SMT Data

kkfan91

kkfan91

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Here's an off-season discussion. What are your thoughts on the SMT data being used in the sport now?

Personally I think it's becoming an issue. I don't think you should be able to see where other cars are braking, how they are steering or all of that. I think it contributes to poor on track product when you can see what everyone else is doing. It's one thing maybe to have it for your own car, but to have it live for other cars during the race I don't agree with. Denny Hamlin shouldn't be able to get on Twitter and be like see this is what he did punish him! I'm fine with NASCAR themselves having it for their investigative and research purposes. I'd say ban teams from having access to other teams data. In a perfect world teams couldn't use it but I think that ship has sailed.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'll bite, what's SMT data?
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It's the way teams can see where cars are braking, their lines, steering input things like that. When Denny and Chase had their wreck at Charlotte it's what Denny was using to show Chases response.
 
kkfan91 said:
It's the way teams can see where cars are braking, their lines, steering input things like that. When Denny and Chase had their wreck at Charlotte it's what Denny was using to show Chases response.
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Okay, so is your complaint that it provided unfair competitive advantages, or that drivers will get caught with their hands in the cookie jar?

I don't see the problem competitively. The cars aren't similar enough for the detailed data to be interchangeable. The drivers aren't physically capable of exactly reproducing brake points or racing lines. Spotters already provide info that's accurate enough for drivers to use when mimicking each other.

On the other hand, if you don't want to have your data show you hit someone intentionally, don't hit them.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, so is your complaint that it provided unfair competitive advantages, or that drivers will get caught with their hands in the cookie jar?

I don't see the problem competitively. The cars aren't similar enough for the detailed data to be interchangeable. The drivers aren't physically capable of exactly reproducing brake points or racing lines. Spotters already provide info that's accurate enough for drivers to use when mimicking each other.

On the other hand, if you don't want to have your data show you hit someone intentionally, don't hit them.
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I am fine with Nascar officials seeing it. I am not so sure about letting other teams seeing the data. If a driver has a unique braking or throttle application that should be his secret too keep.

But I can confuse myself on this stuff as well. I think some things or skills are like an instinct that you can't teach or coach. Example: people know all about Larsons high line, they probably knew the way Harvick used to drive Phoenix as well. They just couldn't replicate it in spite of the knowledge.
 
Greg said:
I think some things or skills are like an instinct that you can't teach or coach. Example: people know all about Larsons high line, they probably knew the way Harvick used to drive Phoenix as well. They just couldn't replicate it in spite of the knowledge.
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We're all familiar with stories of teams that apply one driver's set up to another's car, only to have the second driver be unable to use it.

Harv had a unique line through 3 and 4 at Darlington but few others could run it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, so is your complaint that it provided unfair competitive advantages, or that drivers will get caught with their hands in the cookie jar?

I don't see the problem competitively. The cars aren't similar enough for the detailed data to be interchangeable. The drivers aren't physically capable of exactly reproducing brake points or racing lines. Spotters already provide info that's accurate enough for drivers to use when mimicking each other.

On the other hand, if you don't want to have your data show you hit someone intentionally, don't hit them.
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I think it hurts competition and lowers passing when everyone knows what everyone else is doing. TJ Majors talks all the time about how he is using the data and the teams in the war rooms can see things. I think it hurts competition.

The part about Denny Hamlin is just because the last thing Denny needs is something else to whine about.
 
If the setup is wrong, it doesn't make a tinkers damn what the SMT data says except your ass is getting handed to ya. I don't know how many times using the yotas for example they qualified in the top five or 10 and midway thru the first fuel run they were dropping like flies. All season long we saw all of the teams yo yo ing back and forth in the field losing control of the race as the track changed, other teams made good changes, or bad pit stops, you name it. Way more variables than just SMT data.
 
kkfan91 said:
Here's an off-season discussion. What are your thoughts on the SMT data being used in the sport now?

Personally I think it's becoming an issue. I don't think you should be able to see where other cars are braking, how they are steering or all of that. I think it contributes to poor on track product when you can see what everyone else is doing. It's one thing maybe to have it for your own car, but to have it live for other cars during the race I don't agree with. Denny Hamlin shouldn't be able to get on Twitter and be like see this is what he did punish him! I'm fine with NASCAR themselves having it for their investigative and research purposes. I'd say ban teams from having access to other teams data. In a perfect world teams couldn't use it but I think that ship has sailed.
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Its part of the agreement between NASCAR and the Teams. Seeing data and replicating it are two different animals, it really doesn't effect competition.
 
Spotter22 said:
Its part of the agreement between NASCAR and the Teams. Seeing data and replicating it are two different animals, it really doesn't effect competition.
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Well, then there's really no reason to share it, is there?
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't know how many times using the yotas for example they qualified in the top five or 10 and midway thru the first fuel run they were dropping like flies.
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BS. Jesus, you're hilarious.
 
Great thread. SMT runs counter to the whole low tech piece of what NASCAR has always been. The digital dash is another example. We don't want to go all F1, but then we do a little. Gabehart spends most of his time talking to Denny about the SMT data of the competitors....and what he is seeing in Denny based on SMT. This stuff confuses the new/average fan.....Are we a ****** version of F1, or more grassroots/driver oriented? I personally hate it, and this has obviously impacted the crew chief/driver communication.

So, my question is.....Is this a byproduct of the adoption EFI/ECU....as is the digital dash......The thinking being.....We cannot control what the teams do with the data, so go open book, and let them do whatever they want?
 
Spotter22 said:
Its part of the agreement between NASCAR and the Teams. Seeing data and replicating it are two different animals, it really doesn't effect competition.
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My apologies....you answered my question in my post before I asked it. I might argue that seeing data and replicating it is very attainable for professional race car drivers who put there cars inch perfect lap after lap....this is my opinion. Additionally, you give a driver a direction on line, you take away the need to go there and see for yourself. So, maybe the data isn't 100% replicable, but it doesn't have to be to be highly significant....again my opinion. I might argue that SMT has ruined Denny's advantage at Martinsville for example. Everybody knows what he is doing now....but the cool thing is that he still does it better than most.....Blaney might argue that.
 
I've never been a fan of it and this car makes it worse. Now that everyone is running the same components and they are now drive the car the same as well.

Before at least guys were running different setups, so trying to drive the same didn't help
 
I wonder how important the SMT data is when you are running 10th or 15th in the pack? Does it monitor dirty airspeed or do they come on the radio and say the leader has great SMT data?
 
FLRacingFan said:
.... The genie can’t really be put back in the bottle at this point.
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Might as well enjoy a good thing while you can...

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Revman said:
My apologies....you answered my question in my post before I asked it. I might argue that seeing data and replicating it is very attainable for professional race car drivers who put there cars inch perfect lap after lap....this is my opinion. Additionally, you give a driver a direction on line, you take away the need to go there and see for yourself. So, maybe the data isn't 100% replicable, but it doesn't have to be to be highly significant....again my opinion. I might argue that SMT has ruined Denny's advantage at Martinsville for example. Everybody knows what he is doing now....but the cool thing is that he still does it better than most.....Blaney might argue that.
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Well its been going on for quite a while now and Denny hasn't won a race at Martinsville since 2015, However Truex has been doing quite well even with all the tracing going on.
 
StandOnIt said:
Listening to you all puffed up MY TRD powered TOYOTAS QUALIFIED in the TOP FIVE!!!...and then watching them drop like rocks when the flag drops has been some of the funniest parts of the season for me lol. The Yota pre ejaculation :D
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Bottom of the barrel post. Early in the offseason....guess it can only get worse. Nobody dropped like a rock, and I think. you know that....but whatevs.....carry on with the narrative, and refrain from the sick language.
 
Revman said:
Bottom of the barrel post. Early in the offseason....guess it can only get worse. Nobody dropped like a rock, and I think. you know that....but whatevs.....carry on with the narrative, and refrain from the sick language.
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Fair. It was more like the dropping of an anchor than a rock normally.
 
Spotter22 said:
Its being transparent which is part of the competition agreement.
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Agreements don't have to last forever. Transparency is a great thing to a POINT. Should the Chiefs have to give every other team in the NFL their playbook?
 
Spotter22 said:
Well its been going on for quite a while now and Denny hasn't won a race at Martinsville since 2015, However Truex has been doing quite well even with all the tracing going on.
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....and that says something doesn't it? Denny's advantage is gone, and Martin all of a sudden is great at Martinsville. How long did he go before he won on a short track? I will be honest....I don't love the quasi-spec-ness of the Next Gen, but I get it in the name of cost containment. I like an equipment advantage. I don't like a level playing field for the equipment. I like the cars. I can give on that. I don't think the drivers' talent should be leveled. I really don't. Denny had something on a half mile. Small track, much technique. Fascinating....but now everybody has it, and they didn't figure it out by themselves. That should be part of the sport in my opinion.
 
Revman said:
...but now everybody has it, and they didn't figure it out by themselves. That should be part of the sport in my opinion.
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Now everybody doesn't have to have different suspension uprights for every track so they can freeze out the lesser teams. Works for me. McDowell would have never won a race ever probably, Stenhouse also. I know you could care less and so could many others, but it's important to keep the sport healthy.
 
StandOnIt said:
Now everybody doesn't have to have different suspension uprights for every track so they can freeze out the lesser teams. Works for me. McDowell would have never won a race ever probably, Stenhouse also. I know you could care less and so could many others, but it's important to keep the sport healthy.
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I would argue that I do care about the health of the sport, but my fascination with it has always been about the hardware. Now that this has been somewhat neutralized, why are we trying to do the same with the driver's talent? One of the love narratives for Kyle Larson has been his ability to read the dirt.....what if technology made that less unique to him?
 
Revman said:
I would argue that I do care about the health of the sport, but my fascination with it has always been about the hardware. Now that this has been somewhat neutralized, why are we trying to do the same with the driver's talent? One of the love narratives for Kyle Larson has been his ability to read the dirt.....what if technology made that less unique to him?
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What are you talking about. Phelps has been saying that cost controls might be in play. It was getting stupid how much the teams were spending to be competitive. It still is to a certain extent. The racing has been better than it has been in years. I am not even going to comment on your experience with Kyle Larson on dirt lol.
 
These owners didn't get rich by being stupid.
SMT data is essentially collusion to keep the cost of driving talent down.
A driver no longer has a proprietary hold on his personal set of skills.
There is no need to pay a top tier driver an exorbitant sum when his skills can be seen and emulated to some extent by any other driver out there.
 
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