Should the drivers know where the scoring loops are?

Should the drivers know where the scoring loops are on pit road?

  • Yes; they should know so they maintain pit road speed.

    Votes: 13 52.0%

  • No; they should not know where they can get away with speeding.

    Votes: 12 48.0%
  • Total voters
    25
dpkimmel2001 said:
Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s solution to managing it was simple, too: Go slow.

"They just told me about it and said be careful, so I was extra careful," he said. "I was probably ridiculously slow coming onto pit road, but I just don't want to get popped. I get burned on TV and by the fan base whenever we do anything stupid on pit road such as miss our stall. That takes me about a year and half to get over in a lot of people's eyes, so I can't make too many mistakes on pit road."
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Common sense stuff there.

Don't speed and you won't get caught. Just like on the highway, if you're going 9 mph and hoping not to get a ticket, don't complain when you do. If you don't want a speeding ticket, don't speed. More than half the drivers in the field didn't have this problem.
 
Sport , by definition , is about taking it to the limit . Team sport is about each team member contributing all that he can .
 
FenderBumper said:
Funny how nascar's new maps didn't work either. JJ said he waited until his rear bumper passed the pit exit painted line before speeding up, but he still got a penalty. Since I trust JJ and Chad's professionalism more than I do NASCAR and the track, I'm going with a misplaced pit exit line or transponder loop and not retarded CC's and drivers.
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LOL...you "trust" JJ and Chad's professionalism, are you being sarcastic?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Common sense stuff there.

Don't speed and you won't get caught. Just like on the highway, if you're going 9 mph and hoping not to get a ticket, don't complain when you do. If you don't want a speeding ticket, don't speed. More than half the drivers in the field didn't have this problem.
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Exploiting tolerances is a fundamental part of racing.
A game of inches makes a centerline target useless for building and running the cars.



It's a race if 60 mph gets you a penalty 59,9999 mph becomes the goal. If you think a particular loop can be exploited, it is not a choice, your team needs you to compliment their fast pit work. That means if you can hit 75 after the jacks drop in the same loop with no penalty , you must.
If that's not a drivers mission he is in the wrong business.


That's not just racing common sense, it is a racing basic.



While NASCAR is technically correct, they could have stressed the changes emphatically in the drivers meeting, especially understanding the racing mentality.
Of course I wasn't at the meeting, but it is doubtful when it happens 22 times, or when a record is set.



It just looks like both sides NASCAR and the competitors both could planned better. Stuff happens and that's life, hopefully lessons were learned by both sides.
Thankfully it happened early enough to allow most to lucky dog or wave around, and minimize the damages.
 
Greg said:
Exploiting tolerances is a fundamental part of racing.
A game of inches makes a centerline target useless for building and running the cars.



It's a race if 60 mph gets you a penalty 59,9999 mph becomes the goal. If you think a particular loop can be exploited, it is not a choice, your team needs you to compliment their fast pit work. That means if you can hit 75 after the jacks drop in the same loop with no penalty , you must.
If that's not a drivers mission he is in the wrong business.


That's not just racing common sense, it is a racing basic.



While NASCAR is technically correct, they could have stressed the changes emphatically in the drivers meeting, especially understanding the racing mentality.
Of course I wasn't at the meeting, but it is doubtful when it happens 22 times, or when a record is set.



It just looks like both sides NASCAR and the competitors both could planned better. Stuff happens and that's life, hopefully lessons were learned by both sides.
Thankfully it happened early enough to allow most to lucky dog or wave around, and minimize the damages.
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No other sport has these types of grey areas. And, in any other sport, if a player was caught cheating, the pundits would not call for the rule to be changed or blame it on the sanctioning body. Yes, pushing the limit is part of the sport. But, if you get caught, you've got to deal with it. Instead, people are blaming NASCAR.

And I don't think the drivers are entitled to know where all the loops are. It's a luxury they enjoy and exploit and that's fine. But, in the case, the drivers and teams were clearly in the wrong and they got busted. It's not NASCAR's fault and NASCAR really doesn't owe the teams ****.
 
As for Pocono, there's nothing to debate. This isn't about whether drivers were speeding between loops (which is still against the rules, just not enforcable)... this is about drivers getting busted for speeding.

To me, it's like the NFL bounty stuff and the Saints paying players to injure other players. Everyone in the NFL knows this is going on with other teams. The NFL knows it's going on. But they were able to prove what the Saints were doing and lowered the boom. Should the NFL just forgive the Saints, repeal their penalties and allow it because other teams have gotten away with it?

NASCAR drivers push the limit on pit road. There is a rule, the drivers found a loophole and have exploited it for years. This time, they were busted in large numbers. I really don't think it's NASCAR's problem. The teams have two options, obey the rule next time or continue to try to exploit the loophole and risk getting caught. All the whining Jimmie Johnson did after the race..... he broke the rules and got penalized, period.
 
And, as far as pushing the limits, yes it's what drivers have always done. But NASCAR is the only sport in the world that basically tells teams how they can get away with breaking the rules. They hand out these pit road maps and basically continue to allow drivers to speed in between the loops -- even tough the speed limit was a rule enacted as a response to a crew member being killed on pit road.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Really? What about every other sport where lying to the umpires and referees to get a favorable call is constant throughout each event?
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Nine times out of ten, they also make the right call. By the end of a baseball season, I can count how many times the refs made errors on one hand. Their rules are also black and white. They don't sit here and say, "here's the grey area, go ahead and play in it".

I wish law enforcement gave me a map, every morning, of where they would be conducting speed traps and what times.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
No other sport has these types of grey areas. And, in any other sport, if a player was caught cheating, the pundits would not call for the rule to be changed or blame it on the sanctioning body. Yes, pushing the limit is part of the sport. But, if you get caught, you've got to deal with it. Instead, people are blaming NASCAR.

And I don't think the drivers are entitled to know where all the loops are. It's a luxury they enjoy and exploit and that's fine. But, in the case, the drivers and teams were clearly in the wrong and they got busted. It's not NASCAR's fault and NASCAR really doesn't owe the teams ****.
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Too easy, umpire strike zones are subjective. Pass interference calls in the NFL can be very "Grey".


Pushing tolerances isn't a "Nascar" thing it is a racing thing. NASCAR is no different, if they don't tech, check or monitor you do it, a concept easily grasped even in junior aged stock go cart racing all the way to F1 defusers.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
There is room to argue. If you're speeding on pit road, that's that. The problem is the drivers know where the scoring loops are and are speeding between the loops. This time, they were caught and in large numbers.
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lol You don't even know what you're talking about. The speeding you are talking about occurs ONLY in the loop where your pit box is, NOT at the end of pit road for all those drivers that were nailed Sunday. Yeeesh dude.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Nine times out of ten, they also make the right call. By the end of a baseball season, I can count how many times the refs made errors on one hand. Their rules are also black and white. They don't sit here and say, "here's the grey area, go ahead and play in it".

I wish law enforcement gave me a map, every morning, of where they would be conducting speed traps and what times.
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I wish law inforcement in your neighborhood refused to post where one limit ends and another begins. Than we would hear some real crying.
 
FenderBumper said:
lol You don't even know what you're talking about. The speeding you are talking about occurs ONLY in the loop where your pit box is, NOT at the end of pit road for all those drivers that were nailed Sunday. Yeeesh dude.
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In addition to speeding in their own pit area , the thing that got them in trouble was acceleration after they cross the final loop. Naturally when you reach the 'end speed zone ' sign ,you want to put the pedal to the floor. That instant , Jimmy said when his front bumper crossed the line , is where they were having the most trouble . They were gassing it a foot or two too early because of the outdated info that they were using . So ,Andy , it had nothing to do with the radar traps , but it had to do with the placement of the 'end speed zone ' sign.
 
With the track, including pit road, being repaved, the teams should have gone out of their way to know where the timing lines are. Then again, if they wouldn't cheat the system, this might not be a problem either.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
This debate brought to you by NASCAR racing, the only sport in the world that encourages cheating.
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But in Baseball players are encouraged to STEAL - which is against one of the Ten Commandments, if I am not mistaken...

AndyMarquisLive said:
No other sport has these types of grey areas..
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Do you ever watch NBA Games? Charge or Block is pretty grey...

As for speeding on PIT ROAD: I think that there should be 20 to 25 scoring loops on every Pit Road. Any 10 of them would be active at any time and the active loops would be changed at random intervals throughout the duration of the race. The teams would be told where the loops are, but they would never know which were active at any given time. That would make it so that NOBODY EFFEN KNOWS where they can goose the throttle and where they have to apply the brakes.
 
robbybee said:
As for speeding on PIT ROAD: I think that there should be 20 to 25 scoring loops on every Pit Road. Any 10 of them would be active at any time and the active loops would be changed at random intervals throughout the duration of the race. The teams would be told where the loops are, but they would never know which were active at any given time. That would make it so that NOBODY EFFEN KNOWS where they can goose the throttle and where they have to apply the brakes.
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I like that.
 
robbybee said:
But in Baseball players are encouraged to STEAL - which is against one of the Ten Commandments, if I am not mistaken...



Do you ever watch NBA Games? Charge or Block is pretty grey...

As for speeding on PIT ROAD: I think that there should be 20 to 25 scoring loops on every Pit Road. Any 10 of them would be active at any time and the active loops would be changed at random intervals throughout the duration of the race. The teams would be told where the loops are, but they would never know which were active at any given time. That would make it so that NOBODY EFFEN KNOWS where they can goose the throttle and where they have to apply the brakes.
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No, I don't watch NBA basketbore.

And stealing bases isn't against baseball rules. Besides, Kurt Busch Radio Sweetheart breaks one of the ten commandments each time he's in his car.

I like your scoring loop idea. :)
 
I think that speeding anywhere on pit road should not be allowed and I don't care if it's Kenseth, Keselowski, Gordon or the Pope. It's a safety issue and safety should come first.

I'm sure they can put something in each and every race car that will allow Nascar to monitor their speeds.
 
#17D500winner said:
I think that speeding anywhere on pit road should not be allowed and I don't care if it's Kenseth, Keselowski, Gordon or the Pope. It's a safety issue and safety should come first.

I'm sure they can put something in each and every race car that will allow Nascar to monitor their speeds.
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It's not as simple as just a limiter. The way it is now, there are 2 and sometimes 3 lanes into pit road. Cars entering are suposed to line up in the outside lane, then turn in 3 pit boxes before their pit. With scoring loops, they are free to accelerate to clear a car coming out of their pit and avoid a collision. They wouldn't be able to do that using a limiter, so pit lanes would need to be narrowed to 1.

Nascar could go to the one lane in, one lane out setup of V8 supercars, along with a pit road limiter. Then there are strict yield rules to sort out who gives way to who when there is a conflict between a car in the lane and a car exiting a pit box.
 
This wasn't even an issue before last week. The rules seem to already work just fine. Some teams didn't do their homework last week and they paid for it. They can easily perform their duties on pit road without speeding but they will always push the limit. It doesn't bother me in the slightest to see them try to gain an advantage getting into our out of their pits. My vote would go towards keeping things as they are. Change doesn't always make things better.
 
VaDirt said:
Really Andy?
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You don't have to watch basketball to know who Lebron James is. :rolleyes: Watch NBC Sports Network or ESPN for five minutes and you'd know everything there is to know about him. In five minutes of SportsCenter, I've heard him say he and his two buddies on the Miami Heat (don't even know who they are) are the 1927 New York Yankees and that they're the greatest thing in sports history. I also know who Jeremy Lin is when ESPN had their "Linsanity" (which involved, mentioning him every 2.5 seconds and finding a way to talk about him during baseball and NASCAR highlights) as well Chris Paul.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
You don't have to watch basketball to know who Lebron James is. :rolleyes: Watch NBC Sports Network or ESPN for five minutes and you'd know everything there is to know about him. In five minutes of SportsCenter, I've heard him say he and his two buddies on the Miami Heat (don't even know who they are) are the 1927 New York Yankees and that they're the greatest thing in sports history. I also know who Jeremy Lin is when ESPN had their "Linsanity" (which involved, mentioning him every 2.5 seconds and finding a way to talk about him during baseball and NASCAR highlights) as well Chris Paul.
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But if you don't watch basketball, why are you even replying in a basketball thread? Ahh, nevermind.
 
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