Teams could be limited to three charters

aunty dive said:
Good grief. They’re vinyl numbers applied to composite body panels, not tattoos on human flesh.

How many HMS employees remain from Junior’s time there?
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Are you suggesting that people do not tattoo a favorite drivers number on their body parts.
 
Greg said:
Are you suggesting that people do not tattoo a favorite drivers number on their body parts.
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I’ve always preferred to have the number shaved into the fan’s back hair.

Assuming male gender, of course.
 
I don't think it will ever happen, and this is more of a philosophical question.

In an ideal world, I wish there were no multi-car teams, and we had 40 single-car operations entering every race. I just don't like the idea of competitors having any additional reasons to cooperate with each other.
I would also prefer teams not even being able to communicate with other teams on race day. It is supposed to be a war.

I also don't like the idea of just a few "kingmakers" and the associated conformity. Forty different owners offer a lot more options and paths for drivers to pursue in my opinion.

But it will never happen that way. We don't have 40 entries every week.
The most powerful teams will always satellites or be providing parts and support for smaller teams and they at least be partially connected to the parent team.

It is just impossible to completely enforce those kinds of rules. Even if I were in charge, I would utilize the grandfather clause. As long as a team had four active cars, they could keep them, and they would only lose one if that car was inactive for a period of time.
 
I'm in favor of smaller teams. But the big teams will find a way around it with "sister" teams like they do now. I think Roush had five teams at one point. Giving Hendricks and Gibbs extra cars isn't right, it doesn't change a thing from what currently exists. How many teams have more than two cars?
 
More teams and more manufacturers would be a good thing but not yet seeing how that is going to happen with the current structure. Maybe this starts to help 🤷🏻‍♂️

Grandfathering in the 2 big clubs meh.
 
As stated = "(Joe Gibbs Racing and Hendrick Motorsports would be grandfathered in).", well no surprise here.

I agree.
Charlie Spencer said:
If I were a current charter holder, I'd take this under two conditions:

1) Charters are made permanent.
2) Remove the four-car limit on the number of cars I can field. Let me run as many non-chartered teams as I want.
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Daytripper said:
I can't see jr switching away from Chevy. JRM would basically be a Hendrick satellite team, kinda like 2311 is to JGR.
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If the three charter deal were to actually happen, I pretty much see it this way. Rick would "sell" the 48 team to JRM in sweetheart deal and the 48 becomes Hendrick's version of the 21 for Penske, the non-fourth car fourth car.
 
Formerjackman said:
If the three charter deal were to actually happen, I pretty much see it this way. Rick would "sell" the 48 team to JRM in sweetheart deal and the 48 becomes Hendrick's version of the 21 for Penske, the non-fourth car fourth car.
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Yeah. Seen a few folks saying something like that
 
As I recall, when the 5-to-4 was made, that's when several drivers became owners, IE how Jeff Gordon was technically the owner of the 48 but it was all under the Hendrick Blanket. I wonder if they intent to word things to avoid that scenario all over again? What constitutes a "team"? Technical alliance, shop space? ...... Dirty tricks are an option once again.
 
Most recent proposal includes:

- Ability for France family to own charters without restrictions
- Team cost caps
- Terms and conditions under which private equity can buy into charters

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

Sources: France family charter change included in latest offer to NASCAR teams

The France family would be able to buy NASCAR charters starting in 2025 under terms of the latest charter offer to teams, despite initial questions over whether the provision would ultimately be included. The current version of the charter agreement, which was implemented in 2015 and expires...
www.sportsbusinessjournal.com www.sportsbusinessjournal.com
 
FLRacingFan said:
Most recent proposal includes:

- Ability for France family to own charters without restrictions
- Team cost caps
- Terms and conditions under which private equity can buy into charters

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

Sources: France family charter change included in latest offer to NASCAR teams

The France family would be able to buy NASCAR charters starting in 2025 under terms of the latest charter offer to teams, despite initial questions over whether the provision would ultimately be included. The current version of the charter agreement, which was implemented in 2015 and expires...
www.sportsbusinessjournal.com www.sportsbusinessjournal.com
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It would be nice if someone could post the text of the article. For me it seems to be behind a paywall.
In any case, I don't understand how a cost cap could be effective. For example, what would keep Penske from using info/data from the engineer's on their Indy teams or road course teams and applying to NASCAR? What would keep those teams from developing parts or using aero tests knowedge?
Guess I just don't know enough about team cost caps to understand.
 
Magnethead said:
As I recall, when the 5-to-4 was made, that's when several drivers became owners, IE how Jeff Gordon was technically the owner of the 48 but it was all under the Hendrick Blanket. I wonder if they intent to word things to avoid that scenario all over again? What constitutes a "team"? Technical alliance, shop space? ...... Dirty tricks are an option once again.
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Jeff became an owner as part of his lifetime contract and keep him in HMS fold forever. That desl is paying divdends twenty+ years later. Just another example of Mr. H being smarter than the average bear.
 
Magnethead said:
As I recall, when the 5-to-4 was made, that's when several drivers became owners, IE how Jeff Gordon was technically the owner of the 48 but it was all under the Hendrick Blanket. I wonder if they intent to word things to avoid that scenario all over again? What constitutes a "team"? Technical alliance, shop space? ...... Dirty tricks are an option once again.
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That came along earlier than the four car limit. There used to be a two car limit per owner so you saw things like Roush’s mom owning a car and Papa Joe owning the 25. Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon owned the 17 and 48 respectively but I think they legitimately had ownership shares.

NASCAR never cared to actually enforce that one.
 
The Nature Boy said:
That came along earlier than the four car limit. There used to be a two car limit per owner so you saw things like Roush’s mom owning a car and Papa Joe owning the 25. Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon owned the 17 and 48 respectively but I think they legitimately had ownership shares.

NASCAR never cared to actually enforce that one.
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A two car limit is news to me. I do remember when they went to a four car limit brought about by Roush who had 5 cars.
 
StandOnIt said:
A two car limit is news to me. I do remember when they went to a four car limit brought about by Roush who had 5 cars.
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Yep, it was a pointless toothless rule, but it existed. At HMS, the 5 and 24 were in Rick's name, the 48 in Jeff's, and the 25 in Papa Joe's. At Roush, Jack had the 6 and one other, Geoff Smith had two I think, and Jack's mom had one. Among the absurdity in the rules, circa 1991, when the 11 car got thrown out for four weeks for an oversized engine, they were allowed to change the car number and enter the car in Flossie Johnson's name and KEEP the car owner points towards the 11. Why even bother with the charade?
 
Magnethead said:
As I recall, when the 5-to-4 was made, that's when several drivers became owners, IE how Jeff Gordon was technically the owner of the 48 but it was all under the Hendrick Blanket. I wonder if they intent to word things to avoid that scenario all over again? What constitutes a "team"? Technical alliance, shop space? ...... Dirty tricks are an option once again.
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No, that's not correct, Roush was the only 5 car team
 
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