if you make it too hard for new teams to gain the experience they need to eventually run up front, you'll just cull your fields. Any driver who cannot deal with slower cars is not as talented as he thinks he is.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Again do you remember how important clean air was with less downforce? It’s essentially the equivalent of having DRS in F1
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I thought he was describing the high HP/Low downforce package to a T. :) It doesn't work that well on the 1.5's and it isn't going to change this year anyway.
 
BobbyFord said:
No.
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Sure it is. I’ll never forget a few years back when Larson lost the Coke 600 to Brad in heartbreaking fashion. Was beat off a pit stop after dominating the race, Brad got the clean air off the stop and was gone to the checkers
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Sure it is. I’ll never forget a few years back when Larson lost the Coke 600 to Brad in heartbreaking fashion. Was beat off a pit stop after dominating the race, Brad got the clean air off the stop and was gone to the checkers
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That was also due to tire pressure and grille tape adjustments, among others. Clean air is just as, if not more, important with the high downforce package due to lack of off-throttle time.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Sure it is. I’ll never forget a few years back when Larson lost the Coke 600 to Brad in heartbreaking fashion. Was beat off a pit stop after dominating the race, Brad got the clean air off the stop and was gone to the checkers
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No. It wasn’t heartbreaking.
 
gone said:
If the racers in the classes you're talking about (Indy cars, and the top three NASCAR classes) are truly professionals, they should be able to handle catching and passing slower cars. They've even got spotters to help them!

Both sanctioning bodies already black flag cars that are too slow, and most professional drivers know how to (and do) get out of the way.

If the back-markers aren't out there, they're not gaining experience so they won't get faster. Today's hero teams were usually yesterday's back-markers. Today's heroes won't stay fast forever, and will retire. If you don't allow the back-marker teams to stay on track and gain experience, you also hold back tomorrow's hero teams... or you create shorter fields with more and more cars piloted by racers with more money than anything else (and the show suffers).

Again, not saying leave the slowpokes out there - use the minimum speed rules already in place. But if you make it too hard for new teams to gain the experience they need to eventually run up front, you'll just cull your fields. Any driver who cannot deal with slower cars is not as talented as he thinks he is.
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NASCAR Cup Series.

The backmarkers that we're discussing upping the requirements on, are not going to get faster (that's the problem), they are simply taking advantage of a generous minimum speed set by nascar, that nascar themselves have the ability to adjust at their discretion. (also charter system as mentioned above)

New teams that are putting forth effort to make gain (ie Trackhouse) are unlikely to be affected because they're already fast enough. Not saying make it that hard that new money can't come in. Not saying driver's shouldn't be able to navigate them, but geesh bump it a tad. Too much closing rate can become a safety issue as well.

There could even be a grace period if they're truly a first year team looking to get up to speed, with current min speed standard, then graduate to a speed level showing progress.

Half a season to the new car which will change the game anyhow, so just spinning my wheels ;)
 
RacerrecaR said:
That was also due to tire pressure and grille tape adjustments, among others. Clean air is just as, if not more, important with the high downforce package due to lack of off-throttle time.
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uh no, passing stats have been higher overall and so has ratings. That package isn't going anywhere on the 1.5's
 
I think we should have an F1 style rule, where every car on track must make a lap that is within a 107% margin of the pole sitters average 2 lap qualifying time, or they will not be allowed to participate in the race
 
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