Silly Season 2024

cheesepuffs said:
You know, you may actually be onto something here.

Briscoe's dream was to drive for Tony, but Briscoe has also been a Ford driver this whole time, and Ford has taken care of him. I wonder if Ford Performance pulls the strings to get Briscoe the 21, keeping him in the Ford camp and sells it to him that Penske is a better opportunity than sticking with the sinking ship that is SHR.

In that case yeah, Preece and Berry together through the rebuilding phase at SHR, and both of those guys are going to have fairly low Cup salaries so it makes sense for the team to keep them on. They'll still have Mobil 1 and probably Rush Truck Centers to keep one car going, and continue the Haas branding on the other with maybe some appearances from Bass Pro thrown into the mix too. Tony and Berry both have a relationship with Bass Pro, so that seems probable that we'd see Berry with some support from them in Cup even a few races a year.

My knee-jerk reaction initially was that Briscoe would stay with SHR, no brainer, but I could see it going the other way. I think his heart would say stick with Tony but his brain would say go with Ford. Tough choice if it comes down to that.
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What if SHR sees value in some reduction of cars for improved focus and performance? I could envision them selling just one charter (the 10) so they could keep Briscoe in the fold. 23XI switches to Ford and Hambone takes that car OR they bring in Smith while the Hamster stays with pappy Joe. Likewise Jordan could acquire a fourth charter from another source to give them 4, allowing Hamshank to take the 10.

If any of this happens in whatever version it will be quite the shakeup.
 
Let's say Denny leaves JGR and then JHN is basically the guaranteed pick to fill that slot.

Then who gets the nod for the 42? There aren't really any other Toyota pipeline drivers that are ready for Cup imo, especially when you consider that if Toyota loses Reddick and Hamlin then they'll be wanting a seriously competitive driver in the 42 to help make up the difference in their Cup driver talent pool. Trouble is, there's almost no Cup veterans up for grabs right now, and the program isn't proven enough yet to secure a big name probably anyway. Looks like Erik Jones is going to be carrying that team for awhile longer.

I gotta say, the biggest loser in all of this if the 23XI to Ford move really happens is Toyota. Last year they lost KBM and their truck series presence took a nosedive. They just secured LMC to expand their presence in the Cup series, desiring a higher car count in the field, and they may be losing two cars as quickly as they gained two, so that's a wash but with the added kicker of losing one of their star veterans in the process (Denny is the second winningest Toyota driver in Cup to Kyle Busch, correct?) and then they'll also be even further behind the competition on car count because the two remaining SHR cars will become Chevys again while the Ford total car count will remain the same.
 
Conover said:
What if SHR sees value in some reduction of cars for improved focus and performance? I could envision them selling just one charter (the 10) so they could keep Briscoe in the fold. 23XI switches to Ford and Hambone takes that car OR they bring in Smith while the Hamster stays with pappy Joe. Likewise Jordan could acquire a fourth charter from another source to give them 4, allowing Hamshank to take the 10.

If any of this happens in whatever version it will be quite the shakeup.
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I think 100% SHR sees value in reducing their car count to refocus their efforts, I think that's gotta be why they're entertaining these discussions to begin with.

One thing with what you said: There's no way Ford is going to align with 23XI while Denny is also driving a Gibbs Toyota. Hamlin is going to have to get a Ford ride if 23XI makes the switch. It would seem right now that 23XI buys both SHR charters up for grabs, giving Hamlin a seat as well as Zane. Keep in mind, 23XI has a brand new building going up right now that is intended to accommodate expansion of the team. Ford is probably like a shark to blood on that.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Let's say Denny leaves JGR and then JHN is basically the guaranteed pick to fill that slot.

Then who gets the nod for the 42? There aren't really any other Toyota pipeline drivers that are ready for Cup imo, especially when you consider that if Toyota loses Reddick and Hamlin then they'll be wanting a seriously competitive driver in the 42 to help make up the difference in their Cup driver talent pool. Trouble is, there's almost no Cup veterans up for grabs right now, and the program isn't proven enough yet to secure a big name probably anyway. Looks like Erik Jones is going to be carrying that team for awhile longer.

I gotta say, the biggest loser in all of this if the 23XI to Ford move really happens is Toyota. Last year they lost KBM and their truck series presence took a nosedive. They just secured LMC to expand their presence in the Cup series, desiring a higher car count in the field, and they may be losing two cars as quickly as they gained two, so that's a wash but with the added kicker of losing one of their star veterans in the process (Denny is the second winningest Toyota driver in Cup to Kyle Busch, correct?) and then they'll also be even further behind the competition on car count because the two remaining SHR cars will become Chevys again while the Ford total car count will remain the same.
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On the flip side, the biggest winner would be LMC. They jump up the Toyota totem pool if 23XI leaves Toyota.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Will Smith come to Toyota? Otherwise, would Ford or Toyota be happy with Denny driving for one and owning for another?
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I don’t think they would like that, and frankly I don’t see Hamscram staying with the preacher if his team goes to Ford. Heck, why doesn’t he just go drive for his own team? He should want to do that, and needs to IMO. His parlaying two manufacturers and multiple ownership groups around his future contract cannot be what NASCAR wants happening. As a previous commenter said, Toyota would be the biggest loser in all of this. THATS why Hamvarmit is twisting them like a pretzel.
 
Conover said:
I don’t think they would like that, and frankly I don’t see Hamscram staying with the preacher if his team goes to Ford. Heck, why doesn’t he just go drive for his own team? He should want to do that, and needs to IMO. His parlaying two manufacturers and multiple ownership groups around his future contract cannot be what NASCAR wants happening. As a previous commenter said, Toyota would be the biggest loser in all of this. THATS why Hamvarmit is twisting them like a pretzel.
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In Hamlin's mind he is doin nuthin wrong to nobody here, but everybody is doin him wrong. Just like when he is on the track!
 
There’s no way Hamlin drives for one manufacturer while owning a team for another one. If Denny switches, 23XI switches too.

Which again begs the question, what does Denny gain from this? Penske is the top dog team, RFK is recovering, and SHR is out to lunch. Penske isn’t hiring Dennis and RFK isn’t expanding so he would have to buy a charter and race for himself.

One interesting player is WBR. it’d be cool to see Virginia’s Denny Hamlin drive for Stuart, Virginia’s WBR.
 
The Nature Boy said:
There’s no way Hamlin drives for one manufacturer while owning a team for another one. If Denny switches, 23XI switches too.

Which again begs the question, what does Denny gain from this? Penske is the top dog team, RFK is recovering, and SHR is out to lunch. Penske isn’t hiring Dennis and RFK isn’t expanding so he would have to buy a charter and race for himself.

One interesting player is WBR. it’d be cool to see Virginia’s Denny Hamlin drive for Stuart, Virginia’s WBR.
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What does he gain? He has a few years left in him for driving, but he has the rest of his life ahead of him as a team owner. He gains his own business going from two or four cars overnight, to fill up his big new facility they're building right now. They have a beautiful new shop coming, they're invested heavily into the future of this team and if Ford can get them to powerhouse status before TRD can, then he's looking out for the future of 23XI right now.

His future endeavors as an owner will only stayed hinged to Gibbs as long as it can be advantageous for 23XI. It's a business first and foremost.
 
NascarUnderdogs said:
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Well that's a shame, it seems like a lot of teams are seeing a decrease value in having a truck team. I can't really blame them with how many trucks get torn up on any given weekend in the past couple of seasons.

Also, it may need to happen as LMC may need to double down on the Cup program.
cheesepuffs said:
Let's say Denny leaves JGR and then JHN is basically the guaranteed pick to fill that slot.

Then who gets the nod for the 42? There aren't really any other Toyota pipeline drivers that are ready for Cup imo, especially when you consider that if Toyota loses Reddick and Hamlin then they'll be wanting a seriously competitive driver in the 42 to help make up the difference in their Cup driver talent pool. Trouble is, there's almost no Cup veterans up for grabs right now, and the program isn't proven enough yet to secure a big name probably anyway. Looks like Erik Jones is going to be carrying that team for awhile longer.

I gotta say, the biggest loser in all of this if the 23XI to Ford move really happens is Toyota. Last year they lost KBM and their truck series presence took a nosedive. They just secured LMC to expand their presence in the Cup series, desiring a higher car count in the field, and they may be losing two cars as quickly as they gained two, so that's a wash but with the added kicker of losing one of their star veterans in the process (Denny is the second winningest Toyota driver in Cup to Kyle Busch, correct?) and then they'll also be even further behind the competition on car count because the two remaining SHR cars will become Chevys again while the Ford total car count will remain the same.
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The biggest issue in the Toyota camp right now is Joe Gibbs, not JGR, Joe "I'm a saved man" Gibbs himself. We already saw him **** over Furniture Row Racing when they won the 2017 Championship in JGR equipment. I guess that really bruised Joe's fragile ego.

I'd imagine 23XI is looking at Ford because Joe is pulling the same bull**** with 23XI that he pulled with FRR.

Sooner or later, Toyota is going to have to realize that Joe Gibbs is poisoning the well and if they want to stay in NASCAR, JGR needs to stop being Toyota's gatekeeper in the Cup series.
 
with all this bs, i glad i only cheer for drivers no matter want brand they drive for. it sure makes live easier. all of hms, bell,svg.and any first time winners.
 
cheesepuffs said:
What does he gain? He has a few years left in him for driving, but he has the rest of his life ahead of him as a team owner. He gains his own business going from two or four cars overnight, to fill up his big new facility they're building right now. They have a beautiful new shop coming, they're invested heavily into the future of this team and if Ford can get them to powerhouse status before TRD can, then he's looking out for the future of 23XI right now.

His future endeavors as an owner will only stayed hinged to Gibbs as long as it can be advantageous for 23XI. It's a business first and foremost.
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If Dennis were done as a driver, I would agree with you but Dennis is still looking for his first championship and I see him balancing his goals as an owner with his final goals as a driver. Does Ford give him a good shot at a championship? Only if he's in a Penske car (and WBR likely counts for this). RFK isn't there yet and I don't think 23XI would be there within a year of going to Ford. I don't think Dennis has enough years left as a driver to wait out a team becoming competitive. Based on what we know, I think keeping the status quo is the best option for balancing both of Dennis's competing interests. But obviously there are things that I'm not privy to regarding what Ford can offer him and 23XI.

Maybe Dennis is starting to look beyond his own career and solely focusing on the future of 23XI...
 
The Nature Boy said:
If Dennis were done as a driver, I would agree with you but Dennis is still looking for his first championship and I see him balancing his goals as an owner with his final goals as a driver. Does Ford give him a good shot at a championship? Only if he's in a Penske car (and WBR likely counts for this). RFK isn't there yet and I don't think 23XI would be there within a year of going to Ford. I don't think Dennis has enough years left as a driver to wait out a team becoming competitive. Based on what we know, I think keeping the status quo is the best option for balancing both of Dennis's competing interests. But obviously there are things that I'm not privy to regarding what Ford can offer him and 23XI.

Maybe Dennis is starting to look beyond his own career and solely focusing on the future of 23XI...
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Why not both? Look at what Brad has done balancing both driving and owning, and elevating that team. Denny would have even more influence of 23XI if he were driving their own setups every weekend and being directly connected to the on-track execution. The organization would only get better with him. If they can also get better funding or more sim time for instance with Ford than Toyota, then that elevates them even further. He apparently wants them to be a champion contending team by year five and they're in year three right now, so maybe he sees what Brad is doing and thinks that taking it into his own hands more is a good move. Who knows.

I won't be surprised with either outcome, of status quo or of a big shakeup with Ford. Both make sense for different reasons.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Why not both? Look at what Brad has done balancing both driving and owning, and elevating that team. Denny would have even more influence of 23XI if he were driving their own setups every weekend and being directly connected to the on-track execution. The organization would only get better with him. If they can also get better funding or more sim time for instance with Ford than Toyota, then that elevates them even further. He apparently wants them to be a champion contending team by year five and they're in year three right now, so maybe he sees what Brad is doing and thinks that taking it into his own hands more is a good move. Who knows.

I won't be surprised with either outcome, of status quo or of a big shakeup with Ford. Both make sense for different reasons.
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Possible but Denny also has more miles on him than Brad. He's also four years older. Brad still hasn't won with RFK and it looks like it might take at least 3 seasons to get there (I think he'll win next year). Does Denny have that much time left?

Maybe Denny jumps into a 23XI Ford and is competitive right away but that's an unknown. We at least know that Denny is competitive with JGR.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Possible but Denny also has more miles on him than Brad. He's also four years older. Brad still hasn't won with RFK and it looks like it might take at least 3 seasons to get there (I think he'll win next year). Does Denny have that much time left?

Maybe Denny jumps into a 23XI Ford and is competitive right away but that's an unknown. We at least know that Denny is competitive with JGR.
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23XI is light-years better even in their current state than what Roush was when Brad walked in the door. 23XI is a winning organization with Kurt, Reddick and Bubba all picking up W's, winning as recently as this year. Denny could step into a 23XI ride and be competing for wins right off the bat. When Brad got to Roush in 2022 they hadn't won a race since 2017 if I recall correctly.
 
cheesepuffs said:
23XI is light-years better even in their current state than what Roush was when Brad walked in the door. 23XI is a winning organization with Kurt, Reddick and Bubba all picking up W's, winning as recently as this year. Denny could step into a 23XI ride and be competing for wins right off the bat. When Brad got to Roush in 2022 they hadn't won a race since 2017 if I recall correctly.
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I think the missing variable though is a manufacturer and technical alliance switch. I agree with you if Denny were stepping into a 23XI Toyota with their current technical alliance with JGR. But 23XI is a relatively new team that would have to strike out on their own with a new manufacturer. If 23XI can get an alliance with Penske, I think they'd be pretty good but if not, they'd have a lot of catch up to do. Penske is really the only Ford team that is a consistent contender.

Do I think Denny makes the playoffs in his first year in a 23XI Ford? I think he can certainly point his way in and MAYBE win a race, but I don't think he'd have the consistency necessary to get the playoff points needed to make a run. At this stage in his career, does Denny want to take that gamble? Denny has a better idea of his team's capacity than I do so I trust his judgment.
 
The Nature Boy said:
If Dennis were done as a driver, I would agree with you but Dennis is still looking for his first championship and I see him balancing his goals as an owner with his final goals as a driver. Does Ford give him a good shot at a championship? Only if he's in a Penske car (and WBR likely counts for this). RFK isn't there yet and I don't think 23XI would be there within a year of going to Ford. I don't think Dennis has enough years left as a driver to wait out a team becoming competitive. Based on what we know, I think keeping the status quo is the best option for balancing both of Dennis's competing interests. But obviously there are things that I'm not privy to regarding what Ford can offer him and 23XI.

Maybe Dennis is starting to look beyond his own career and solely focusing on the future of 23XI...
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He has to have accepted by now that he likely will never win a championship not matter how much it bothers him. Coming to peace with that will help him ultimately.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Let's say Denny leaves JGR and then JHN is basically the guaranteed pick to fill that slot.

Then who gets the nod for the 42? There aren't really any other Toyota pipeline drivers that are ready for Cup imo, especially when you consider that if Toyota loses Reddick and Hamlin then they'll be wanting a seriously competitive driver in the 42 to help make up the difference in their Cup driver talent pool. Trouble is, there's almost no Cup veterans up for grabs right now, and the program isn't proven enough yet to secure a big name probably anyway. Looks like Erik Jones is going to be carrying that team for awhile longer.

I gotta say, the biggest loser in all of this if the 23XI to Ford move really happens is Toyota. Last year they lost KBM and their truck series presence took a nosedive. They just secured LMC to expand their presence in the Cup series, desiring a higher car count in the field, and they may be losing two cars as quickly as they gained two, so that's a wash but with the added kicker of losing one of their star veterans in the process (Denny is the second winningest Toyota driver in Cup to Kyle Busch, correct?) and then they'll also be even further behind the competition on car count because the two remaining SHR cars will become Chevys again while the Ford total car count will remain the same.
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Sadly, you are 100% correct in this post. Every syllable. If WE lose Denny and 23XI, it would set US back immeasurably. To say that I am unsettled about Lee Spencer's piece is an understatement.
 
The Nature Boy said:
I think the missing variable though is a manufacturer and technical alliance switch. I agree with you if Denny were stepping into a 23XI Toyota with their current technical alliance with JGR. But 23XI is a relatively new team that would have to strike out on their own with a new manufacturer. If 23XI can get an alliance with Penske, I think they'd be pretty good but if not, they'd have a lot of catch up to do. Penske is really the only Ford team that is a consistent contender.

Do I think Denny makes the playoffs in his first year in a 23XI Ford? I think he can certainly point his way in and MAYBE win a race, but I don't think he'd have the consistency necessary to get the playoff points needed to make a run. At this stage in his career, does Denny want to take that gamble? Denny has a better idea of his team's capacity than I do so I trust his judgment.
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Denny is thinking as much about his post driving days as he is his current situation. This....as they say....is his retirement gig. He has proven to be a savvy businessman IMO.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Why not both? Look at what Brad has done balancing both driving and owning, and elevating that team. Denny would have even more influence of 23XI if he were driving their own setups every weekend and being directly connected to the on-track execution. The organization would only get better with him. If they can also get better funding or more sim time for instance with Ford than Toyota, then that elevates them even further. He apparently wants them to be a champion contending team by year five and they're in year three right now, so maybe he sees what Brad is doing and thinks that taking it into his own hands more is a good move. Who knows.

I won't be surprised with either outcome, of status quo or of a big shakeup with Ford. Both make sense for different reasons.
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Well said. You are on point with your assessment of this situation.....as much as I hate to admit it.
 
Everyone welcome back Casey Mears!
 
Efisher131 said:
I’ve been saying this since it was announced Haley went to RWR
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Isn't he already locked up with Trackhouse basically, even if it is developmental? Though I guess this could be part of his development since the two teams seem to have somewhat of a relationship (Marks did drive for them this year in Xfinity etc).
 
My prediction: Justin Allgaier finally gets a decent Cup ride
 
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