So, how is talent measured in racing?

CaptainHiTop said:
Oh goody. One more thread dedicated to discounting the talent of Kyle Busch. For the love of all that's holy, we get it.
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Dont think a single person discounts his talent. He's certainly one of the most talented to race in NASCAR.

IMO his maturity level hinders his overall performance. I think when he gets older he will be far more consistent.
 
jaqua19 said:
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No question that Kyle has crossed many lines but do you really think he is an on track menace that routinely wantonly crashes out other cars? The incident between Kyle and Hornaday was awful but so was the incident between Jeff and Clint or Matt and JLo. Is there anything more recent than 6 years old to demonstrate that he is a high risk for wrecking other cars deliberately or accidentally?
 
I think all of us can agree that KB is a very talented driver. What I fail to understand is that fans put up with the way he acts. In another major US sport, if an athlete acted they way he does, and/or said the things KB has in his career they would have had short careers. No, I don't want drivers that only say things that would never get them in trouble. However, I do hope that Mr. Busch gets a handle on his emotions and grows up as a person. At some point in all athlete's careers you aren't as sharp as you used to be. NASCAR and its owners tend to have long memories. Matt Kenseth, who is liked, has found out what happens when you slip as a driver, get too expensive, or a combination of the two. When KB slips I wonder if there will be anyone to catch him?
 
ChexOrWrex said:
"jimmie johnson is the best a driving loose race car"

Jeff Gordon's dirt background begs to differ
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That was an awesome race, they are both great.

I mean, I'm just saying something Jeff has said, that he can't drive Jimmie's cars. Jeff's words are the words of god. If he says it, I believe it
 
Towmater said:
I think all of us can agree that KB is a very talented driver. What I fail to understand is that fans put up with the way he acts. In another major US sport, if an athlete acted they way he does, and/or said the things KB has in his career they would have had short careers. No, I don't want drivers that only say things that would never get them in trouble. However, I do hope that Mr. Busch gets a handle on his emotions and grows up as a person. At some point in all athlete's careers you aren't as sharp as you used to be. NASCAR and its owners tend to have long memories. Matt Kenseth, who is liked, has found out what happens when you slip as a driver, get too expensive, or a combination of the two. When KB slips I wonder if there will be anyone to catch him?
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His talent will always be the one that "catches" him. At the end of the day it's about performance, if you're that good at what you do you'll always be around unless you cross some sort of social boundary. Acting like a brat when you don't win isn't controversial, it's just passion. Plenty of guys throw fits in other sports when they don't win. Typically the best athletes hate to lose more than they love to win.
 
Towmater said:
I think all of us can agree that KB is a very talented driver. What I fail to understand is that fans put up with the way he acts. In another major US sport, if an athlete acted they way he does, and/or said the things KB has in his career they would have had short careers. No, I don't want drivers that only say things that would never get them in trouble. However, I do hope that Mr. Busch gets a handle on his emotions and grows up as a person. At some point in all athlete's careers you aren't as sharp as you used to be. NASCAR and its owners tend to have long memories. Matt Kenseth, who is liked, has found out what happens when you slip as a driver, get too expensive, or a combination of the two. When KB slips I wonder if there will be anyone to catch him?
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What do you mean? Stick and ball athletes can commit unfathomable crimes and continue to play. Kyle Busch happens to be a polarizing individual that speaks his mind no different than alot of stick and ball stars that stay out of trouble.
 
Simple Fan said:
What do you mean? Stick and ball athletes can commit unfathomable crimes and continue to play. Kyle Busch happens to be a polarizing individual that speaks his mind no different than alot of stick and ball stars that stay out of trouble.
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I guess you missed the point of when they slip and become too expensive. Every heard of Greg Hardy? Slipped, cost too much, and controversial. No es bueno for Greg.
 
Simple Fan said:
What do you mean? Stick and ball athletes can commit unfathomable crimes and continue to play. Kyle Busch happens to be a polarizing individual that speaks his mind no different than alot of stick and ball stars that stay out of trouble.
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I'll back this. Kyle isn't a bad or troubled guy. He just has some poor impulse control and poor emotional intelligence. He has issues, but nothing that wouldn't benefit from 16 week CBT treatment.

Some of these other guys are strait up thugs
 
lolla79 said:
His talent will always be the one that "catches" him. At the end of the day it's about performance, if you're that good at what you do you'll always be around unless you cross some sort of social boundary. Acting like a brat when you don't win isn't controversial, it's just passion. Plenty of guys throw fits in other sports when they don't win. Typically the best athletes hate to lose more than they love to win.
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What was the social boundry Kurt Busch crossed? Verbally being nasty to a reporter, and to teammates? :AHHHH: He lost his ride due to whatever happened.
 
Towmater said:
He played another season with the Cowboys as a starter after his court case went bye, bye.
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Lol and? OJ went free. Casey Anthony went free.

Comparing the wife beaters, molesters , drug heads etc... of the NFL is far and above egregious when comparing to Kyle Busch.

Kyle has a troll attitude & is guilty of stupid ontrack antics. He is not a ****** criminal.
 
On topic, I still believe Carl Edwards was vastly underrated. Despite a few winless seasons with Roush, and him trucking through Roush's downward spiral from 2012-2014, he still managed just under 30 wins, again despite 3 winless seasons.

Further, even though he never won a title, he is one of the few drivers that proved capable of putting together full seasons, and proved capable of being able to compete for multipe championships, despite not having the titles

I'm sure some will disagree, or haven't really thought too deeply about it, but I think Carl was just as good as Harvick, at the least.

I think he was better than Denny, Matt, Joey and those guys, and probably the next best driver behind Kyle.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Lol and? OJ went free. Casey Anthony went free.

Comparing the wife beaters, molesters , drug heads etc... of the NFL is far and above egregious when comparing to Kyle Busch.

Kyle has a troll attitude & is guilty of stupid ontrack antics. He is not a ******* criminal.
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I never stated he was a criminal. I was replying to a post that stated - "What do you mean? Stick and ball athletes can commit unfathomable crimes and continue to play." Greg Hardy was a reply to that statement.
 
Larson is doing well in Nascar, Sprint cars, and midgets so being a leader in all of those series is like walking and flying, it takes talent to do that. Mario was a winner in F-1, Indycar, Usac and Nascar. Foyt, Usac, Indycar, IROC, Nascar. These guys lived racing on and off the track and continue to do so. So many of today's drivers have to stick to one series only. For instance you can't get Harvick, Jr, or Johnson or many others in a different racecar in their off time hardly. So in that area Talent is versatility, good in many different rides and always trying to race anything they have an opportunity to get in.
Another measure is what a driver does on a track. I had never seen anybody pass a fast car going around the outside of the tunnel turn at Pocono. My jaw dropped when Kyle did that recently. A How in the hell did he do that moment. Larson winning at Michigan on the last restart, another how in the hell did he do that.
 
Towmater said:
What was the social boundry Kurt Busch crossed? Verbally being nasty to a reporter, and to teammates? :AHHHH: He lost his ride due to whatever happened.
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Kurt "lost" his ride due to pure unhappiness that trickled down from his personal life. He was extremely unhappy with his performance in 2011 and at the same time was dealing with a divorce. Those things mixed together will kill everyone. Could you remind me of what car he drives now and why?
 
StandOnIt said:
Larson is doing well in Nascar, Sprint cars, and midgets so being a leader in all of those series is like walking and flying, it takes talent to do that. Mario was a winner in F-1, Indycar, Usac and Nascar. Foyt, Usac, Indycar, IROC, Nascar. These guys lived racing on and off the track and continue to do so. So many of today's drivers have to stick to one series only. For instance you can't get Harvick, Jr, or Johnson or many others in a different racecar in their off time hardly. So in that area Talent is versatility, good in many different rides and always trying to race anything they have an opportunity to get in.
Another measure is what a driver does on a track. I had never seen anybody pass a fast car going around the outside of the tunnel turn at Pocono. My jaw dropped when Kyle did that recently. A How in the hell did he do that moment. Larson winning at Michigan on the last restart, another how in the hell did he do that.
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This is still the biggest "wtf" driving I have seen in NASCAR.

 
Skoalbandit33 said:
No question that Kyle has crossed many lines but do you really think he is an on track menace that routinely wantonly crashes out other cars? The incident between Kyle and Hornaday was awful but so was the incident between Jeff and Clint or Matt and JLo. Is there anything more recent than 6 years old to demonstrate that he is a high risk for wrecking other cars deliberately or accidentally?
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No. Kyle races clean, moves over for guys. I hadn't read the entire thread. Someone asked for an example of him wrecking someone, and I shared one.

And again, as I've said before, I enjoy Kyle.
 
Matthew2470 said:
My favorite part about Kyle winning is that it bothers so many of you people so much. Just knowing that his success ruins your day/night makes me happy.
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The funny thing is, I don't think him winning bothers most of the "haters", it's his fans who are bothersome, and comments like these.

I like Kyle, I think he's hilarious. I'd rather not see him win, just because of how arrogant some of his fans act, and comments like these.

I wanted Jones to win last night, but between Matt, KB, Larson, and Harvick, I was pulling for KB.
 
lolla79 said:
Kurt "lost" his ride due to pure unhappiness that trickled down from his personal life. He was extremely unhappy with his performance in 2011 and at the same time was dealing with a divorce. Those things mixed together will kill everyone. Could you remind me of what car he drives now and why?
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He drives for Gene Haas. I don't think Tony liked the end-a-round move that occurred in his hire. He drives for the only top shelf owner that would touch him. He wasn't gonna get a ride at any of the others. He started burning those bridges a long time ago.

I should point out that Kurt is my second fav. driver. The realities are that his actions have had negative effects on his career and how marketable he is to sponsors.
 
Since the championship has gone lottery
Matthew2470 said:
My favorite part about Kyle winning is that it bothers so many of you people so much. Just knowing that his success ruins your day/night makes me happy.
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Kyle is a polarizing figure and one of the benefits is the drama between his supporters and detractors. I used to be highly critical of Kyle and his off track antics but Nascar, JGR and his sponsors don't care and if they don't care I don't care. Don't get me wrong as if I had a child or grandchild that behaved the way Kyle does there would be some severe behavior modification therapy applied by yours truly. The stuff I am talking about is throwing mics and calling other drivers morons and things of that nature. I saw a picture of him with a broom on top of his car which I find very funny and if someone is offended by that sort of thing they will find themselves offended a lot.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Since the championship has gone lottery
Kyle is a polarizing figure and one of the benefits is the drama between his supporters and detractors. I used to be highly critical of Kyle and his off track antics but Nascar, JGR and his sponsors don't care and if they don't care I don't care. Don't get me wrong as if I had a child or grandchild that behaved the way Kyle does there would be some severe behavior modification therapy applied by yours truly. The stuff I am talking about is throwing mics and calling other drivers morons and things of that nature. I saw a picture of him with a broom on top of his car which I find very funny and if someone is offended by that sort of thing they will find themselves offended a lot.
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He is a troll.

But one thing with him that I dont like (other drivers too, but he does it more) is the way he embraces his character...like a character.

Maybe I didn't notice last year, but with Monster Energy, some of these drivers are a bit more theatrical, almost like "acting" in the sense that reality tv stars act. I saw that just a bit with Kyle.

Obviously that's not ON Kyle at all, but I have this strange suspicion that some of these drivers are "acting" just a bit more than they have in the past. I'm not a fan of that.
 
Towmater said:
He drives for Gene Haas. I don't think Tony liked the end-a-round move that occurred in his hire. He drives for the only top shelf owner that would touch him. He wasn't gonna get a ride at any of the others. He started burning those bridges a long time ago.

I should point out that Kurt is my second fav. driver. The realities are that his actions have had negative effects on his career and how marketable he is to sponsors.
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So Kurt being a douche (according to you) makes him your second favourite driver.
Kyle being a douche (again according to you) makes him pond scum. Lol
 
Towmater said:
He drives for Gene Haas. I don't think Tony liked the end-a-round move that occurred in his hire. He drives for the only top shelf owner that would touch him. He wasn't gonna get a ride at any of the others. He started burning those bridges a long time ago.

I should point out that Kurt is my second fav. driver. The realities are that his actions have had negative effects on his career and how marketable he is to sponsors.
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My point was that he'll always have a ride because of his TALENT. Barney Vissar doesn't own a top team now? If I recall correctly, Kurt didn't even have to drive the whole 2012 season for James Finch before Barney gave him a call and kicked Regan Smith to the curb. He turned that team around and made them into the contender they are today. That's really the reason why Gene Haas wanted him, because of his talent.
 
lolla79 said:
My point was that he'll always have a ride because of his TALENT. Barney Vissar doesn't own a top team now? If I recall correctly, Kurt didn't even have to drive the whole 2012 season for James Finch before Barney gave him a call and kicked Regan Smith to the curb. He turned that team around and made them into the contender they are today. That's really the reason why Gene Haas wanted him, because of his talent.
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He is very talented. I think he's gotten better at saving his equipment as he aged. When he was younger he didn't do that. I like the charity he does off the track and that he doesn't bring attention to that work.
 
jaqua19 said:
He is a troll.

But one thing with him that I dont like (other drivers too, but he does it more) is the way he embraces his character...like a character.

Maybe I didn't notice last year, but with Monster Energy, some of these drivers are a bit more theatrical, almost like "acting" in the sense that reality tv stars act. I saw that just a bit with Kyle.

Obviously that's not ON Kyle at all, but I have this strange suspicion that some of these drivers are "acting" just a bit more than they have in the past. I'm not a fan of that.
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Your points make sense and up until the last 12-15 races last year had been a very solid citizen for the past couple of years. It started out with him calling a driver he ran into a moron and followed all through this year. From what I understand Monster eats up the kind of stuff Kyle does so maybe that is why he feels empowered to become a character of his character. He did give himself a nickname which further bolsters your point.
 
Matthew2470 said:
My favorite part about Kyle winning is that it bothers so many of you people so much. Just knowing that his success ruins your day/night makes me happy.
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I like Kyle and I'm far from a hater, I just don't put nearly as much stock into his Truck and Xfinity wins as his Cup wins. Kyle's win last night....HELL YEAH! Kyle's wins on Thursday and Friday......meh.
 
Towmater said:
What was the social boundry Kurt Busch crossed? Verbally being nasty to a reporter, and to teammates? :AHHHH: He lost his ride due to whatever happened.
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There was a pattern, it wasnt an isolated case.
 
Greg said:
There was a pattern, it wasnt an isolated case.
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I agree but it was verbal. He wasn't hitting people and the press went after him because he was "mean" to one of them and they didn't like it.
 
Towmater said:
I agree but it was verbal. He wasn't hitting people and the press went after him because he was "mean" to one of them and they didn't like it.
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Mean, to more than one of them.
 
Greg said:
Mean, to more than one of them.
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He was difficult to a member of the press and they made an example out of him. Similar to what the baseball writers do when it is time to vote someone into the HoF they don't like.
 
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