Stop with the fake debris cautions, NASCAR!

Johali said:
Everybody that goes to races on a regular basis has on occasion seen debris cautions where nothing was picked up, sometimes trucks ride around and find a hotdog wrapper or water bottle but sometimes they don't even bother to stop, but I have never seen it, the wife tells me about it when I get back from depositing some BL leftovers in the facilities.
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Have you never seen the piece of debris bouncing around as one car hits it , then another ? By the time they get the cars behind the pace car , who knows where the debris went ? Fact is , Nascar couldn't take the chance , they had to throw the caution when it was first spotted . Also , Nascar doesn't decide to throw a caution , they are reacting to reports from spotters and track workers who are reporting it . This is such a load of crap that my nurse has warned me to stop reading it and come back to bed .:mad:
 
ted@economy said:
Have you never seen the piece of debris bouncing around as one car hits it , then another ? By the time they get the cars behind the pace car , who knows where the debris went ? Fact is , Nascar couldn't take the chance , they had to throw the caution when it was first spotted . Also , Nascar doesn't decide to throw a caution , they are reacting to reports from spotters and track workers who are reporting it . This is such a load of crap that my nurse has warned me to stop reading it and come back to bed .:mad:
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This is a conversation that will never have a conclusion. Fans will believe what they want to believe. It's as simple as that. Nobody's going to convince anyone to change their opinion on this.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This is a conversation that will never have a conclusion. Fans will believe what they want to believe. It's as simple as that. Nobody's going to convince anyone to change their opinion on this.
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But how can they be 'fans' ? Could you be a NASA fan if you thought the moonlanding was faked?
 
According to Jayski, there were three mystery debris cautions at the 600 (debris not shown). That's tied for the most along with the Texas race. There have been twelve total so far this season, out of twenty-one cautions called for debris.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This is a conversation that will never have a conclusion. Fans will believe what they want to believe. It's as simple as that. Nobody's going to convince anyone to change their opinion on this.
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If this and the rest of the threads had a conclusion with all agreeing then this would be one dull ass Forum so its better all around for us to take sides, even swap sides to throw of the competition from time to time, like ted does. :cool:
 
Johali said:
If this and the rest of the threads had a conclusion with all agreeing then this would be one dull ass Forum so its better all around for us to take sides, even swap sides to throw of the competition from time to time, like ted does. :cool:
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Were you on the moon ?
 
If it's not shown on TV it doesn't exist? Interesting.

Stupid effing thread, BTW. I'm ashamed for even clicking on it.
 
Matthew2470 said:
If it's not shown on TV it doesn't exist? Interesting.

Stupid effing thread, BTW. I'm ashamed for even clicking on it.
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It's clear that some people believe that NASCAR throws a caution for the purpose of bunching up the field, and other people believe NASCAR has too much integrity to ever do that. If you ask me, the former are right and the latter are naive, but that's just my opinion.
 
I don't think the debris cautions are "fake," but I can see how some of us uninformed fans could draw that conclusion. Some people (like me) are natural skeptics and have to see everything that's happening for themselves before they accept or believe it.

I like how Fox has shown us shots of the NASCAR control tower at times this year, and I feel like more transparency on NASCAR's part would make things better both for them and the fans in the long run. As a fan, I think we have more access to the drivers and teams than ever before - perhaps too much, especially in this age of instant information and communication. However, as far as NASCAR's actual race operations go, it sometimes seems like everything is shrouded in a veil of secrecy, which only gives the skeptics and conspiracy theorists more ammunition.

I for one would love to sit and listen to the control tower communications during a race, as Ted suggested, just to educate myself a little and see how everything works.
 
Thanks for the heads up, fellas. I'll have to check that out once we get another Saturday night race. (I work Sundays and by the time I get back home, most of the action is over.)
 
I have listened to it on and off for years and am not impressed but like anything else there are ways around it if they are of a mind to use them, different bands, different frequencies, hand signals, flares, smoke signals, carrier pigeons.
 
Johali said:
I have listened to it on and off for years and am not impressed but like anything else there are ways around it if they are of a mind to use them, different bands, different frequencies, hand signals, flares, smoke signals, carrier pigeons.
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I'm sure it's nothing that sinister. It's as simple as the flagman listening to the radio and immediately waiving the yellow the minute anyone even mentions the word "debris." The flagman simply doesn't wait for the assessment as to how severe the debris is.
 
sloggie said:
I'm sure it's nothing that sinister. It's as simple as the flagman listening to the radio and immediately waiving the yellow the minute anyone even mentions the word "debris." The flagman simply doesn't wait for the assessment as to how severe the debris is.
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See , if you would listen to a broadcast instead of spouting info , it would become clear that the flagman is not the person who decides when the yellow comes out. No offence .;)
 
ted@economy said:
See , if you would listen to a broadcast instead of spouting info , it would become clear that the flagman is not the person who decides when the yellow comes out. No offence .;)
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It's not relevant. It doesn't matter if it's the flagman or someone else making the call too early. The decision is made to throw the flag the instant anyone mentions the word "debris" before anyone even knows what the debris is.
 
If you doubt that the yellow sometimes is governed or used for entertainment purposes rather than safety, just check some last lap cases.
In addition if Nascar wants a caution, they will wave one when a car simply slides. In some of those cases the driver recovers

Un needed cautions often make the race more dangerous, because cautions do generate other cautions. Especially for GWC finishes, were a madhouse scenario is almost prescribed.

It takes away from good technical drivers who build an advantage, and reduces it down who is the craziest. I dont mind that happening, I just dont care to see it manufactured.
 
Manufactured ? No , it'll never be that . Here's what I'll give you . Times have changed . The days of racing back to the caution are gone . The public won't tolerate reckless abandon by track promoters or governing bodies . Safety of participants and spectators has become number one priority . Sadly the old days are gone .Someone reports oil on the track and the caution doesn't come out , it's over.
 
ted@economy said:
Manufactured ? No , it'll never be that . Here's what I'll give you . Times have changed . The days of racing back to the caution are gone . The public won't tolerate reckless abandon by track promoters or governing bodies . Safety of participants and spectators has become number one priority . Sadly the old days are gone .Someone reports oil on the track and the caution doesn't come out , it's over.
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Unless it's the last lap at Daytona, then it doesn't matter how many cars crash as long as they are behind leaders.
 
Greg said:
In addition if Nascar wants a caution, they will wave one when a car simply slides. In some of those cases the driver recovers
Un needed cautions often make the race more dangerous, because cautions do generate other cautions. Especially for GWC finishes, were a madhouse scenario is almost prescribed.
It takes away from good technical drivers who build an advantage, and reduces it down who is the craziest. I dont mind that happening, I just dont care to see it manufactured.
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Nascar liked the battle shaping between Smith and Larson today at Michigan, and Dillion's limping around would have been an inconvenient caution. So inspite of the debri risk they stayed green, the hell with erring on the side of safety.

Posted as a courtesy to the faithful, aka those in denial.
 
FenderBumper said:
The only thing nascar is consistant about is consistantly proving how consistantly inconsistant they are.
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I like the use of discretion.There are so many variables and instant decisions to make, but along with using discretion, I just hope folks see it is subjective or subject to errors(I am sure that many realize this). Race control has a tough job I dont envy them.

But I still have some moments, were I am thinking thats a BS caution.
 
So today , when drivers were reporting debris on the track and Junior reported that he couldn't see any , the next lap Kasey cuts down a tire . What was that ? A good call or a bad call ?
 
I missed the race today, did it happen?

Yes fake flags happens, I've seen it happen in the past.
 
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