the 78 failed post race?

DUN24 said:
Those stats plus the money Toyota has been throwing at the sport for the past 10 years are what I base that opinion on.
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Do you have a pattern of behavior to show us? Facts? Bias towards Toyota in past few years? Anything at all? Can you show us Toyota being let off the hook for something a Chevy or Ford driver was penalized for? Because that would actually mean something.
 
RowdyBusch said:
Do you have a pattern of behavior to show us? Facts? Bias towards Toyota in past few years? Anything at all? Can you show us Toyota being let off the hook for something a Chevy or Ford driver was penalized for? Because that would actually mean something.
Click to expand...

NOPE! Just looking at the timeline and thinking to myself, "wow, yota has some catching up to do."
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IMO if you lined up 100 Nascar fans and asked them if they had a strong manufacturer preference or felt winning the manufacturer trophy was of any importance you would receive a lot of blank stares. Of course there is always they odd person who deems that sort of thing important just as there are people that feel lumping a driver's lower series wins with cup wins is fair because it doesn't matter if the win in the lower series was akin to taking candy from a baby.
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Yeah, those same 100 bitch about attendance, TV ratings, and rrrrrracin'.....then there is that 101st person who is manufacturer-centric (The way it used to be, right?), simply enjoys a talented driver wheeling anything, couldn't give a **** about attendance or TV ratings, and still has yet to hear a definition of what rrrrracin' is. I think the 101st guy has it right. The others can soak in their misery. How long do you think it will take the rest of the Muppets to "Like" your post?
 
Revman said:
Yeah, those same 100 bitch about attendance, TV ratings, and rrrrrracin'.....then there is that 101st person who is manufacturer-centric (The way it used to be, right?), simply enjoys a talented driver wheeling anything, couldn't give a sh!t about attendance or TV ratings, and still has yet to hear a definition of what rrrrracin' is. I think the 101st guy has it right. The others can soak in their misery. How long do you think it will take the rest of the Muppets to "Like" your post?
Click to expand...

Misery? Did someone say misery? We have NCAAF in full bloom plus the NFL ready to begin week 3 plus the world cup of hockey and the NHL and NBA ready to begin plus the MLB playoffs just ahead. There is no way a sports fan could possibly be miserable.

Enjoy your world and perhaps you will bump into David, Jennifer and even Bill Johnson some day and then there'll be 4.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, those same 100 bitch about attendance, TV ratings, and rrrrrracin'.....then there is that 101st person who is manufacturer-centric (The way it used to be, right?), simply enjoys a talented driver wheeling anything, couldn't give a sh!t about attendance or TV ratings, and still has yet to hear a definition of what rrrrracin' is. I think the 101st guy has it right. The others can soak in their misery. How long do you think it will take the rest of the Muppets to "Like" your post?
Click to expand...

I wish I could agree with you. I don't pay attention to ratings/attendance or complain about it, but at the same time all of us want Nascar to be as good as it can be, so I'm not surprised many fans are concerned about it. When the "rrrrracin" isn't as good as it once was or as good as some fans AND drivers/teams hope it could be, it's something to talk about. If you can't (or choose not to) recognize the difference in good/bad/mediocre racing and enjoy every race as much as the last, that's fine too. Good racing is subjective anyway so it's not worth arguing about, but it's at least worth discussing.

As far as manufacturers go, I'm with you. Maybe not to the same level as you, but I always root for my Chevrolets. I cheer for drivers/teams before the manufacturer, but all things equal I'll always pull for my Chevys over the rest.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Misery? Did someone say misery? We have NCAAF in full bloom plus the NFL ready to begin week 3 plus the world cup of hockey and the NHL and NBA ready to begin plus the MLB playoffs just ahead. There is no way a sports fan could possibly be miserable.

Enjoy your world and perhaps you will bump into David, Jennifer and even Bill Johnson some day and then there'll be 4.
Click to expand...

I sincerely hope those other sports have forums for you.

...and you enjoy your world as well. Every time I am at the track there are a few more than three others who are having a great time. I don't spend any time talking to the empty seats.
 
aunty dive said:
^ This is confusing.

Weren't there all kinds of comments here this season about better racing resulting from aero and other changes?
Click to expand...

Yes, there was, and hopefully always will be discussions. And sometimes Rev seems like he's annoyed by fans who judge the "quality" of racing. Every race is always rainbows and unicorns especially if a TRD car wins.
 
2 Sweet said:
I wish I could agree with you. I don't pay attention to ratings/attendance or complain about it, but at the same time all of us want Nascar to be as good as it can be, so I'm not surprised many fans are concerned about it. When the "rrrrracin" isn't as good as it once was or as good as some fans AND drivers/teams hope it could be, it's something to talk about. If you can't (or choose not to) recognize the difference in good/bad/mediocre racing and enjoy every race as much as the last, that's fine too. Good racing is subjective anyway so it's not worth arguing about, but it's at least worth discussing.

As far as manufacturers go, I'm with you. Maybe not to the same level as you, but I always root for my Chevrolets. I cheer for drivers/teams before the manufacturer, but all things equal I'll always pull for my Chevys over the rest.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your post. I see the sport differently. There is much to enjoy in my opinion if one can wedge himself/herself away from the undefinable construct of "good racing." Races are organic--just like any contest. Appreciate the contest. Celebrate the winner. BS about who is better. The bitching is silly. This sport is great.

Manufacturer loyalty increases your chances of happiness at the end of a race. It keeps you in the race. Even when my manufacturer sucked (I have had some years), the anticipation of a revival kept me in the game.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yes, there was, and hopefully always will be discussions. And sometimes Rev seems like he's annoyed by fans who judge the "quality" of racing. Every race is always rainbows and unicorns especially if a TRD car wins.
Click to expand...

No, not annoyed really, but how can you judge the quality when as you said, it is so subjective. It's like discussing what the best color is. The race is what it is. I don't mind when somebody calls a race boring. That's his or her opinion. However, when somebody deems that the quality of racing is bad, what the hell is that? I truly enjoy every race. Seriously. I am like a pig in **** every damn week. I love it. I have said that when I get a chance to go to a track, I am like a nine year old on Christmas morning. Not every race turns out the way I want obviously, but there is still so much to think about. When I went to Fontana, Jimmie won. My guys weren't great. My son and I discussed why we weren't great for a week. What he noticed in the car's ability to turn, etc. What we needed next, etc.

I will not deny that when my TRD Toyotas win, it is rainbows an unicorns. Makes my week. Balances the **** life throws at you from time to time. It's about passion. I will never apologize for that. To @Skoalbandit33 point regarding other sports....I see bigger dickheads at the stick and ball events than I do in the mirror. I like those guys, but I do get how they could rub some the wrong way.
 
aunty dive said:
^ This is confusing.

Weren't there all kinds of comments here this season about better racing resulting from aero and other changes?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the damn engineers did their jobs, and ruined everything again. :D Freaking fascinates me how they do that honestly. So cool.
 
2 Sweet said:
I wish I could agree with you. I don't pay attention to ratings/attendance or complain about it, but at the same time all of us want Nascar to be as good as it can be, so I'm not surprised many fans are concerned about it. When the "rrrrracin" isn't as good as it once was or as good as some fans AND drivers/teams hope it could be, it's something to talk about. If you can't (or choose not to) recognize the difference in good/bad/mediocre racing and enjoy every race as much as the last, that's fine too. Good racing is subjective anyway so it's not worth arguing about, but it's at least worth discussing.

As far as manufacturers go, I'm with you. Maybe not to the same level as you, but I always root for my Chevrolets. I cheer for drivers/teams before the manufacturer, but all things equal I'll always pull for my Chevys over the rest.
Click to expand...

IDK anyone that is worried about ratings or attendance problems but it is the elephant in the room so it is worthy of discussion. I agree with you about good racing as it is like good art in that I can't explain it to you what it is but I know it when I see it.
 
Revman said:
No, not annoyed really, but how can you judge the quality when as you said, it is so subjective. It's like discussing what the best color is. The race is what it is. I don't mind when somebody calls a race boring. That's his or her opinion. However, when somebody deems that the quality of racing is bad, what the hell is that? I truly enjoy every race. Seriously. I am like a pig in sh!t every damn week. I love it. I have said that when I get a chance to go to a track, I am like a nine year old on Christmas morning. Not every race turns out the way I want obviously, but there is still so much to think about. When I went to Fontana, Jimmie won. My guys weren't great. My son and I discussed why we weren't great for a week. What he noticed in the car's ability to turn, etc. What we needed next, etc.

I will not deny that when my TRD Toyotas win, it is rainbows an unicorns. Makes my week. Balances the sh!t life throws at you from time to time. It's about passion. I will never apologize for that. To @Skoalbandit33 point regarding other sports....I see bigger dickheads at the stick and ball events than I do in the mirror. I like those guys, but I do get how they could rub some the wrong way.
Click to expand...

:cheers:

I hear what you're saying. But when Kyle Busch leads every lap of an Xfinity race and wins by a mile, I'm sure you can understand why most fans might call that a terrible race.

To me, racing is like pizza. No such thing as bad pizza. But when the sauce tastes like hell and the crust is burnt, I'm gonna wish it was better quality. I'll eat it, but I won't enjoy it much.
 
Revman said:
I sincerely hope those other sports have forums for you.

...and you enjoy your world as well. Every time I am at the track there are a few more than three others who are having a great time. I don't spend any time talking to the empty seats.
Click to expand...

It is good to know you don't speak with empty seats at the track because if you did you would end up with laryngitis.
 
Revman said:
I appreciate your post. I see the sport differently. There is much to enjoy in my opinion if one can wedge himself/herself away from the undefinable construct of "good racing." Races are organic--just like any contest. Appreciate the contest. Celebrate the winner. BS about who is better. The bitching is silly. This sport is great.

Manufacturer loyalty increases your chances of happiness at the end of a race. It keeps you in the race. Even when my manufacturer sucked (I have had some years), the anticipation of a revival kept me in the game.
Click to expand...

bart-simpson-generator.gif
 
2 Sweet said:
Yes, there was, and hopefully always will be discussions. And sometimes Rev seems like he's annoyed by fans who judge the "quality" of racing. Every race is always rainbows and unicorns especially if a TRD car wins.
Click to expand...

Regarding Nascar and just about anything else the 10-80-10 rule applies. There will always be 10% of the people who will be unhappy with a product or service no matter what and there will always be 10% of the people that will be happy even if they are being served crap. Then there is the 80% which base a decision on whether the product is any good or not. Rev has said before that Nascar brings joy to his household so obviously he loves Nascar and has no quibbles about its current format and bless his heart as that's OK. The overwhelming majority don't see things the way he does so I can understand how it could be frustrating.
 
aunty dive said:
^ This is confusing.

Weren't there all kinds of comments here this season about better racing resulting from aero and other changes?
Click to expand...

There sure were but that lasted for about 6-7 weeks and like Jimmie Johnson had predicted the teams would figure out a way to outsmart Nascar like they always do but you already knew that.
 
2 Sweet said:
:cheers:

I hear what you're saying. But when Kyle Busch leads every lap of an Xfinity race and wins by a mile, I'm sure you can understand why most fans might call that a terrible race.

To me, racing is like pizza. No such thing as bad pizza. But when the sauce tastes like hell and the crust is burnt, I'm gonna wish it was better quality. I'll eat it, but I won't enjoy it much.
Click to expand...

Shrub is like a Pizza with moldy cheese and anchovies.......:D
 
The post race inspections found slight problems with the rear end suspensions of the 48 and 78 cars. After the end of the race virtually all of the cars were doing the "tire clean jiggle". It was suggested by one driver that the reason for this was to bring the rear suspension back into spec. What all this points to is a variable camber suspension, as in F1, but done in a way to skirt the rules regarding fixed rear end components. Does anyone have any idea on how this is achieved? All the top teams are doing it, but what is "it"?
 
I must eat my words again, I guess NASCAR can make it up as they go along. They say they want a level playing field. They want to be fair with their penalties. So they change the rules after one week. How is this fair to all the teams that were within tolerance? This is a perfect example of why some people call NASCAR, the WWE of racing.
 
marksavoid said:
The post race inspections found slight problems with the rear end suspensions of the 48 and 78 cars. After the end of the race virtually all of the cars were doing the "tire clean jiggle". It was suggested by one driver that the reason for this was to bring the rear suspension back into spec. What all this points to is a variable camber suspension, as in F1, but done in a way to skirt the rules regarding fixed rear end components. Does anyone have any idea on how this is achieved? All the top teams are doing it, but what is "it"?
Click to expand...
Variable rear axle alignment / left-right wheelbase differences which result in an advantageous rear-steer arrangement that benefits turn-in and skews the chassis in order to achieve an aerodynamic gain. Camber settings at the rear are fixed. Welded. As unlike an F1 arrangement as you can get.

How? Movement in the truck arm attaching hardware.
 
Now , I don 't pretend to understand what went on here, but it seems all of the chase teams were wiggling their cars on the cool down lap to get them back into spec . It seems only a couple were checked and two were found to be still out a tiny bit. Clearly Nascar felt that all the cars were doing the same thing and they couldn't single out two.
 
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2 Sweet said:
To me, racing is like pizza. No such thing as bad pizza. But when the sauce tastes like hell and the crust is burnt, I'm gonna wish it was better quality. I'll eat it, but I won't enjoy it much.
Click to expand...

Very fair. Great analogy.

Skoalbandit33 said:
Rev has said before that Nascar brings joy to his household so obviously he loves Nascar and has no quibbles about its current format and bless his heart as that's OK. The overwhelming majority don't see things the way he does so I can understand how it could be frustrating.
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Not sure about majority necessarily, but this is very fair. Let's couple @2 Sweet post with this.....NFL.....I don't want to compare sports so much as the fandom. Those fans eat pizza because regardless of the perceived quality, it's pizza, and that's just what you do. Pizza is always going to be better than health food. Always. In NASCAR, we constantly consider whether or not we want pizza. How the hell can you ask, "Do I want pizza?"
 
Revman said:
Very fair. Great analogy.



Not sure about majority necessarily, but this is very fair. Let's couple @2 Sweet post with this.....NFL.....I don't want to compare sports so much as the fandom. Those fans eat pizza because regardless of the perceived quality, it's pizza, and that's just what you do. Pizza is always going to be better than health food. Always. In NASCAR, we constantly consider whether or not we want pizza. How the hell can you ask, "Do I want pizza?"
Click to expand...

Really ? Pizza offers zero excitement to me . But , I must say , the NFL has by far the best music . If the music in an NFL commercial doesn't get you excited , nothing will .
 
ted@economy said:
Now , I don 't pretend to understand what went on here, but it seems all of the chase teams were wiggling their cars on the cool down lap to get them back into spec . It seems only a couple were checked and two were found to be still out a tiny bit. Clearly Nascar felt that all the cars were doing the same thing and they couldn't single out two.
Click to expand...
Or they didn't like the results from the 2 they caught. Maybe some other team would not have got off so lightly.
 
Team Penske said:
Or they didn't like the results from the 2 they caught. Maybe some other team would not have got off so lightly.
Click to expand...
I think the two they caught were the only ones they looked at and they knew everyone else was likely pretty similar . Rather than penalize those two and not the rest , better to address the problem than the symptom . Maybe we will see a new rule addressing whatever this thing is that the teams are all doing to the rear ends . No big plot , just common sense .
 
All of the Chase cars will go through the laser inspection process from now on.
 
Revman said:
Very fair. Great analogy.



Not sure about majority necessarily, but this is very fair. Let's couple @2 Sweet post with this.....NFL.....I don't want to compare sports so much as the fandom. Those fans eat pizza because regardless of the perceived quality, it's pizza, and that's just what you do. Pizza is always going to be better than health food. Always. In NASCAR, we constantly consider whether or not we want pizza. How the hell can you ask, "Do I want pizza?"
Click to expand...

ted@economy said:
Really ? Pizza offers zero excitement to me . But , I must say , the NFL has by far the best music . If the music in an NFL commercial doesn't get you excited , nothing will .
Click to expand...

I like pigskin pigskin pizza

Revman said:
Very fair. Great analogy.



Not sure about majority necessarily, but this is very fair. Let's couple @2 Sweet post with this.....NFL.....I don't want to compare sports so much as the fandom. Those fans eat pizza because regardless of the perceived quality, it's pizza, and that's just what you do. Pizza is always going to be better than health food. Always. In NASCAR, we constantly consider whether or not we want pizza. How the hell can you ask, "Do I want pizza?"
Click to expand...

The problem for many is NASCAR pizza is like some cheap frozen kind that has no flavor and is hard to digest.
 
The problem with NASCAR is that they actually make pretty good pizza but a bunch of people won't eat it because they think Italian food is "illegitimate".
 
Acs said:
The problem with NASCAR is that they actually make pretty good pizza but a bunch of people won't eat it because they think Italian food is "illegitimate".
Click to expand...

Nascar may make terrific pizza but less and less people are consuming it each year to the point it will end up being a boutique brand.
 
I never got attached to manufactures and couldnt bat an eyelash at it. These race car drivers are people. I personally develop sentimental attachments to people, and not objects. It's the driver, the person, the human. Drive whatever you want, if I like YOU, I like you.

Where do these attachments for manufactures come from? Furthermore, why do some "choose" drivers based off a manufacture?

Meaning, why are some of you more attached to machine/representation of machine than man?

Curious how our perspectives differ in this manner.
 
jaqua19 said:
I never got attached to manufactures and couldnt bat an eyelash at it. These race car drivers are people. I personally develop sentimental attachments to people, and not objects. It's the driver, the person, the human. Drive whatever you want, if I like YOU, I like you.

Where do these attachments for manufactures come from? Furthermore, why do some "choose" drivers based off a manufacture?

Meaning, why are some of you more attached to machine/representation of machine than man?

Curious how our perspectives differ in this manner.
Click to expand...

@Revman would be a really good person to get perspective from as he is a big manufacturer fan.

In years past the cars were different and being a manufacturer fan meant huge rivalries and bragging rights but not today. I mean what are you going to say today? Oh gee whiz I really like the headlight decals on the the Toyota but those exhaust decals on the Ford are totally sexy.
 
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