Should NASCAR increase minimum speed?

Turtle84

lost a step
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
3,128
Points
293
Location
The Pacific
As your resident "turtle", I think it is only fair that I get to ask this question. And, in light of our backmarker runnings into by our x2 champion, "holding their line in multiple events" it seems a topic to go under review. The closing rate may be too much to handle. Is this helping NASCAR retain field size by allowing sponsors the lowest possible spending to achieve rolling billboard speed?
 

Team Penske

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
6,166
Points
643
As your resident "turtle", I think it is only fair that I get to ask this question. And, in light of our backmarker runnings into by our x2 champion, "holding their line in multiple events" it seems a topic to go under review. The closing rate may be too much to handle. Is this helping NASCAR retain field size by allowing sponsors the lowest possible spending to achieve rolling billboard speed?
The minimum speed should be a moving target during the race calculated in relation to the 25th place car. The one thing that gets me the most is when a slow car tries to drive in the leaders lane. Any car 1 or more laps down must drive on the bottom lane ONLY. If the driver is unable to do this then black flag the rolling piece of junk because he sure isn't racing.
 

KTMLew01

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
1,787
Points
243
Less cars. 30 seems like plenty. There's probably enough sponsor money out there fro 30 fully competitive teams. It's NOT 1980.
 

Turtle84

lost a step
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
3,128
Points
293
Location
The Pacific
Seems they looked at it going into 2018, steveod was on the case. Can't find much else, as far as evidence to the speed gap increasing this year (seemed like it though), I think the passing difficulty exaggerated the role traffic played.

https://racingnews.co/2017/11/06/nascar-minimum-speed/

[QUOTE
“We take a percentage off the practice speeds. We can tweak that. It’s communicated to the garage in the drivers’ meeting and then on the radio from David Hoots on a Sunday, prior to the race. The spotters all know, the teams know as well.”

“We can play with that percentage, potentially and tighten that up a little bit. We have a pretty lenient policy right now. It’s something that’s worked for us.”
][/QUOTE]
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,451
Points
343
The lack of cautions the last few years has REALLY exposed just how far off the leader's pace some of these cars are. Because you didn't see it for so many years, I am still sort of shocked at how fast some of these cars are getting 5+ laps down. It sort of reminds me of my ARCA days when you could lose a lap every 10 on a short track and still meet minimum speed. I don't really claim to know how much faster these cars COULD go, but it seems like time to tighten the field up a little.
 

SpeedPagan

The iRacing Guru
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
16,837
Points
1,033
I say if they impede the faster cars by not getting out of the way, they should be black flagged and parked.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,451
Points
343
I say if they impede the faster cars by not getting out of the way, they should be black flagged and parked.
Who gets to define that loose definition though? Sometimes for those laps down cars its a no win situation. No matter where they try to run, somebody will lay claim to that lane and blame them for getting in the way.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
43,780
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
The minimum speed is set by a percentage and it varies from track to track like Aunty has said. Nascar has a move over flag that they display to slower cars when faster cars are closing. Both slower and faster cars have spotters, maybe they need lane departure buzzers and stop sensors like they are using on street cars these days to keep distracted drivers from killing the rest of us who are paying attention.
 

Team Penske

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
6,166
Points
643
Maybe set the minimum at 10-15% of the pole speed.
Even the leader can't do that sometimes. May I suggest the speed be regulated
and reflect the last car on the lead lap. Slower cars are only a problem when the driver is trying to keep his car in the camera frame of the leaders. Don't give them a choice, they must stay on the bottom of the track even if they have to slow down to do it while being passed. Of course if your on the lead lap then just adopt Newman's style.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
43,780
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
There is something to be said about maintaining minimum speed for safety reasons.
It's a lap timing thing and when a car falls below that time they are black flagged contrary to what some believe who think Nascar leaves them out there. It's part of the sport of racing. I always am bewildered and wonder how many races a fan has watched when I hear them acting indignant about slower traffic, maybe it comes from an artificial situation like a video game, heck if I know.
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
21,989
Points
883
There is something to be said about maintaining minimum speed for safety reasons.
Agreed. The rule should be, and usually is enforced.

My reference was to the drivers up at the pointy end, some of who complain about this having never driven even a mediocre car.
 

AuzGrams

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
3,443
Points
343
Has this ever been a serious issue among the drivers besides Kyle's typical complaining at LVMS?

The less backmarkers there are, the less amount of cautions there are, and I know there's a lot of people that get sick/bored of strung out racing.
 

Ventisca

Team Owner
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
2,569
Points
293
The less backmarkers there are, the less amount of cautions there are, and I know there's a lot of people that get sick/bored of strung out racing.
Each Charter car team gets one Timeout "Caution" a season, called by the Crew Chief -- hits a button and a lighted siren goes off on his Pit Box. Maybe the spotter wears a flashing suit for night races that also activates.

Like the stick and ball gimmick to Ice the kicker except for NASCAR trickery and strategy. Turn it more into the gameshow of motorsports.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
43,780
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Every ten laps Nascar black flags the slowest backmarker, that will attract more gamers to the sport who are familiar with the knock out style. NBC will love it because it's similar to the cut off drivers in the playoffs. The gerbils can focus the race on the slowest cars.
 

Greg

2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
15,143
Points
883
There is something to be said about maintaining minimum speed for safety reasons.
The current rules should work. If they are laps down and making no effort to work with the leaders they can call them to the hauler.

But lapped traffic is a good thing imo. It means the green has been out a few laps. It is also adds a variable for the leader to manage.
I also believe back markers have a right to exist, and to run their programs. It is a part of driver development. I do not think any of them go out there with the intention of causing problems.
I also do not want to see car counts reduced any more than that have.
Nor do I want the field reduced down to a half dozen owners and their proxies or satellites.
 

be9ak7ts16

Johali Lives
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
15,076
Points
1,033
Location
Upper Michigan
Even the leader can't do that sometimes. May I suggest the speed be regulated
and reflect the last car on the lead lap. Slower cars are only a problem when the driver is trying to keep his car in the camera frame of the leaders. Don't give them a choice, they must stay on the bottom of the track even if they have to slow down to do it while being passed. Of course if your on the lead lap then just adopt Newman's style.
Go 20%. Pole speed is somewhere around 195, 20% of that is 29mph. The pack is usually running a bit faster than the pole speed, coming up on a car doing 165 is a bit dangerous, especially if he’s not paying attention.
 

LARRY

Stages! Stages! We don't need no stinking stages!!
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
410
Points
223
Do it Australian pursuit style. You're passed by the leader, you're out.
 

Turtle84

lost a step
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
3,128
Points
293
Location
The Pacific
Each Charter car team gets one Timeout "Caution" a season, called by the Crew Chief -- hits a button and a lighted siren goes off on his Pit Box. Maybe the spotter wears a flashing suit for night races that also activates.

Like the stick and ball gimmick to Ice the kicker except for NASCAR trickery and strategy. Turn it more into the gameshow of motorsports.
Lol o m g
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,451
Points
343
That sounds like there shouldn't be a minimum speed at all.
I don't disagree with what Spotter said, but at the same time you don't want people out there that aren't even making a pretense of competing. One of the main reasons I got out of racing was that I didn't want to be a part of that. I can deal with losing. I can't deal with not trying. I understand why those that do it do it, but leave me out.
 

gone

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
594
Points
223
Each Charter car team gets one Timeout "Caution" a season, called by the Crew Chief -- hits a button and a lighted siren goes off on his Pit Box. Maybe the spotter wears a flashing suit for night races that also activates.

Like the stick and ball gimmick to Ice the kicker except for NASCAR trickery and strategy. Turn it more into the gameshow of motorsports.
Now sure how practical that would be. If a team hits their Timeout button does that mean everybody else has to pit too? If so, a race could have 40 cautions just for Timeouts alone (worst case, if everybody decided to do this in the same race)... if not, then by taking a Timeout you're still losing distance to the cars still on the track - you can do that already without a Timeout.
 

gone

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
594
Points
223
just park the last 5 cars at the end of each stage.
You would be upset if your car has a fixable problem, like a flat tire, that puts it in the last five at the end of a stage - even though it was a competitive car up until then.
 

gone

Team Owner
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
594
Points
223
In my opinion, for what little it's worth, a driver who cannot pass a backmarker without having problems is not such a good driver. Even on a one groove track since all of the tracks are more than one car wide. Yeah it can be tough, but in the Cup Series you're supposed to be tough and capable.

It doesn't take being off on setup by very much, or much minor damage, to slow you enough to be at the back these days. Cup races are long, and good teams can usually figure out how to get their cars back up to speed over the course of a long race. Let them have the opportunity to do so.

NASCAR does do a pretty good job of issuing the move-over flag, and drivers who expect to earn any respect are pretty good at heeding it. But the slower drivers and teams need the laps in order to learn how to become fast, so don't curtail that effort just because they might get in the way of a hero driver. It's part of racing. The really slow or dangerous drivers will get black flagged.
 

Ventisca

Team Owner
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
2,569
Points
293
Now sure how practical that would be. If a team hits their Timeout button does that mean everybody else has to pit too? If so, a race could have 40 cautions just for Timeouts alone (worst case, if everybody decided to do this in the same race)... if not, then by taking a Timeout you're still losing distance to the cars still on the track - you can do that already without a Timeout.
You missed two clues and at least three points -- and if you understood the main point, the others are irrelevant. :)
 

Ventisca

Team Owner
Joined
Dec 3, 2018
Messages
2,569
Points
293
NASCAR does do a pretty good job of issuing the move-over flag, and drivers who expect to earn any respect are pretty good at heeding it. But the slower drivers and teams need the laps in order to learn how to become fast, so don't curtail that effort just because they might get in the way of a hero driver. It's part of racing. The really slow or dangerous drivers will get black flagged.
Agreed.

And the love and hate of Cautions, bump-and-run, wreck-and-win, pit road penalties, move-over flag, etc. appear to be embraced and based on team/driver loyalty, emotion, and situational bias --

all of which make my NASCAR experience both frustrating and enjoyable.
 
Top Bottom