Stop with the fake debris cautions, NASCAR!

PeopleAreStrange

PeopleAreStrange

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Thinking about emailing this to several people in NASCAR. I'm sure they will ignore it (or deny the caution was fake), but I need to let off steam.
______________________

Dear NASCAR:

Your fake debris caution yesterday caused Jeff and several other drivers who were pitting under green to go a lap down. Your goal may be to try to make the race more interesting, but what you're doing is making your fans mad. Instead of a likely top 5 finish, Jeff got a DNF because he got in a wreck with other lapped cars, when he shouldn't have been back there in the first place. And this isn't the first time you've cost Jeff a good finish. Last year in the June Dover race, Jeff would have likely won if not for a fake debris caution.

Unless you would rather continue making your (shrinking) fan base mad, quit changing the outcome of races with debris cautions!

-Angry race fan
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
Thinking about emailing this to several people in NASCAR. I'm sure they will ignore it (or deny the caution was fake), but I need to let off steam.
______________________

Dear NASCAR:

Your fake debris caution yesterday caused Jeff and several other drivers who were pitting under green to go a lap down. Your goal may be to try to make the race more interesting, but what you're doing is making your fans mad. Instead of a likely top 5 finish, Jeff got a DNF because he got in a wreck with other lapped cars, when he shouldn't have been back there in the first place. And this isn't the first time you've cost Jeff a good finish. Last year in the June Dover race, Jeff would have likely won if not for a fake debris caution.

Unless you would rather continue making your (shrinking) fan base mad, quit changing the outcome of races with debris cautions!

-Angry race fan
Click to expand...
You might wanna specify Jeff Gordon or Jeff Burton ;)

Might not make a difference though, such a letter will probably end up in the same pile as Mike Helton's diet pills...
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
Thinking about emailing this to several people in NASCAR. I'm sure they will ignore it (or deny the caution was fake), but I need to let off steam.
______________________

Dear NASCAR:

Your fake debris caution yesterday caused Jeff and several other drivers who were pitting under green to go a lap down. Your goal may be to try to make the race more interesting, but what you're doing is making your fans mad. Instead of a likely top 5 finish, Jeff got a DNF because he got in a wreck with other lapped cars, when he shouldn't have been back there in the first place. And this isn't the first time you've cost Jeff a good finish. Last year in the June Dover race, Jeff would have likely won if not for a fake debris caution.

Unless you would rather continue making your (shrinking) fan base mad, quit changing the outcome of races with debris cautions!

-Angry race fan
Click to expand...

note to angry race fan:
If you will remember, Jeff was whining about his splitter hitting the track while he was running mid pack. He should know by now (we do) that when the field was a spread out like it was, Nascar is going to throw a caution. But Jeff bitched and moaned and by blaming the car and the crew, was able to pit early and he screwed his own self. If you noticed, twice right before in race pit stops, they threw a caution because the first place car..whichever car it was, Kenseth, Kahne or Kyle was over 7 seconds ahead of the pack and had lapped at least ten cars in the field. Hate to bad mouth your driver, but he knows better than that. Many cars that finished in the top ten ran most of the race in the teens or upper 20th positions, but they took advantages of the bull cautions that Nascar throws and the wrecks they cause. That is Nascar racing. Another thing, how often do you see Jeff running around the track with a damaged car after a wreck. Nope he is in front of the camera talking about being out of the race with a "great car" and talking about his sponsors. Kenseth on the other hand, patched up his car, montoya, Jamie etc. did also and made the best of it. Kenseth ran it up to 15 place, 18th and 19th for the other two and made a race out of it.
Jeff has become what I call a wheel holder. Top flite equipment and team, participates, but does not risk anything to win, places well, but the car is always great...but a little off..nope it is the driver that is a little off not the car, and their idea of success is to get into the chase so they can continue to get camera time, get the check..and they are going to do a little better next year because they were "a little off" this year
 
StandOnIt said:
note to angry race fan:
If you will remember, Jeff was whining about his splitter hitting the track while he was running mid pack. He should know by now (we do) that when the field was a spread out like it was, Nascar is going to throw a caution. But Jeff bitched and moaned and by blaming the car and the crew, was able to pit early and he screwed his own self. If you noticed, twice right before in race pit stops, they threw a caution because the first place car..whichever car it was, Kenseth, Kahne or Kyle was over 7 seconds ahead of the pack and had lapped at least ten cars in the field. Hate to bad mouth your driver, but he knows better than that. Many cars that finished in the top ten ran most of the race in the teens or upper 20th positions, but they took advantages of the bull cautions that Nascar throws and the wrecks they cause. That is Nascar racing. Another thing, how often do you see Jeff running around the track with a damaged car after a wreck. Nope he is in front of the camera talking about being out of the race with a "great car" and talking about his sponsors. Kenseth on the other hand, patched up his car, montoya, Jamie etc. did also and made the best of it. Kenseth ran it up to 15 place, 18th and 19th for the other two and made a race out of it.
Click to expand...

The field had completed numerous cycles of green flag stops, at least three, during the race prior to that debris caution. There was nothing that indicated a caution would be coming out soon. I also don't remember the splitter problem. A few laps before the stop he mentioned the temps were up around 270 but that's all. Regardless, it's irrelevant. He also didn't pit that early - Keselowski, Johnson, Bowyer, and Kenseth had all just come in the previous two laps.

As for not running around with a damaged car - Almirola hit the left side of the car at 190+ and the right side of the car hit a wall without a SAFER barrier at 190+. It was killed. No one was running that piece of garbage around the track. Kenseth and McMurray had minor damage compared to that, it's not even close.
 
StandOnIt said:
note to angry race fan:
If you will remember, Jeff was whining about his splitter hitting the track while he was running mid pack. He should know by now (we do) that when the field was a spread out like it was, Nascar is going to throw a caution. But Jeff bitched and moaned and by blaming the car and the crew, was able to pit early and he screwed his own self. If you noticed, twice right before in race pit stops, they threw a caution because the first place car..whichever car it was, Kenseth, Kahne or Kyle was over 7 seconds ahead of the pack and had lapped at least ten cars in the field. Hate to bad mouth your driver, but he knows better than that. Many cars that finished in the top ten ran most of the race in the teens or upper 20th positions, but they took advantages of the bull cautions that Nascar throws and the wrecks they cause. That is Nascar racing. Another thing, how often do you see Jeff running around the track with a damaged car after a wreck. Nope he is in front of the camera talking about being out of the race with a "great car" and talking about his sponsors. Kenseth on the other hand, patched up his car, montoya, Jamie etc. did also and made the best of it. Kenseth ran it up to 15 place, 18th and 19th for the other two and made a race out of it.
Jeff has become what I call a wheel holder. Top flite equipment and team, participates, but does not risk anything to win, places well, but the car is always great...but a little off..nope it is the driver that is a little off not the car, and their idea of success is to get into the chase so they can continue to get camera time, get the check..and they are going to do a little better next year because they were "a little off" this year
Click to expand...

Note to Fan of Race Manipulation: There's no excuse for NASCAR to throw fake cautions, no matter how spread out the field gets. And yes, there were green flag pit stops in the race. Jeff complaining about his car has absolutely nothing to do with this (though I should mention all drivers complain about their car at one time or another). As far as Jeff not fixing his car and getting back into the race, if his team could've fixed the car and got him back out onto the track, they would have like they have in the past. But Jeff's car never should have been wrecked because he never should have been near the back to begin with. He was in the top 5 when he pitted and NASCAR decided to throw the caution.

Don't even begin to tell me Jeff doesn't try to win. That's complete bull.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The field had completed numerous cycles of green flag stops, at least three, during the race prior to that debris caution. There was nothing that indicated a caution would be coming out soon. I also don't remember the splitter problem. A few laps before the stop he mentioned the temps were up around 270 but that's all. Regardless, it's irrelevant. He also didn't pit that early - Keselowski, Johnson, Bowyer, and Kenseth had all just come in the previous two laps.

As for not running around with a damaged car - Almirola hit the left side of the car at 190+ and the right side of the car hit a wall without a SAFER barrier at 190+. It was killed. No one was running that piece of garbage around the track. Kenseth and McMurray had minor damage compared to that, it's not even close.
Click to expand...

It is always interesting when somebody says no that wasn't the race I watched, didn't happen that way. It would be ok with me if they would post their opinion instead of pulling up my post and pointing out that I was wrong. then I have to dig up the stats and prove a point, which is impossible to do with ol' FL, he will find something else to pick at it seems. But anyway for this one time around, for what it is worth..absolutely nothing, the first debris caution was at lap 70. In order to have at least three green light pit stops as you say and have the debris caution at lap 70, their fuel window would have been at 17.5 laps. Disclamer: IMO, The rest of the debris cautions with the exception of the last one where they actually showed a piece of a car on the track were also spread conveniently thru out the race, between wrecks and stoppages to re bunch the field IN MY OPINION:)

Caution Flags:
11 cautions for 61 laps. [Beneficiary in Brackets] 70-74 (Debris Turns 3 And 4 [43]); 115-119 (Car #13 Accident Turn 4 [39]); 123-130 (Debris Frontstretch
[Red Flag-1 10 Mins 40 Secs][Red Flag-2 16 Mins 22 Secs] [10]); 243-248 (Debris Backstretch [42]); 259-266 (Car #88, 16, 7, 93 Accident Turn 3 [42]); 305-309 (Debris
Turn 1 [48]); 313-318 (Debris Turn 4 [9]); 320-324 (Car #10, 2 Accident Turn 3 [14]); 327-331 (Car #43, 55, 24, 47, 17, 13, 21 Accident Frontstretch [Red Flag-3 9 Mins 13
Secs] [31]); 335-338 (Car #48, 42, 20, 27, 14 Accident Turn 4 [17]); 386-389 (Debris Frontstretch [27])
 
PeopleAreStrange said:
Note to Fan of Race Manipulation: There's no excuse for NASCAR to throw fake cautions, no matter how spread out the field gets. And yes, there were green flag pit stops in the race. Jeff complaining about his car has absolutely nothing to do with this (though I should mention all drivers complain about their car at one time or another). As far as Jeff not fixing his car and getting back into the race, if his team could've fixed the car and got him back out onto the track, they would have like they have in the past. But Jeff's car never should have been wrecked because he never should have been near the back to begin with. He was in the top 5 when he pitted and NASCAR decided to throw the caution.

Don't even begin to tell me Jeff doesn't try to win. That's complete bull.
Click to expand...
Kurt Busch's pit stop crew lost him at least 14 places during the race..then the car dies and he starts in the rear of the longest line, 20 more places he lost with around 70 to go? Drove it up thru there from last on the lead lap to finish 3rd. I know you don't see the difference between a wheel holder and a driver.

Listen to what Jeff said..he shouldn't have stopped in the pit box..he would have been on the lead lap then:
 
StandOnIt said:
It is always interesting when somebody says no that wasn't the race I watched, didn't happen that way. It would be ok with me if they would post their opinion instead of pulling up my post and pointing out that I was wrong. then I have to dig up the stats and prove a point, which is impossible to do with ol' FL, he will find something else to pick at it seems. But anyway for this one time around, for what it is worth..absolutely nothing, the first debris caution was at lap 70. In order to have at least three green light pit stops as you say and have the debris caution at lap 70, their fuel window would have been at 17.5 laps. Disclamer: IMO, The rest of the debris cautions with the exception of the last one where they actually showed a piece of a car on the track were also spread conveniently thru out the race, between wrecks and stoppages to re bunch the field IN MY OPINION:)

Caution Flags:
11 cautions for 61 laps. [Beneficiary in Brackets] 70-74 (Debris Turns 3 And 4 [43]); 115-119 (Car #13 Accident Turn 4 [39]); 123-130 (Debris Frontstretch
[Red Flag-1 10 Mins 40 Secs][Red Flag-2 16 Mins 22 Secs] [10]); 243-248 (Debris Backstretch [42]); 259-266 (Car #88, 16, 7, 93 Accident Turn 3 [42]); 305-309 (Debris
Turn 1 [48]); 313-318 (Debris Turn 4 [9]); 320-324 (Car #10, 2 Accident Turn 3 [14]); 327-331 (Car #43, 55, 24, 47, 17, 13, 21 Accident Frontstretch [Red Flag-3 9 Mins 13
Secs] [31]); 335-338 (Car #48, 42, 20, 27, 14 Accident Turn 4 [17]); 386-389 (Debris Frontstretch [27])
Click to expand...

When you post something that's wrong in an argument, expect to be corrected.

I don't know about three, but I remember at least two green flag pit stops in the race before that caution. And you don't have to tell us the last part, we already know the reason they throw fake debris cautions is to bunch up the field.

StandOnIt said:
Kurt Busch's pit stop crew lost him at least 14 places during the race..then the car dies and he starts in the rear of the longest line, 20 more places he lost with around 70 to go? Drove it up thru there from last on the lead lap to finish 3rd. I know you don't see the difference between a wheel holder and a driver.

Listen to what Jeff said..he shouldn't have stopped in the pit box..he would have been on the lead lap then:
[VIDEO]
Click to expand...

So how does a driver drive to the front after he gets wrecked out of the race? :confused: Jeff messed up by pitting after the caution came out. I get that. But NASCAR messed up by throwing the fake caution. And Jeff wasn't the only driver affected. All of the other drivers who had just pitted under green were affected as well. That caution should have never come out... Period.
 
since when does Nascar need an excuse to throw a fake caution? That's Nascar racing. can't understand why you aren't blasting Mark or Amerola, for the cause of the wreck, I did, Mark cut him going into the turn IMO. or the rope, or Jeffs admission that he shouldn't have stopped in the pit and gone out and would have been on the lead lap. go ahead blame it on Nascar, you will have many more races to bitch about because there are plenty of mile and a halfers coming up, and watch and learn. when and if they get spread out, there WILL be a caution.
 
StandOnIt said:
since when does Nascar need an excuse to throw a fake caution? That's Nascar racing. can't understand why you aren't blasting Mark or Amerola, for the cause of the wreck, I did, Mark cut him going into the turn IMO. or the rope, or Jeffs admission that he shouldn't have stopped in the pit and gone out and would have been on the lead lap. go ahead blame it on Nascar, you will have many more races to bitch about because there are plenty of mile and a halfers coming up, and watch and learn. when and if they get spread out, there WILL be a caution.
Click to expand...

NASCAR throwing fake cautions is not fair to the drivers, teams, fans, and sponsors that are affected by NASCAR's decision to manipulate the race.

I put some blame on Mark, too. And like I already told you, I'm not happy about Jeff pitting. But I'm most upset with NASCAR for throwing the fake caution and affecting the outcome.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
One question: How do you know it was fake?
Click to expand...

Any of these "fans" who think there is such a thing as a fake caution , should be forced to watch a race with only the Nascar Officials audio on . If just once , they heard the corner workers reporting debris and Nascar race control asking spotters ,teams , drivers , etc . for verification , then being forced to err on the side of caution and having to throw the yellow .Only to send the truck out and find that whatever was there had be knocked off or blown off the track . Perhaps then , they would have a tiny bit of understanding. Alas that's my dream , and it'll never happen . Year after year this silliness goes on , (not from drivers , crews and owners ) but from casual race fans who want to appear to be more hip than the rest of us . Just my humble opinion and I know absolutely nothing about it , but I am in favor of safety.
 
StandOnIt said:
It is always interesting when somebody says no that wasn't the race I watched, didn't happen that way. It would be ok with me if they would post their opinion instead of pulling up my post and pointing out that I was wrong. then I have to dig up the stats and prove a point, which is impossible to do with ol' FL, he will find something else to pick at it seems. But anyway for this one time around, for what it is worth..absolutely nothing, the first debris caution was at lap 70. In order to have at least three green light pit stops as you say and have the debris caution at lap 70, their fuel window would have been at 17.5 laps. Disclamer: IMO, The rest of the debris cautions with the exception of the last one where they actually showed a piece of a car on the track were also spread conveniently thru out the race, between wrecks and stoppages to re bunch the field IN MY OPINION:)

Caution Flags:
11 cautions for 61 laps. [Beneficiary in Brackets] 70-74 (Debris Turns 3 And 4 [43]); 115-119 (Car #13 Accident Turn 4 [39]); 123-130 (Debris Frontstretch
[Red Flag-1 10 Mins 40 Secs][Red Flag-2 16 Mins 22 Secs] [10]); 243-248 (Debris Backstretch [42]); 259-266 (Car #88, 16, 7, 93 Accident Turn 3 [42]); 305-309 (Debris
Turn 1 [48]); 313-318 (Debris Turn 4 [9]); 320-324 (Car #10, 2 Accident Turn 3 [14]); 327-331 (Car #43, 55, 24, 47, 17, 13, 21 Accident Frontstretch [Red Flag-3 9 Mins 13
Secs] [31]); 335-338 (Car #48, 42, 20, 27, 14 Accident Turn 4 [17]); 386-389 (Debris Frontstretch [27])
Click to expand...

Green flag pit stops:

Laps 45-48
Laps 173-178
Laps 217-223
 
ToyYoda said:
You might wanna specify Jeff Gordon or Jeff Burton ;)

Might not make a difference though, such a letter will probably end up in the same pile as Mike Helton's diet pills...
Click to expand...

He said "good finish" so I think that would imply Gordon.

I kid, I kid. I like RCR and Burton.
 
ted@economy said:
Any of these "fans" who think there is such a thing as a fake caution , should be forced to watch a race with only the Nascar Officials audio on . If just once , they heard the corner workers reporting debris and Nascar race control asking spotters ,teams , drivers , etc . for verification , then being forced to err on the side of caution and having to throw the yellow .Only to send the truck out and find that whatever was there had be knocked off or blown off the track . Perhaps then , they would have a tiny bit of understanding. Alas that's my dream , and it'll never happen . Year after year this silliness goes on , (not from drivers , crews and owners ) but from casual race fans who want to appear to be more hip than the rest of us . Just my humble opinion and I know absolutely nothing about it , but I am in favor of safety.
Click to expand...

TV would help if they would actually show the debris, or if the cameraman can't find it, show the safety workers picking it up, or looking for it. If they didn't cram so many commercials in, maybe we could see stuff like this.
 
ted@economy said:
Any of these "fans" who think there is such a thing as a fake caution , should be forced to watch a race with only the Nascar Officials audio on . If just once , they heard the corner workers reporting debris and Nascar race control asking spotters ,teams , drivers , etc . for verification , then being forced to err on the side of caution and having to throw the yellow .Only to send the truck out and find that whatever was there had be knocked off or blown off the track . Perhaps then , they would have a tiny bit of understanding. Alas that's my dream , and it'll never happen . Year after year this silliness goes on , (not from drivers , crews and owners ) but from casual race fans who want to appear to be more hip than the rest of us . Just my humble opinion and I know absolutely nothing about it , but I am in favor of safety.
Click to expand...


Well said, the other option is they don't throw the caution and your favorite driver cuts a tire, crashes into the wall, brings out the caution for the rest of the field and your driver is the only one screwed. You go to the garage and the rest come get fresh tires and gas. You like the other Option!!!!:dual9mm:
 
they have had so many complaints over the years, that recently in the last few years, the cameras have been trained to find the little sliver of a piece that it is. The caution worker trots out there to remove most of the times a very small piece of debris, one time a piece of rollbar padding, or a piece bearbond tape and DW will have to explain just how dangerous this stuff is, even though this is a false alarm, you got to err on the side of safety. Also Nascar has had videos (cover your a$$) made showing the process that they do to find debris. Last night you had to take their word for it, the only piece I saw was a big piece of car on the last debris caution. They even had a graphic, showing everywhere there was a caution, but again no cameras focused on the debris that caused it. Who knows, it could have been fans throwing junk on the track, they showed one that happened that way when the cable incident happened, looked like a quart bottle of coke. I didn't see a debris caution in either the F1 race or the Indy race, but they are common in every nascar race..so many in fact that their idea of "erring on the side of safety" will always be a topic. Fake cautions and conveniently bunching up the spread out field seem to be the common gripes.
 
KevinWI said:
TV would help if they would actually show the debris, or if the cameraman can't find it, show the safety workers picking it up, or looking for it. If they didn't cram so many commercials in, maybe we could see stuff like this.
Click to expand...
I agree, but there are sections of track with no camera coverage. For example, there was no angle on Montoya hitting the jet dryer. Some people assume that because the specific piece of debris wasn't shown on TV, then it didn't exist and the caution was 'fake'.
 
yep they sure do. And over time they have shown again and again, pieces of tape padding and other harmless pieces of "debris".
 
StandOnIt said:
yep they sure do. And over time they have shown again and again, pieces of tape padding and other harmless pieces of "debris".
Click to expand...
Would you like any drivers to get hurt or worse because the piece of padding turned out to be metal instead of foam? I think it's better to be safe than to see a driver getting hurt.
 
They need to remove the splitters and the exhaust pipes sticking out, those cause more problems than a small piece of anything on the track. In the interest of safety of course. They have also designed the cars so you can't see through them to see the wreck in front of them. Good thinking there..safety first. Every other major racing series, the cars have side view mirrors AND a spotter. Not Nascar..I can go on and on ad nauseum
 
My 2 cents:

Unlike what many of y'all think, I think the 3 fake debris cautions were in fact fake. I'd say maybe one max was legit. Notice how they throw them in long green flag runs.
My opinion on fake debris caution is that if they impact the race then shame on nascar; however if it is a long green flag run and there are only 10 cars on the lead lap then by all means throw it.
 
Might as well make every 1.5 mile race like the All star race if all they do is throw debris cautions to bunch the field back together...Make a mandatory yellow at 20 to go or something, but don't insult the intelligence of the fans by throwing cautions for candy wrappers on the track :rolleyes:
 
DSquad48 said:
Might as well make every 1.5 mile race like the All star race if all they do is throw debris cautions to bunch the field back together...Make a mandatory yellow at 20 to go or something, but don't insult the intelligence of the fans by throwing cautions for candy wrappers on the track :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

it's something that they've been doing for years, with some years worse than others

AKA fabricated excitement
 
You folks must watch too much wrestling . If I believed cautions were fake or debris was made up , I simply wouldn't watch . I wouldn't allow myself to be manipulated like that . I encourage you folks to find another sport . One that doesn't insult your intelligence . Please .
 
It all depends on if the "fake" caution helped or hurt your driver, correct?
 
StandOnIt said:
note to angry race fan:
If you will remember, Jeff was whining about his splitter hitting the track while he was running mid pack. He should know by now (we do) that when the field was a spread out like it was, Nascar is going to throw a caution. But Jeff bitched and moaned and by blaming the car and the crew, was able to pit early and he screwed his own self. If you noticed, twice right before in race pit stops, they threw a caution because the first place car..whichever car it was, Kenseth, Kahne or Kyle was over 7 seconds ahead of the pack and had lapped at least ten cars in the field. Hate to bad mouth your driver, but he knows better than that. Many cars that finished in the top ten ran most of the race in the teens or upper 20th positions, but they took advantages of the bull cautions that Nascar throws and the wrecks they cause. That is Nascar racing. Another thing, how often do you see Jeff running around the track with a damaged car after a wreck. Nope he is in front of the camera talking about being out of the race with a "great car" and talking about his sponsors. Kenseth on the other hand, patched up his car, montoya, Jamie etc. did also and made the best of it. Kenseth ran it up to 15 place, 18th and 19th for the other two and made a race out of it.
Jeff has become what I call a wheel holder. Top flite equipment and team, participates, but does not risk anything to win, places well, but the car is always great...but a little off..nope it is the driver that is a little off not the car, and their idea of success is to get into the chase so they can continue to get camera time, get the check..and they are going to do a little better next year because they were "a little off" this year
Click to expand...

:bsflag:
 
It's better to error on the side of caution when it comes to debris cautions. I will say though, it has a terrible appearance when the cautions come out just in time to save Dale Jr.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
It's better to error on the side of caution when it comes to debris cautions. I will say though, it has a terrible appearance when the cautions come out just in time to save Dale Jr.
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There has to be somebody that the caution came out just in time to save .It's the luck of the draw . A caution usually helps everyone but the leader . So you can make up a story that fits any racer except the leader. I've also seen cautions when Junior was leading .
 
ted@economy said:
There has to be somebody that the caution came out just in time to save .It's the luck of the draw . A caution usually helps everyone but the leader . So you can make up a story that fits any racer except the leader. I've also seen cautions when Junior was leading .
Click to expand...


There is a bad appearance though. Debris cautions - it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for NASCAR. There's no win.

There are times they throw a caution when they shouldn't but that's part of it. It's not like Danica Patrick goes a lap down and NASCAR shouts "THROW A CAUTION NOW".
 
be great to err on the side of caution, instead of inventing them. Don't remember any other form of motor racing that they stopped the race for debris cautions? Makes it look like Nascar car builders can't build a car that doesn't have parts flying off it for no reason. I really like the cautions where they show the clean up crew going way over off the racing line to pick up a piece of paper. Haven't seen much of it lately, got to cram commercials in there. got to see one caution, a by golly real one with an actual big piece of a car and it was in the racing line for a change. It's Nascar racing, it works to help the show/race, but some of us aren't swallowing the debris story hook line and sinker.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
There is a bad appearance though. Debris cautions - it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for NASCAR. There's no win.

There are times they throw a caution when they shouldn't but that's part of it. It's not like Danica Patrick goes a lap down and NASCAR shouts "THROW A CAUTION NOW".
Click to expand...

It's really very simple . Corner workers and spotters report debris on the track . Tower asks others to look for it and verify . A quick decision is made, right or wrong . Most times they get it right , sometimes they are tricked into it by drivers and crews , sometimes they miss it and accidents occur . In any case , they do the best they can. Brian France has nothing to do with it , by the way .
 
ted@economy said:
It's really very simple . Corner workers and spotters report debris on the track . Tower asks others to look for it and verify . A quick decision is made, right or wrong . Most times they get it right , sometimes they are tricked into it by drivers and crews , sometimes they miss it and accidents occur . In any case , they do the best they can. Brian France has nothing to do with it , by the way .
Click to expand...

Oh common Ted. You know France has a shock collar on all of the officials and he merely cracks them when Jr or Danica falls a little off pace...

:rolleyes:
 
ted@economy said:
You folks must watch too much wrestling. If I believed cautions were fake or debris was made up , I simply wouldn't watch. I wouldn't allow myself to be manipulated like that. I encourage you folks to find another sport. One that doesn't insult your intelligence. Please .
Click to expand...

As opposed to having my intelligence insulted, I've come to accept fabricated debris cautions for what they are and that is nothing more than an attempt by NASCAR to give their paying fans what they came to see: side-by-side racing.

In a way, I don't see these cautions any differently than an NBA referee looking the other way when a marquee player, say LeBron James, commits a foul that might cause him to have to come off the court. The boys running the show know the fans aren't there to watch James sit on the bench.

Same way in baseball when the star pitchers get a wide strike zone and the star hitters get a narrow one. The powers that be know that the fans pay to see an exciting event.

If there's a judgment call to be made by officials monitoring a sporting event, it's usually going to favor what is perceived to be what's good for the sport: keeping the customer satisfied. And in those cases, unfortunately, the integrity of the sport is sometimes forced to take a back seat.
 
ted@economy said:
You folks must watch too much wrestling . If I believed cautions were fake or debris was made up , I simply wouldn't watch . I wouldn't allow myself to be manipulated like that . I encourage you folks to find another sport . One that doesn't insult your intelligence . Please .
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you hit it right on the head Ted, wrestling has never said it is fake, but we all know it is. Nascar isn't ever going to admit their debris cautions are mostly B.S...we like the big show when they restart too much, just like wrestling fans want to holler at the bad guy, they don't care if it is fake, just want their guy or gal to win. I encourage you to find a "real" sport instead of being brainwashed and manipulated into believing there actually is a genuine piece of debris that is a "safety hazard":)
 
Charlie Spencer said:
One question: How do you know it was fake?
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Because NASCAR does this every single race. If the field gets spread out after a long green flag run, they'll throw a debris caution to bring the field back together when there's no debris most of the time. Debris cautions after short green flag runs are rare (only when there is actual debris - then it is shown on TV).

ted@economy said:
Any of these "fans" who think there is such a thing as a fake caution , should be forced to watch a race with only the Nascar Officials audio on . If just once , they heard the corner workers reporting debris and Nascar race control asking spotters ,teams , drivers , etc . for verification , then being forced to err on the side of caution and having to throw the yellow .Only to send the truck out and find that whatever was there had be knocked off or blown off the track . Perhaps then , they would have a tiny bit of understanding. Alas that's my dream , and it'll never happen . Year after year this silliness goes on , (not from drivers , crews and owners ) but from casual race fans who want to appear to be more hip than the rest of us . Just my humble opinion and I know absolutely nothing about it , but I am in favor of safety.
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I would love to listen to NASCAR race control radio during a race sometime and listen to what they're saying when they throw a debris caution.

As far as drivers not complaining about debris cautions, when the debris caution came out at Dover last year costing Jeff the win (if everyone had pitted under green, he would have cycled through as the leader), Jeff complained about there not being any debris.

Not sure where your getting the idea that I'm trying to be hip...

KevinWI said:
TV would help if they would actually show the debris, or if the cameraman can't find it, show the safety workers picking it up, or looking for it. If they didn't cram so many commercials in, maybe we could see stuff like this.
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FOX (or any network) can't show us the debris if the debris doesn't exist.
 
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