The Attendance Thread

It's not just Nascar though. ARCA had pretty good attendance at Daytona in the middle 80's and 90's. Our local short track, Cajon Speedway was drawing 3,500 to 4,000 in the mid 90's. It went down to around 1,900 in the early 2,000's. Most of the short track racing seen on NBCSN doesn't have full stands. I think the old Copperworld Classic at PIR drew more fans than their Xfinity/Truck races does now.

I think a big part of the problem is the travel and lodging costs verses watching it on TV.
 
I'm not in the mood to point out attendance, but I do think attendance could be improved with a couple less tracks having two dates.

I'd say get rid of a Kansas race, Michigan race, and alternate the Texas/Vegas spring race.
 
JerryF said:
It's not just Nascar though. ARCA had pretty good attendance at Daytona in the middle 80's and 90's. Our local short track, Cajon Speedway was drawing 3,500 to 4,000 in the mid 90's. It went down to around 1,900 in the early 2,000's. Most of the short track racing seen on NBCSN doesn't have full stands. I think the old Copperworld Classic at PIR drew more fans than their Xfinity/Truck races does now.

I think a big part of the problem is the travel and lodging costs verses watching it on TV.
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My local short track has done well and draws cars from as far as 100 miles away. Crowds have remained consistent but the track has a good owner and promoter.

However I know a lot of short tracks that have closed or have poor car counts and will close. Stick and ball attendance seems to remain fairly good but auto racing has taken large losses.
 
JerryF said:
It's not just Nascar though. ARCA had pretty good attendance at Daytona in the middle 80's and 90's. Our local short track, Cajon Speedway was drawing 3,500 to 4,000 in the mid 90's. It went down to around 1,900 in the early 2,000's. Most of the short track racing seen on NBCSN doesn't have full stands. I think the old Copperworld Classic at PIR drew more fans than their Xfinity/Truck races does now.

I think a big part of the problem is the travel and lodging costs verses watching it on TV.
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Yep Attendance isn't much of a money maker these days. It was before televised racing came along back in the day. But the tracks in Nascar, get a large cut of the TV money. Many tracks when remodeling are replacing the old and outdated seating, many sections removed didn't have good sight lines, and they were replaced with lounge areas, and front row RV fee parking for the most part. Tracks have also added wider seating, some tracks have added tables in front for the smaller crowds that attend.
 
StandOnIt said:
Yep Attendance isn't much of a money maker these days. It was before televised racing came along back in the day. But the tracks in Nascar, get a large cut of the TV money. Many tracks when remodeling are replacing the old and outdated seating, many sections removed didn't have good sight lines, and they were replaced with lounge areas, and front row RV fee parking for the most part. Tracks have also added wider seating, some tracks have added tables in front for the smaller crowds that attend.
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It is highly likely that in the not to distant future the tracks will become more dependent on gate revenue. A blasé attitude today could cause a world of hurt tomorrow.
 
IanMcVittie said:
It is highly likely that in the not to distant future the tracks will become more dependent on gate revenue. A blasé attitude today could cause a world of hurt tomorrow.
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just like the boy who cried wolf huh. :D sure glad for the daily reminders the sky is falling. :p
 
StandOnIt said:
just like the boy who cried wolf huh. :D sure glad for the daily reminders the sky is falling. :p
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Think of it more like preparedness. You read the signs and formulate a plan based upon the best info available. Or you can do nothing and wait and see what happens.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Think of it more like preparedness. You read the signs and formulate a plan based upon the best info available. Or you can do nothing and wait and see what happens.
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oh ok, think if it like you are the designated Nascar prepper. :p:D Hey you can start by not only turning off the sound while the race is going but shazam, turn the whole thing off
 
StandOnIt said:
oh ok, think if it like you are the designated Nascar prepper. :p:D Hey you can start by not only turning off the sound while the race is going but shazam, turn the whole thing off
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Why would I want to do that? IMO it makes sense for the tracks to become more self reliant and not to count so heavily on broadcast revenue. Promoting your facilitiy and attracting fans is never a bad idea no matter what!
 
IanMcVittie said:
Why would I want to do that? IMO it makes sense for the tracks to become more self reliant and not to count so heavily on broadcast revenue. Promoting your facilitiy and attracting fans is never a bad idea no matter what!
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well until that day happens 5 or 6 years from now, it's a good prepper idea to remind people who on a racing forum every day. :cuckoo: I don't think you have any ISC or Speedway stock do ya? If ya do you should have plenty of time to sell it I would think.
 
StandOnIt said:
well until that day happens 5 or 6 years from now, it's a good prepper idea to remind people who on a racing forum every day. :cuckoo: I don't think you have any ISC or Speedway stock do ya? If ya do you should have plenty of time to sell it I would think.
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It’s just good business to forecast and plan for contingencies. If promoting your track in order to have more fans attend was a bad thing I could see why you were agitated but where’s the harm? This is the attendance thread so it is ok to talk about matters relating to attendance. If my musings don’t suit you don’t read or respond. In fact I wish you wouldn’t!!!
 
Towmater said:
Gluck wrote an article defending the loss of 50%+ percent of the people that used to go to NASCAR events. He even states that a crowd of 40,000 people is OK. That’s all I needed to read. The status quoe is fine with him. He never stops to think or touch upon what happened to all the fans that went away, what caused them to go away, and how NASCAR might be able to get them back. NASCAR collapsed under a weight of apathy from its leadership. In response to the issues surrounding the sport, NASCAR’s leadership employed various gimmicks in a lack luster attempt to stem the flow of fans leaving. As much as the everything is OK in NASCARland crowd would like to marginalize the voices of those that point out the ills of the sport, and shout that all is well - I think we all know that it isn’t and hasn’t been for many years. Yesterday’s crowd was a prime example of the ills of the sport and it was broadcast on network TV for all to see.
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Maybe, just maybe Nascar can see the day when a few thousand fans at an event
and millions watching on some type of media is more profitable. No worries about local hotels gouging the fans, no problems with traffic in and out. Not so much staff to pay etc.
Lots of good things about fewer fans.
 
IanMcVittie said:
It is highly likely that in the not to distant future the tracks will become more dependent on gate revenue. A blasé attitude today could cause a world of hurt tomorrow.
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If tracks become dependent on gate revenue they will close. That era is now gone for good.
All those people that tail gated are now living in homes.
 
IanMcVittie said:
People complain about fans noticing thousands and thousands of empty seats and talking about it on the attendance thread. SMH
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Although it is somewhat ironic that the empty seat complainers do it from their easy chairs or the comfort of their Mom's basement on Sunday afternoons.

Buy a ticket and solve the problem is the best answer that I can come up with.
 
I get the 35k attendance at some tracks but not Bristol. I’ll believe there are less than 40k in the stands when I see it.
 
Ok I get where TV money will bail out Cup but the small tracks are gate dependent that’s why we have no more in Oklahoma. If the small tracks die where will the drivers come from?You can’t just dismiss low attendance out of hand.
 
The Night Race at Bristol is too big of a draw, imo. Even with tickets $20-40 lower for the Spring it wasn't even a question in my mind which Bristol race I wanted to attend this year...

If Bristol had only the night race I'm sure they'd do fine. That's still a huuuuuge draw. Gotta be in top 5 most-attended races each season these days.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Although it is somewhat ironic that the empty seat complainers do it from their easy chairs or the comfort of their Mom's basement on Sunday afternoons.

Buy a ticket and solve the problem is the best answer that I can come up with.
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We used to buy a LOT of tickets until we were priced out of the game.
 
AuzGrams said:
35k seems pretty low. I figure Bristol should be able to draw 60k 70k for any Cup race.

I'm lost why ratings are up and attendance is down.
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That and I also think the average Cup race still draws 50k+. If anything, I do think it's more the short tracks that tend to fall short of those numbers - perhaps because they're more out of the way compared to more modern tracks which were built in or near large metro areas.
 
AuzGrams said:
35k seems pretty low. I figure Bristol should be able to draw 60k 70k for any Cup race.

I'm lost why ratings are up and attendance is down.
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The tracks just can't draw the fans like the old days mainly because the young people ( 30 and under) are living in their parents basement just can't afford it. But cell phones rule.
 
Team Penske said:
The tracks just can't draw the fans like the old days mainly because the young people ( 30 and under) are living in their parents basement just can't afford it. But cell phones rule.
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Money is a big issue and young people just don't like NASCAR
 
Team Penske said:
The tracks just can't draw the fans like the old days mainly because the young people ( 30 and under) are living in their parents basement just can't afford it. But cell phones rule.
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Less than 40k would literally be like the "old days"; when I was in diapers. I doubt there's been a crowd smaller than 40k at Bristol since the early to mid 1980's. I've watched a lot of older races on Youtube and Bob Jenkins usually referenced the crowd. Everything I remember is 50k+ and that includes '87 and '88.

Given how many seats Bristol has it will be a something no one can hide from. It'll be different than the Brickyard imo because Bristol is the heart of what NASCAR was. I was optimistic and hoped for something in the 50-60k range given the nice weather and uptick in ratings.

There will be a lot of water cooler talk on Monday regarding attendance if we like it or not. If nothing else 1 date at Bristol with it being the night race would hopefully get some energy back. It has to be a weird feeling sitting in there with all those empty seats.
 
Team Penske said:
The tracks just can't draw the fans like the old days mainly because the young people ( 30 and under) are living in their parents basement just can't afford it. But cell phones rule.
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And I for one don't know how or what NASCAR can do to fix that. All racing is suffering as best I can tell. NASCAR may continue to shrink, or maybe it will level off, and they will know what audience size they have to deal with. All any fan can do is continue to support the sport and spend money with sponsors. I tell all my former race buddies how good the racing has been the last year or so. NASCAR is still the greatest stock car show on earth. I believe fans that love the stuff will always support it. I guess I'm like the Cubs fans, they're gonna love the Cubs win or lose. I haven't agreed with or liked everything NASCAR has done in the last few years, but in my view things are looking up. These are my reasons why I have very little tolerance for the constant naysaying trolls. If you pay much attention to their drivel, they don't seem to know much about the sport. Fans? Not much.
 
kyle18fan said:
Money is a big issue and young people just don't like NASCAR
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They sold their souls to TV. There was nothing like going to a live NASCAR race before the boom and during the boom and even a few years after. After all the sporting events I've been to nothing comes close to some of the races I've attended. The excitement and passion that existed within NASCAR was tangible even before it blew up in the mid 90's But now things have become similar to what open wheel racing faced during the split compliments of Tony George. Although, TV had some input in that too given NASCAR's success on ovals. Without ABC's ties to the Indy 500 and thus the IRL the series would have had no chance. IndyCar races at Pocono and Nazareth were fun as hell back in the day.

There's still a market for racing. But you have to create some energy and excitement for people to care. Sports fans still love to spend money on a day of drinking/partying, tailgating, playing corn hole and soaking in the sun. While attendance might be down in other sports given the current social climate it's not down to the extent that NASCAR has seen. At its core, the sport is still great but it has no mojo right now. I still enjoy attending because I'm a sports junkie with a high interest in racing/NASCAR. To me the live sports experience is everything. If it gets to the point of being awkwardly not fun then I'll re-invest in other things. A Phillies 12 game season ticket package is looking like a sound investment either way...
 
Ratings for Cup and Trucks have been up at most races though. You'd think attendance would level off, but it's been down 5-10% at most races.

They gotta cut off like I've said before: a Texas/Las Vegas race (alternate it), Kansas, Michigan. Add Gateway, Road America, Eldora.

Use some sort of tarps in the turns for the Bristol spring race and find a way to sell out the sides 50-60K again. Maybe Texas can cut out seats or use tarps as well.

I honestly think if they lowered the ticket prices a bit more especially in the higher up expensive seats you would get a few more people back. I notice many tracks the lower rows actually seem more full.
 
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mack said:
And I for one don't know how or what NASCAR can do to fix that. All racing is suffering as best I can tell. NASCAR may continue to shrink, or maybe it will level off, and they will know what audience size they have to deal with. All any fan can do is continue to support the sport and spend money with sponsors. I tell all my former race buddies how good the racing has been the last year or so. NASCAR is still the greatest stock car show on earth. I believe fans that love the stuff will always support it. I guess I'm like the Cubs fans, they're gonna love the Cubs win or lose. I haven't agreed with or liked everything NASCAR has done in the last few years, but in my view things are looking up. These are my reasons why I have very little tolerance for the constant naysaying trolls. If you pay much attention to their drivel, they don't seem to know much about the sport. Fans? Not much.
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When youlook at Nascar and compare it to other sports, Nascar is still in good shape. The NHL a few years ago went all out building new Arenas and yet they still hold under 24,000 fans and are selling beer at $8-12 a cup. BB have similar size courts and so their seating is simile.
Nascar went ahead and killed off their original short tracks and went to the 1.5 milers so they could have more seating and a larger infield parking. Worked for a little while but the racing isn't what fans wanted to see and so as the costs went up the number of fans went down. We call it right sizing.
Nascar will eventually give in and give the fans more of what they want. That could be done with changing existing tracks to get rid of those long straights or go to new tracks that are more attractive such as 1 milers and road course or even combinations.
 
AuzGrams said:
Ratings for Cup and Trucks have been up at most races though. You'd think attendance would level off, but it's been down 5-10% at most races.

They gotta cut off like I've said before: a Texas/Las Vegas race (alternate it), Kansas, Michigan. Add Gateway, Road America, Eldora.

Use some sort of tarps in the turns for the Bristol spring race and find a way to sell out the sides 50-60K again. Maybe Texas can cut out seats or use tarps as well.



I honestly think if they lowered the ticket prices a bit more especially in the higher up expensive seats you would get a few more people back. I notice many tracks the lower rows actually seem more full.
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Who cares about empty seats? The cars race on the track and in my opinion the tracks are to big. Dega and Daytona sell out but that is because of the predictability of the big one and I believe that is the draw for those tracks, not the actual racing itself. 1.25 should be the largest and then should also have a chicane to bust up the straights. JMO
 
Team Penske said:
Who cares about empty seats? The cars race on the track and in my opinion the tracks are to big. Dega and Daytona sell out but that is because of the predictability of the big one and I believe that is the draw for those tracks, not the actual racing itself. 1.25 should be the largest and then should also have a chicane to bust up the straights. JMO
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KodiakRusty89 said:
They sold their souls to TV. There was nothing like going to a live NASCAR race before the boom and during the boom and even a few years after. After all the sporting events I've been to nothing comes close to some of the races I've attended. The excitement and passion that existed within NASCAR was tangible even before it blew up in the mid 90's But now things have become similar to what open wheel racing faced during the split compliments of Tony George. Although, TV had some input in that too given NASCAR's success on ovals. Without ABC's ties to the Indy 500 and thus the IRL the series would have had no chance. IndyCar races at Pocono and Nazareth were fun as hell back in the day.

There's still a market for racing. But you have to create some energy and excitement for people to care. Sports fans still love to spend money on a day of drinking/partying, tailgating, playing corn hole and soaking in the sun. While attendance might be down in other sports given the current social climate it's not down to the extent that NASCAR has seen. At its core, the sport is still great but it has no mojo right now. I still enjoy attending because I'm a sports junkie with a high interest in racing/NASCAR. To me the live sports experience is everything. If it gets to the point of being awkwardly not fun then I'll re-invest in other things. A Phillies 12 game season ticket package is looking like a sound investment either way...
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For me there used to be electricity in the air when approaching the track on race day but toward the end it was drudgery which is why I stopped attending races. I experienced Nascar when it was a rough and tumble niche series in the 80’s and through its growth period in the 90’s and 00’s until the beginning of the bust and that was enough for me.

At the beginning of the year I said I expected Nascar to average about 35k for most races but little did I realize the future is today! Others have said that around 35k for a Nascar race is normal but for how long? When does 30k and 25k become normal?

Some folks like to compare NASCAR’s downtown to other sports but there is no comparison. Nascar has suffered huge losses long after the boom ended. I would like to see Nascar stabilize and start to grow modestly as has happened with the TV ratings.

Most people are unaware of TV ratings as it is something you have to look for. Attendance on the other hand is right in front of you and there is no hiding from it. People will say that poor attendance doesn’t impact their enjoyment of a race and it is the same for me. However the optics of poor attendance is awful especially if someone is checking out the series. To someone new to Nascar seeing empty seats screams something is wrong.
 
Cant talk about lacking attendance before talking about price gouging before fans can even get to the track.

NASCAR has a majority blue collar fan base that has an average $70,000 HHI and 2 out of 5 have kids under 18yo. You think the masses are going to pay $300+/person to stay overnight in a ****** ass hotel you are out of your mind.

 
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Apparently the $300 chain hotel rates are the same as those being charged by those chains in Minneapolis this weekend.

The fact is that lodging prices are much higher anywhere significant events are being held. NASCAR races fall into that category.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I experienced Nascar when it was a rough and tumble niche series in the 80’s and through its growth period in the 90’s and 00’s until the beginning of the bust and that was enough for me.
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Enough?

One wonders what motivates you to continue here on a daily basis a decade or so later.
 
aunty dive said:
Enough?

One wonders what motivates you to continue here on a daily basis a decade or so later.
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Ian has a POV, perhaps it was a bad experience with a fan at a NASCAR track. :D

His provocative and passive aggressive tone is a counterpoint to many opinions on here. IMHO
 
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