Brentford
Team Owner
I was always told in school that cheating gets you nowhere. Apparently that's not the case in NASCAR as cheating could easily win you a championship.
the 78 failed post race?
- Thread starter DanicaFreak
- Start date
DaBiff1618
Team Owner
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 3,590
- Points
- 443
Teams always bend the rules in this sport, part of it. Whoever said that playing fair is the way to go lied to you lol. Life ain't fair and everybody doesn't follow the rules. But wanting a trophy for finishing 2nd place is a losers mentality, and might explain why you finished their in the first place. We're just pretending to care because it's Toyota, but if board favorites Kyle Larson or chase Elliott did the same thing nobody would give a rats ass
I don't buy that for a second. I am a Toyota fan but I dont care who the manufacturer is. One rule for all!
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
"You are missing the point, probably because who is involved."
That is the post of the weekend.
Surely you jest.
I can't speak for others but it has nothing to do with the driver or decal producer but everything to do with making rules one week and ignoring them the next. Just get rid of the rules and I am a happy camper.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Waaaaay too many big words Lew
AdoubleU24
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2015
- Messages
- 7,940
- Points
- 793
"You can cheat, just don't cheat too much now, ya hear?!"
- NASCAR
- NASCAR
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
What big words? Agree or disagree I thought Lew's post was simple, concise and to the point.
Team Penske
Team Owner
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2015
- Messages
- 7,682
- Points
- 793
Guess it is Ok for a teen age girl to just be a little pregnant.
Young guy is charged with stautory rape. In his defence he dropped his pants and demonstrated his lack of ability to penetrate very far. Is he guilty or not?
Truex failed post race but just by a little bit. That lessons the penalty?
Made my point.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
SiriusXM NASCAR Radio - Audio Link
Steve O'Donnell addresses the #78 car failing LIS post-race and cars "swerving" on the cool down lap
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnasc...t-race-and-cars-swerving-on-the-cool-down-lap
Steve O'Donnell addresses the #78 car failing LIS post-race and cars "swerving" on the cool down lap
https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnasc...t-race-and-cars-swerving-on-the-cool-down-lap
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
A few years back Carl Long was fined 200K for using a worn out engine that was 0.17 cubic inches over the regulation size during practice for the Sprint Showdown. Nascar didn't seem to have any kinder and gentler bending of the rules back then. A harmless tire on pit road at the Glen causes a caution. A dangerous bouncing tire at the entrance of pit road at Richmond equals no caution and a tire on pit road triggers a caution.
No one expects Nascar to be perfect but they are so far off the mark when it comes to implementing and applying rules the only word that suits them is inept. As I said earlier us old dogs expect this BS from Nascar but what would someone new to the series think?
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
LOL, Pete, as today people describe things as "very unique" and "very authentic" when something can only be unique or authentic and when "very" is put in front of those words it makes me bristle. If I baked 2 batches of brownies and the first batch contained 90% dog crap and the second contained only 10% would a person eat either one?
As near as I can tell Nascar is on the cutting edge of keeping it real.....real dumb that is and while the remaining die hard fans have to put up with a lot of crap in order to get their weekly fix treating them like imbeciles might push a few over the edge.
JMO, but I think it would be better to say nothing as opposed to Nascar sending some guy out to say nothing.
I am going to propose to all employers that they adopt Nascar's policies so if a worker is only 5 minutes late to work or returns to the line only 2 minutes late from break with consider that within tolerance.
The problem with not drawing a line in the sand is that the line can be moved and manipulated depending on how someone feels that day as opposed to uniformly.
I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it
So a little got more and more
I just keep trying to get a little better
Said a little better than before
Zerkfitting
Team Owner
There are a number of things that happen in a race that can cause a car to fail post race inspections. I'm pretty sure NASCAR knows how these things can affect the car and probably takes that into account.
MRM
Team Owner
If NASCAR is checking cars with a laser post race, that is stupid.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
The big words were " you people are wrong" , Nascar has announced strict rules and exact penalties that fit the severity of the infraction . People either choose to ignore this or the words are too big to understand . I choose to believe that folks would not ignore .
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
Nascar makes things unnecessarily difficult as they can state something emphatically and five minutes later turn around and do something contrary. As I have said before I believe the great majority of the Nascar fans left are die hards and while they may not like some of the things that are going on in the series they will watch until they no longer can even if the races feature cars pulling Jayco popup campers around. Nascar should treat these folks like gold as they have had to put up with a lot, look the other way on many occasions and collectively hold their noses but they have never wavered in watching from home or going to the track.
Do the failures relate at all to the fact that the 78 is the only car to consistently send sparks off the track lap after lap? Even the Gibbs cars don't do it like the 78 does. Obviously, they are getting his car lower than everyone else...
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
Good question and one I would not even attempt to answer other than to say I am sure Nascar feels the level of sparks emanating from the undercarriage of the 78 car, while out of tolerance and therefore illegal, are not illegal enough to worry about.
Allenbaba
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2013
- Messages
- 985
- Points
- 573
Yeah, I don't really know what all the outrage is. There are rules. Those rules come with penalty guidelines. The 78 broke the rule, and will be punished as outlined by the penalty guideline. It's weird that there's so much emotion behind it.
Btw, whoever brought up doing 61mph in a 60mph speed limit...there is a fine for doing 61, which is different than the fine for doing 80, which is different than the fine for doing 120. How is this any different? Rule & penalties are pretty clear.
BUT...here's the thing that worries me most about the LIS...the 78 wasn't "pushing the boundaries" either of these last two races. I know that as a fact. Drivers will often know when they're "pushing the boundaries" which is why you'll see them burn down a car after a win (Denny) or stand on the roof (Larson) etc. That list goes on and on and on. Every single team will push the boundaries at some point or another. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they aren't inspected, sometimes they win and manipulate the car during the celebration. But, every team will also carefully pick and choose when and how. And like I said, that wasn't the case for the 78 these past two races. I know when they're operating in the grey area. It's not too often, but it definitely wasn't yesterday. That leads me to believe the LIS is a very dangerous tool when it comes to labeling a team as "cheating." There are likely too many racing variables that can affect it. Which is why (I suspect) the penalty isn't too severe. Intent is impossible to prove when a reading is that low.
Also....why not test every car? That seems crazy.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Well , that muddies the waters . But in his particular case , there appears to be nothing to be concerned about . Of course , it can still be discussed like there is certainty of a cover up .
Magicmiler
Fan
Testing every car after race, although a good idea unto itself, would be time consuming, expensive, and.probably unrealistic. A myriad of problems would most likely be discovered, but what then?
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Messages
- 38,549
- Points
- 1,033
AdoubleU24
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2015
- Messages
- 7,940
- Points
- 793
I guess we won't know until this week, but if Jimmie receives a points penalty for his "minor" failure, then how does NASCAR justify not giving Truex at least a point DISadvantage to start the next round? Since they aren't going to take his advancement away, how do you give him the same penalty as Jimmie in this case?
Truex could face a 15-point penalty, with crew chief Cole Pearn being fined $22,500 because this is their second such violation in two weeks, which increases the penalties by 50 percent.(ESPN.com)
ToyYoda
Team Owner
This I would have a problem with. If Jimmie gets a penalty, Truex better sure as hell get one too, including removal of automatic advancement as a points penalty wouldn't mean dick otherwise.
AdoubleU24
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2015
- Messages
- 7,940
- Points
- 793
They certainly have a mess on their hands. A 15 point penalty while not crippling, would certainly hurt Jimmie. Leaves virtually no room for error. So you have one guy getting that treatment, and the other guy gets to sail off into the next round and have imaginary points taken away? I mean there's just no way to justify that lol.
At minimum, if you let Truex advance with the win, you have to start him -15 in the next round. There is no other way to make this even.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
I believe what he said was , I don't think it's that simple and furthermore believe @NASCAR is on the right path if they let it play outBrad K talked on Twitter about the post-race LIS inspection, says NASCAR is trying to change a culture of "transformer cars".
Read from the bottom up
Allenbaba
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2013
- Messages
- 985
- Points
- 573
Wait, so you want them to rewrite the penalty after the fact? Removal of automatic advancement is not a penalty for the caliber of violation as written when that violation occurred. It's not a subjective issue.
You wouldn't have a problem if you were to park in a spot where the sign says "No Parking. $100 fine" and then get a ticket for $400 because the police officer decided that the original fine was too low? That seems kinda crazy, and a pretty dangerous precedent to set.
The rules and penalties are clearly written. If they need to be changed because someone won, and someone did not, the change needs to come BEFORE the fact - not after.
ToyYoda
Team Owner
Just saying if the 48 and 78 did the same thing, they deserve a similar penalty. Docking Jimmie 15 points would be quite a blow, while docking Truex 15 points would essentially do nothing since he's automatically advanced.
AdoubleU24
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2015
- Messages
- 7,940
- Points
- 793
Somehow, winning a race with a car that failed inspection is actually becoming a reward in all of this. Talk about setting a dangerous precedent.
If the penalty given to Jimmie negatively affects his position in the chase, then Truex, who committed the same crime, should also have his position negatively affected. If you're going to let him keep the golden ticket to round 2, you have to dock him points in the next round.
And NASCAR needs to take responsibility for their short-sightedness.
If the penalty given to Jimmie negatively affects his position in the chase, then Truex, who committed the same crime, should also have his position negatively affected. If you're going to let him keep the golden ticket to round 2, you have to dock him points in the next round.
And NASCAR needs to take responsibility for their short-sightedness.
Allenbaba
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2013
- Messages
- 985
- Points
- 573
Similar penalty? Why not identical penalty? If you're a millionaire, and I make minimum wage, should your speeding fines be different than my speeding fines because they mean way more to me than you? Yeah, MTJ won, but he just as easily might not have, and then he'd be in Jimmie's situation. "Similar" is a word that puts way too much subjectivity into the equation. And we all know how much NASCAR fans love subjectivity. I have no problem with identical penalties for identical violations as defined prior to the infraction. What that means to each individual should be meaningless. Now...that doesn't mean I agree with the rule, or post race inspections or any of that stuff. I think the system is pretty flawed. It just means I disagree with you concerning the use of circumstantial criteria to alter a predefined penalty.
ToyYoda
Team Owner
This whole thing really exposes the flaws of this chase format. An "identical" penalty could greatly hinder one chaser while doing no harm to another.
Allenbaba
Team Owner
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2013
- Messages
- 985
- Points
- 573
You and I both agree on that.
ToyYoda
Team Owner
I know one thing, I'd cheat like a MF'er if I was one of the final four teams going into Homestead. You could run a 12-cylinder engine that runs on NOS, jet fuel, and unicorn farts and NASCAR wouldn't strip the win.
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
IMO, Nascar needs to make rules and apply them. If you are out of tolerance by a millimeter or a yard you are out of tolerance plain and simple and you face whatever consequences they dream up.
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
Hey , I'm with you . I'd like for Nascar to use it's own discretion in handing out penalties . If they need to make an example of someone , great . If they need to make a new rule on the spot , great . If someone else needs a break and can't afford a stiff fine , give them a break . Any other teams want further explanation , drop by the Nascar hauler and they will splain it to you . No need for a post mortem on penalties every damn week on racing-forums. Works for me .
S
Skoalbandit33
Guest
IDK about any cover ups but where Nascar failed Karma won't so it will be all good in the end.
I sent off an email to NHL headquarters telling them that they should follow Nascar's lead and when measuring for an illegal stick curvature if the blade doesn't fit the template by a small amount not to worry about it. I suggested the same thing for other equipment measurements too and I got a response back that basically asked me if I was nuckin futs.
Hmm.....$22,500......no Christmas at the Pearn household this year.
Brad K talked on Twitter about the post-race LIS inspection, says NASCAR is trying to change a culture of "transformer cars".
Read from the bottom up
I disagree with BKez as most of the remaining Nascar fans may may not like some things about the series but nothing is going to get them to stop watching so they ain't going anywhere. When the caution clock comes they won't like it but will be able to justify it enough to remain tuned in. With all respect to BKez Nascar set it's future before he came to cup and is no reaping what it has sewn.
Time to see if Petty Enterprises has one of those "big motors" left over. I am sure Carl Long is blue in the face over all this tolerance talk.
Mr. E
Team Owner
In a statement released by Furniture Row Racing, team president Joe Garone points the blame for the post-race laser inspection failure of winning driver Martin Truex Jr.'s car at Kevin Harvick.
Furniture Row Racing president Joe Garone does not dispute the findings of a post-race laser inspection that failed the No. 78 car of his compnay's race-winning driver, Martin Truex Jr., following Sunday's NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race at Chicagoland Speedway.
But in a statement released by the Furniture Row on Monday afternoon, Garone did indicate that the organization believes there were extenuating reasons for the failure of Truex's No. 78 Toyota in NASCAR's post-race laser inspection station (LIS).
Garone said the No. 4 car of fellow Chase for the Sprint Cup participant Kevin Harvick was to blame for knocking Truex's car slightly out of whack.
Continued-------------->>> http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ys-kevin-harvick-to-blame-martin-truex-091916
Furniture Row Racing president Joe Garone does not dispute the findings of a post-race laser inspection that failed the No. 78 car of his compnay's race-winning driver, Martin Truex Jr., following Sunday's NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race at Chicagoland Speedway.
But in a statement released by the Furniture Row on Monday afternoon, Garone did indicate that the organization believes there were extenuating reasons for the failure of Truex's No. 78 Toyota in NASCAR's post-race laser inspection station (LIS).
Garone said the No. 4 car of fellow Chase for the Sprint Cup participant Kevin Harvick was to blame for knocking Truex's car slightly out of whack.
Continued-------------->>> http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ys-kevin-harvick-to-blame-martin-truex-091916