The future of the WEC

Doc Austin said:
Here's the new Ginetta: http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/item/146681-ginetta-takes-wraps-off-lmp1-challenger

Great looking care except the fin. I don't know what they can do to make that part of the car look any better. The bodywork is so tucked in and small back there that the fins look humongous. Still, I'm willing to overlook the fin if we have a decent, competitive grid.


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Great livery overall, but I think that's what makes the fin stand out more. I agree that the fin looks pretty annoying on a lot of prototypes, you really have to work it into the livery well to make it look alright. I think the Cadillac DPi teams all do a good job of that. I'd love to see a fin-less prototype like the Peugeot 909 HDi FAP again. Gorgeous car.

Hopefully this car is a success and other customers besides Manor pick it up. Three Dallara BR1s are already going to be out there. Can't wait to see Rebellion's ORECAs.
 
2018 Full Season ELMS Entry List

35 prototypes? Are you kidding? That's going to be a hell of a show.

I don't know why they are even bothering to run 6 GTE cars. That's not enough cars to have a decent field. It would be better to have an all 35 car prototype grid.
 
Doc Austin said:
2018 Full Season ELMS Entry List

35 prototypes? Are you kidding? That's going to be a hell of a show.

I don't know why they are even bothering to run 6 GTE cars. That's not enough cars to have a decent field. It would be better to have an all 35 car prototype grid.
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TF Sport and Beechdean AMR left for the WEC and British GT, respectively. The champ still goes to Le Mans the next year so there's reason to run it. Wish it were larger though.

LMP2 is going to be really good, but I don't know why they gave G-Drive dispensation to run all Gold/Platinum.
 
Doc Austin said:
2018 Rebellion LMP1 breaks cover: https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/134685/rebellion-releases-first-look-at-its-new-lmp1-car

Decent looking car and I'm sure Rebellion will give it a good ride. The big question is will the FIA give it a fair break on BOP?

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Gorgeous car IMO.

The EoT tables this season are supposed to equate the top power unit in hybrid, turbocharged, and naturally-aspirated subcategories this season and the Gibson is the only NA engine so I think Rebellion will be okay on that front. The 4.2L LMP2 Gibson engine was already very quick and very durable, and I'd expect an upgraded 4.5L to be just as reliable. The 07 is a very good base chassis and, unlike Toyota, the privateers will be able to develop their aero throughout the season. I'm really hopeful for this program. I think Rebellion, once they get their car shaken down and kinks worked out, and SMP Racing are going to be really good this season.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Gorgeous car IMO.

The EoT tables this season are supposed to equate the top power unit in hybrid, turbocharged, and naturally-aspirated subcategories this season and the Gibson is the only NA engine so I think Rebellion will be okay on that front..
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Well, supposed to equate. If Rebellion starts giving the Toyota a lot of heat, you can bet there will be a BOP adjustment. The FIA is not going to allow their only manufacturer to lose. Toyota isn't going to hang around long if they do not get a favorable BOP.


The 4.2L LMP2 Gibson engine was already very quick and very durable............
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I've never heard of one blowing up.

....... and I'd expect an upgraded 4.5L to be just as reliable.
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Gibson seems to know what they are doing.

The 07 is a very good base chassis and, unlike Toyota, the privateers will be able to develop their aero throughout the season.
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Remember, the FIA can change the BOP any time they please, They changed it two years ago at LeMans on Friday morning! I will be happy to be wrong, but I don't believe the FIA is going to allow privateers to challenge Toyota.

I'm really hopeful for this program. I think Rebellion, once they get their car shaken down and kinks worked out, and SMP Racing are going to be really good this season
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I hope we have a good year, but I have my doubts the FIA will allow anyone to get near the Toyotas. I think Toyota would have never come back unless they were all but guaranteed a LeMans win.
 
Doc Austin said:
Well, supposed to equate. If Rebellion starts giving the Toyota a lot of heat, you can bet there will be a BOP adjustment. The FIA is not going to allow their only manufacturer to lose. Toyota isn't going to hang around long if they do not get a favorable BOP.




I've never heard of one blowing up.



Gibson seems to know what they are doing.



Remember, the FIA can change the BOP any time they please, They changed it two years ago at LeMans on Friday morning! I will be happy to be wrong, but I don't believe the FIA is going to allow privateers to challenge Toyota.



I hope we have a good year, but I have my doubts the FIA will allow anyone to get near the Toyotas. I think Toyota would have never come back unless they were all but guaranteed a LeMans win.
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I haven't seen anything specific for this year, but in past seasons they've only been able to make one LMP1 EoT adjustment during the season and that's it. I know they said they won't make any adjustment this season until after Le Mans, so what we see during test and at the Prologue is what we're gonna get for the first two races. I don't know if the full tables are out yet or not but the first few numbers are a big change from prior seasons.

As such, the Toyota TS050 Hybrid has been given only 35.2kg of fuel to use per stint (down from 44.1kg) in 2018, compared to the 52.9kg the less fuel-efficient privateer cars are able to burn.

The non-hybrids have also been allocated almost twice as much energy (210.9mj) to use in a single lap of the Circuit de la Sarthe as Toyota (124.9mj per lap).
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https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/n...ine-speed-deficit-to-privateer-lmp1s-1002634/
 
FLRacingFan said:
I haven't seen anything specific for this year, but in past seasons they've only been able to make one LMP1 EoT adjustment during the season and that's it.
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Two years ago at Lemans they changed the GTLM BOP in the middle of the race week. We've seen the FIA do this sort of thing before. I mean, they have done it a lot.

I'm betting Toyota agreed to stay only if the FIA assured them an advantage. If you were running Toyota, would you keep racing your $200 million dollar cars if you were at a disadvantage to a bunch of teams most of the car buying public has never heard of? Toyota simply cannot risk that. Toyota is in this to sell cars, and if they get beat by nobody, that's not going to make anyone run out and buy a Camry.

I know they said they won't make any adjustment this season until after Le Mans,
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Over the years they have said a lot of things that have turned out to be BS.

What do you think they will do if Toyota is off the pace going into Lemans? Would the FIA/ACO really let the privateers go in with a chance to win? More importantly, will they allow their only manufacturer a chance to lose? It's very important for everyone that Toyota wins. There will be no commercial benefit for the FIA/ACO if Bykolles (for example) wins, and you can imagine the fallout at Toyota if they can't win Lemans against a bunch of underfunded privateers.

I don't even understand why Toyota is bothering. There is no way for them to win, even if they win. No one will be surprised if they crush the privateers. They are supposed to crush the privateers. If Toyota wins, how do they advertise they beat no one? If Toyota loses, well, that sure wasn't supposed to happen, was it?

......... so what we see during test and at the Prologue is what we're gonna get for the first two races.
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I haven't seen the testing times, but I will bet Toyota is on top. Testing is sort of irrelevant anyway because no one wants to show their hand and risk a BOP bitch slapping.

I don't know if the full tables are out yet or not but the first few numbers are a big change from prior seasons.


https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/n...ine-speed-deficit-to-privateer-lmp1s-1002634/
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Ok, now I am just being cynical, but I'm not surprised Toyota is downplaying their chances. Why risk a BOP adjustment by saying you are going to slaughter everyone?

However, Conway has never been one to talk any kind of smack at all, so this could be good news for race fans. If Toyota goes in as the underdog and has a substantial mountain to climb, I will be all for them. What I don't want is for Toyota to win their first Lemans by smacking around a field of slow, underfunded cars. I want Toyota to earn it, and I am sure they feel that way too.
 
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While we are talking about the future of the WEC, I think they are going about it the wrong way. The FIA/ACO's never ending dependence on manufacturers has been responsible for the also never ending collapse of sportscar racing. Just when it starts to get good, whatever manufacturer isn't winning pulls out citing "too expensive" as an excuse, when they were the ones running the price up to begin with. Then another, and finally, all you will have is one manufacturer, kind of like now.

Right now with the privateer LMP1 we have the chance to come up with a workable solution. First, we start with the P2 chassis, because that car makes sense and the Rebellion is based on the Oreca P2 anyway. On the motor front, all we need is to require 5.5 or 6 liter production based V8s, because every manufacturer has one that will work, or at least one they can either bore out or destroke. Manufacturers will run their own bodywork kits, but those rules will have to be extremely tight so no one gains and advantage. We also don't want the cars looking like F1 with turning vanes, vortex generators and wolly bobbles sticking out all over everywhere. We want the cars to look sleek and sexy.

Manufacturers must make current spec engines and bodywork available to all teams. Equal access to equipment must be assured. Privateers will thrive in this environment, and if a manufacturer leaves, teams can just buy another motor and bodywork kit, or keep running what they have as long as it's competitive.

While we are at it, let's ban manufacturer teams and then all the will do is make money selling motors and kits instead of bleeding it like just happened to Audi, Porsche, and Nissan, and you can bet Toyota is throwing a lot of money at it still. If a manufacturer still wants to run a team, they can do so as long as they can supply an equal share of the field with current spec equipment.

Like this, everyone runs at the same weight, same size air restrictor, same everything, and there will be no need for a BOP. You either make it work or you don't. If the cars get too fast, everyone runs the same size air restrictor. No one can complain because they know the rules going in.

I'm afraid what they are going to do instead is still allow the ridiculously complex and expensive hybrid units that only the manufacturers can make work and afford, and then another complex set of always changing BOP adjustments. Then, whatever privateers show up won't have a chance, kind of like every other year except maybe this one.
 
Doc Austin said:
Two years ago at Lemans they changed the GTLM BOP in the middle of the race week. We've seen the FIA do this sort of thing before. I mean, they have done it a lot.

I'm betting Toyota agreed to stay only if the FIA assured them an advantage. If you were running Toyota, would you keep racing your $200 million dollar cars if you were at a disadvantage to a bunch of teams most of the car buying public has never heard of? Toyota simply cannot risk that. Toyota is in this to sell cars, and if they get beat by nobody, that's not going to make anyone run out and buy a Camry.



Over the years they have said a lot of things that have turned out to be BS.

What do you think they will do if Toyota is off the pace going into Lemans? Would the FIA/ACO really let the privateers go in with a chance to win? More importantly, will they allow their only manufacturer a chance to lose? It's very important for everyone that Toyota wins. There will be no commercial benefit for the FIA/ACO if Bykolles (for example) wins, and you can imagine the fallout at Toyota if they can't win Lemans against a bunch of underfunded privateers.

I don't even understand why Toyota is bothering. There is no way for them to win, even if they win. No one will be surprised if they crush the privateers. They are supposed to crush the privateers. If Toyota wins, how do they advertise they beat no one? If Toyota loses, well, that sure wasn't supposed to happen, was it?



I haven't seen the testing times, but I will bet Toyota is on top. Testing is sort of irrelevant anyway because no one wants to show their hand and risk a BOP bitch slapping.



Ok, now I am just being cynical, but I'm not surprised Toyota is downplaying their chances. Why risk a BOP adjustment by saying you are going to slaughter everyone?

However, Conway has never been one to talk any kind of smack at all, so this could be good news for race fans. If Toyota goes in as the underdog and has a substantial mountain to climb, I will be all for them. What I don't want is for Toyota to win their first Lemans by smacking around a field of slow, underfunded cars. I want Toyota to earn it, and I am sure they feel that way too.
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GTLM is different because it's in the rulebook they can adjust from race-to-race, and they do go race-to-race now after instituting auto BoP and they also have a separate Le Mans-specific BoP. And the class is fundamentally different because you're taking "road" cars and turning them into race cars. LMP1 is more "run what ya brung" where they set specs and regs and then the teams can build to it. LMP2 is the same way - ORECA were by far the best chassis for Le Mans last year, Ligier and Dallara well beyond that, and the Riley was just a total dud. No BoP was performed and the ORECAs swept the class podium and five of the top six overall. In the past in LMP1, it was mostly balancing gasoline (Toyota and Porsche) versus diesel (Audi). I think twice they made a post-Le Mans EoT adjustment there.

Toyota are openly advocating for this though, because they know if they're six seconds a lap quicker at Le Mans no one is going to care. No, they're not beating other OEMs but it's still a marketing point to say "Hey, look at how good our hybrid is, we get half as much allowable energy and fuel flow as our competitors and we're still just as quick and more efficient".
 
Please tell me this is a joke: http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/04/01/toyota-set-to-field-wide-tail-ts050-for-le-mans.html

Unless this is a hoax, Toyota will be going into the 24hrs with a million dollar car up against a bunch of underfunded privateers. You can bet the ACO is going to give Toyota a favorable BOP or they would have never agreed to come back. Even that, though, apparently isn't enough. Now that they are racing against essentially nobody, Toyota has to turn the screws even harder and do something this outrageous, just to beat privateers.

Man, I get it that they have to do everything they can to beat their competitors in the market place, but they are not even there. Building something that far out there when they already have a multi million dollar advantage, plus Alonso, just reeks of sheer desperation to get the win while the sun is shining and before any real competition comes back.

This is the history of what manufacturers do. They use their unlimited funding to do things like this, and against that the privateers have no chance. Toyota could have been ran what they had and took their chances, but they are going to win Lemans no matter what, and they don't seem to care how hollow it's going to be. You're up against nobody. Can't Toyota see how desperate they look? Sure you want to win Lemans. Why don't you wait until 2020 when it might mean something?

It's not enough that they had to get Alonso. That wasn't enough of an advantage and now they have to build this dumb**** looking thing just so they can run the score up. The worst part of this whole thing to me is that the privateers have finally gotten their chance, and you have one stubborn manufacturer who just won't go away and let them have their day, all because they could win the race when they were up against equal opponents in Porsche and Audi.

I really do hope all the Toyotas blow up on the parade lap and an LMP2 car wins Lemans. Both Toyota and the ACO deserve that kind of embarrassment for the way they are trying to stack the deck.


Toyota_TS050_AF_1.jpg
 
Doc Austin said:
Please tell me this is a joke: http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/04/01/toyota-set-to-field-wide-tail-ts050-for-le-mans.html

Unless this is a hoax, Toyota will be going into the 24hrs with a million dollar car up against a bunch of underfunded privateers. You can bet the ACO is going to give Toyota a favorable BOP or they would have never agreed to come back. Even that, though, apparently isn't enough. Now that they are racing against essentially nobody, Toyota has to turn the screws even harder and do something this outrageous, just to beat privateers.

Man, I get it that they have to do everything they can to beat their competitors in the market place, but they are not even there. Building something that far out there when they already have a multi million dollar advantage, plus Alonso, just reeks of sheer desperation to get the win while the sun is shining and before any real competition comes back.

This is the history of what manufacturers do. They use their unlimited funding to do things like this, and against that the privateers have no chance. Toyota could have been ran what they had and took their chances, but they are going to win Lemans no matter what, and they don't seem to care how hollow it's going to be. You're up against nobody. Can't Toyota see how desperate they look? Sure you want to win Lemans. Why don't you wait until 2020 when it might mean something?

It's not enough that they had to get Alonso. That wasn't enough of an advantage and now they have to build this dumb**** looking thing just so they can run the score up. The worst part of this whole thing to me is that the privateers have finally gotten their chance, and you have one stubborn manufacturer who just won't go away and let them have their day, all because they could win the race when they were up against equal opponents in Porsche and Audi.

I really do hope all the Toyotas blow up on the parade lap and an LMP2 car wins Lemans. Both Toyota and the ACO deserve that kind of embarrassment for the way they are trying to stack the deck.


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It's April Fools' lol. DSC does it every year. They have four or five stories like that up right now.
 
WEC at Sebring in 2019 becomes a Friday undercard support race, followed by the "real" 12-Hour on Saturday...

Sebring WEC race moved to Friday, reduced to 1000 miles

Next year's Sebring round of the FIA World Endurance Championship superseason will be a 1000-mile race on the Friday before the traditional 12-hour IMSA event.

The change from the originally-announced 1500-mile race taking place straight after the finish of the Sebring 12 Hours follows a visit to last month's IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship enduro at the Florida venue by the WEC organisational team.

This culminated in a meeting between officials from both series after the 2018 Sebring event last month.

It was also announced that the WEC teams will operate out of a new, secondary pitlane to be built on the Ullmann or back straight leading into the final corner.

The WEC race, which will run for a maximum of eight hours, will start in the afternoon and run into darkness. A full schedule for the IMSA-WEC doubleheader leading up to the 12 Hours on the Saturday of race week will be announced at a later date....
 
LewTheShoe said:
WEC at Sebring in 2019 becomes a Friday undercard support race, followed by the "real" 12-Hour on Saturday...

Sebring WEC race moved to Friday, reduced to 1000 miles

Next year's Sebring round of the FIA World Endurance Championship superseason will be a 1000-mile race on the Friday before the traditional 12-hour IMSA event.

The change from the originally-announced 1500-mile race taking place straight after the finish of the Sebring 12 Hours follows a visit to last month's IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship enduro at the Florida venue by the WEC organisational team.

This culminated in a meeting between officials from both series after the 2018 Sebring event last month.

It was also announced that the WEC teams will operate out of a new, secondary pitlane to be built on the Ullmann or back straight leading into the final corner.

The WEC race, which will run for a maximum of eight hours, will start in the afternoon and run into darkness. A full schedule for the IMSA-WEC doubleheader leading up to the 12 Hours on the Saturday of race week will be announced at a later date....
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This is the right decision. Everyone would've headed home or been too hungover to care on Sunday. Starting close to 1 AM was pretty dumb too.

I'm guessing Prototype Challenge is the support series that gets the boot.
 
FLRacingFan said:
This is the right decision. Everyone would've headed home or been too hungover to care on Sunday. Starting close to 1 AM was pretty dumb too.

I'm guessing Prototype Challenge is the support series that gets the boot.
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I'm guessing they could run PC on Sunday.
 
Doc Austin said:
I'm guessing they could run PC on Sunday.
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I don't think the paddock space will be there. The WEC pit lane will be on the right-hand side of the Ulmann Straight, where some of the support series paddock area is. And they can't arrive and unload on Saturday when the 12 Hours is going on. I figure either PC or Porsche GT3 Cup will be out in the cold.
 
That would be a shame. I remember the 1997 FIA GT/PSR Oktoberfest event. It was five solid days of non stop racing with FIA GT,PSR GT, PSR World Sportscars, Panoz Women's GT, Formula 2000 and vintage racing. I probably missed something too. It was a righteous weekof racing.
 
Doc Austin said:
That would be a shame. I remember the 1997 FIA GT/PSR Oktoberfest event. It was five solid days of non stop racing with FIA GT,PSR GT, PSR World Sportscars, Panoz Women's GT, Formula 2000 and vintage racing. I probably missed something too. It was a righteous weekof racing.
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With any hope they'll go Tuesday-Saturday and fit them in somewhere. LMP3 should be even bigger next year with the MPC class disappearing, and GT3 Cup put on a great show this year.
 
I'de like to see them integrate the P3 cars into the Weather Tech series, sort of like to old GTP and Camel Lights running together. Let the GT cars have their own race. As a prototype fan, I'de like to see more prototypes and less GT cars, so a big field of prototypes appeals to me. They could run the prototypes and GT together in the enduros.
 
Holy cow. The FIA has the LMP1 BOP so far out of whack that Toyota has a five second advantage....per lap, that is.

Toyota Leads Prologue After Eight Hours

Five seconds? IMSA is coming under scathing criticism for having the P2 cars being a measly once second off at Sebring, but at least they got it that close. Five seconds is so far off that you almost have to believe it is deliberate.

Assuming the FIA sticks to their guns, they have snookered the privateers and used them to their advantage yet again. Remember, Toyota would be running alone without the privateers, and the only reason they came to begin with was because the FIA assured them a fair set of rules.

So, the FIA saved it's putrid, poorly (as in no) supported P1 division, and still managed to be completely in the bag for their only manufacturer. Meanwhile, the privateers invested millions to be five seconds off the pace when they were promised they would have a fair shot.

This is the FIA's idea of a fair shot? Imagine how much bigger the gap would have been if it were Peugeot or Renault.

IMSA has come under extreme fire because the fastest P2 car was a second off the pace at Sebring, though they still finished on the lead lap. IMSA has also promised to fix it, which so far the FIA has not admitted they got it so horribly wrong.

I can almost understand you could get such a complex set of regulations a second off, but five seconds? How does the FIA think they can have any credibility after a fiasco like this?

But, hey, let's give them the benefit of doubt and hope they address this with a fair BOP before the race. I'm going to go on record with a resounding no.

Meanwhile, what do you do as a privateer like Rebellion, who was competitive in P2? Are they really any better off doing P1 at five seconds off the pack? I'de say no way. If I own a privateer team, I get all the rest together and stage a walkout, or maybe even come on over to IMSA, where we truly do want them to thrive and be competitive.\

Some of you may remember that all along I expressed doubts the privateers would get a fair shake, but even I am surprised the FIA would so blatantly screw the privateers whom without they would have nothing.
 
FIA World Endurance Championship

A summary of the ongoing discussions regarding the 2020 Technical Regulations for the highest category of FIA WEC was presented as follows:

  • Targeted budget of one quarter of current LMP1 budgets.
  • Freedom of design for brands based on a ‘Hypercar’ concept.
A plan to encourage the participation of female drivers in the FIA World Endurance Championship was approved.

Details on both points above will be presented during the week of the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
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https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-10
 
Some other snippets:

ACO President Pierre Fillon previously revealed plans for a “GTP-like” concept, which would see manufacturers build prototypes that bear resemblance to its high-end production cars.

At least five manufacturers: Toyota, Ford, McLaren, Aston Martin and Ferrari, have been in roundtable meetings for the new regs, which could also be adopted in the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship.

A targeted budget of one-quarter of the current LMP1 budgets, meanwhile, would put it in the range of €25 million ($30 million) per season.
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http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/fia-confirms-hypercar-design-concept-for-new-prototype-class/

DSC believes that the wider proposals currently also include, as previously written about on these pages, a restriction to a single hybrid system, likely driving through the front wheels, with a proposed 5Mj max.



Also likely is a proposal that manufacturer power units (engine plus hybrid system) must be available to non-factory entrants.

Cost reduction is set to be maintained in no small part via sweeping restrictions in the areas where aero development is permitted, in particular on the underside of the new cars.



The LMP1 moniker looks set to be abandoned though the new name for the premier class is not yet clear.
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http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/...egulation-proposals-for-lmp1-replacement.html

75% budget slash seems awfully ambitious to me...but I do like the idea of going back to a single hybrid system, and love the idea of power units being available for privateers to buy off the shelf. Not sure how the OEMs will feel about that though. Less aero development and "hypercar" production-based looks don't make much sense to me. Even if the cars are homologated at a point in the season and further development restricted, they're still going to pour tons of money into making the initial hypercar design as efficient as possible.
 
Sadly it seems like budgets will still be too high for IMSA to adopt them and bring the top class in the world, whatever it may be called, back to places like Daytona and Sebring. But, they are probably more than reasonable enough to at least not make it a one-manufacturer class anymore. I am cautiously optimistic about these regs - emphasis on the cautiously.

2020-1.jpeg


Details of 2020 ‘Hypercar’ Design Revealed
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/details-of-2020-hypercar-design-revealed/
 
The worst part of all of this? Success ballast. :rolleyes:

And on the subject of weight, the most arcane concept in sports is coming to Hypercar: "success ballast." The name is perfect: with success in each race, excluding Le Mans, weight will be added to the cars that earn points for finishing towards the front, to slow them down in subsequent races. The ACO/FIA will apply 1.1lbs of weight for every point earned, up to a maximum of 110.2lbs of ballast.

While Equivalency of Technology (EoT) and Balance of Performance (BoP) measures are in place today in ACO/FIA and other series to try to equalize cars with different engine types or aerodynamics, success ballast is the first systemic effort to penalize teams' quality performances.
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Much tighter regulations in several areas, slower cars, (intended) lower costs...not sure I see this panning out too well but we'll see in due time I guess. With less than two years until the 2020-21 season I don't see many manufacturers hopping on board right away, but Glickenhaus have already announced intentions to compete at least.

Here's What the New Le Mans "Hypercar" Rules Mean for Sports Car Racing in 2020
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motors...car-rules-mean-for-sports-car-racing-in-2020/
 
Yeah, let's make the privateers throw away the P1 and P2 cars they bought just this year.

How many times is this going to happen before the privateers move to IMSA where they can get a fair shake?
 
Doc Austin said:
Yeah, let's make the privateers throw away the P1 and P2 cars they bought just this year.

How many times is this going to happen before the privateers move to IMSA where they can get a fair shake?
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Non-hybrid LMP1s will apparently be grandfathered in, so they'll still be allowed to compete in 2020-21.

LMP2 will certainly have to be totally reworked if they want the necessary separation between classes. 3:22 qualifying and 3:27 race lap times at Le Mans for 'Hypercar' are not at all much quicker than LMP2 is right now. It's a bit of a shame because I think the current LMP2 regulations are great, but they'll have to be slowed down and will most likely have whole new cars built. How this affects IMSA will be interesting with DPi obviously being based off of LMP2 right now. I'd hate to see the top class in America slowed down as a trickle-down effect from what's going on in Europe.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/hypercar-production-rules-originated-with-manufacturer/
 
FLRacingFan said:
Non-hybrid LMP1s will apparently be grandfathered in, so they'll still be allowed to compete in 2020-21.
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Like they are allowed to compete now? They are taking an embarrassing drubbing and the FIA is giving them no help. They promise they will, and they make "adjustments," but on race day the Toyotas are still all on their own with no challengers.

The privateers never get a fair shake. It's only going to get worse because they will never allow the privateer lmp1 cars to get within a whiff of the front against the hypercars.

3:22 qualifying and 3:27 race lap times at Le Mans for 'Hypercar' are not at all much quicker than LMP2 is right now.
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So why spend all that money on a new, unproven concept when the current cars are almost as fast? The P2 cars are the best thing the FIA has come up with since Group C. They have a lot of cars and great racing. The privateer LMP1 could be almighty, if they only let them compete for the win on fair terms. That class would explode in entries and popularity.

Why destroy that for cars that are only a little faster and have a projected budget of $36 million?

It's a bit of a shame because I think the current LMP2 regulations are great, but they'll have to be slowed down and will most likely have whole new cars built.
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The P2 class is pretty quick too, quick enough to headline the premier series in the States. I also really like the new P1 cars, and they would go like hell if they gave them some more fuel. I'm betting they could more than smash the Toyotas if they were not having to save fuel the whole race. The Rebellion drives say they are saving fuel every lap. How can you compete like that? The answer is, they are not supposed to compete. They are supposed to fill the field and create the farce that there's a race going on.

How this affects IMSA will be interesting with DPi obviously being based off of LMP2 right now. I'd hate to see the top class in America slowed down as a trickle-down effect from what's going on in Europe.
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DPIs are going to have different rules next year. They are going to lift some of the restrictions so they will be faster than the P2s, which will have their own pro/am class separate from DPI. I think this might be a mistake because they are already talking about rules for races when the have less than three P2 cars. I would have much rather seen them leave everything alone so we would have a huge field of potential overall winners.

I believe the P1 and P2 classes could stand on their own, and would actually grow and prosper if they left them alone and allowed them to compete. As it is, they keep yanking the rug out from under them. Compare what's going on over there to what's going on over here, and it's pretty clear that allowing the privateers a fair chance works rather well, even if they are goi9ng to throw it away next year.

But, that's the history of sportscar racing. They get something good and then throw it away. As many times as I have seen this happen, it's easy to predict they will screw it up again. I hope I am wrong, but the pattern is too undeniable.
 
Like they are allowed to compete now? They are taking an embarrassing drubbing and the FIA is giving them no help. They promise they will, and they make "adjustments," but on race day the Toyotas are still all on their own with no challengers.

The privateers never get a fair shake. It's only going to get worse because they will never allow the privateer lmp1 cars to get within a whiff of the front against the hypercars.
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These regulations are supposed to be much more favorable for privateers. This year and next are lame-duck seasons with a weird mish-mash of hybrid and non-hybrid cars competing against each other that were never really supposed to. In contrast, 'Hypercar' will require that any homologated hybrid system used by an OEM factory team must be available for purchase by privateers (and cost-capped).

So why spend all that money on a new, unproven concept when the current cars are almost as fast? The P2 cars are the best thing the FIA has come up with since Group C. They have a lot of cars and great racing. The privateer LMP1 could be almighty, if they only let them compete for the win on fair terms. That class would explode in entries and popularity.

Why destroy that for cars that are only a little faster and have a projected budget of $36 million?
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Apparently the new 'Hypercar' regulations have very specific maximum power outputs for both the engine and the hybrid system - I'm guessing to reduce costs compared to current LMP1 and make it easier to balance the cars. Unfortunately the current P2 cars seem to be collateral damage here...although I guess they could just detune the Gibson engines to keep the separation from the top class and P2 that they like. I agree that the current P2 formula is pretty excellent and I wouldn't want to start all over with it - especially since that is the base of the DPi class, what with Dallara being the base of the Cadillac, ORECA the Acura, Riley/Multimatic the Mazda, and Ligier the Nissan.

DPIs are going to have different rules next year. They are going to lift some of the restrictions so they will be faster than the P2s, which will have their own pro/am class separate from DPI. I think this might be a mistake because they are already talking about rules for races when the have less than three P2 cars. I would have much rather seen them leave everything alone so we would have a huge field of potential overall winners.
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I think it is too. Regardless of what IMSA might say, the only real reason for it is that OEMs like Cadillac and Acura don't want to lose to privateer entries with spec components like the Gibson and don't like putting in development only to be pegged back to those spec components. Now P2 is going to have 2-3 full-time entries next year with maybe 3-4 more for Daytona. It's essentially a more expensive PC class - which they literally just got rid of! - and that doesn't seem bound for success to me.
 
The manufactures should be building engines and parts to sell to race teams. They shouldn't be running race teams to compete against their customers.
 
Bit of a surprise from BMW last week as they noted they're evaluating pulling the plug on the M8 program after this year. With BMW and Ford quite possibly both out from both WEC and IMSA GTLM after this year to take on prototype programs, it raises some questions over the long-term viability over the GTE-Pro/GTLM platform as a whole. The three remaining OEMs in GTE-Pro - Aston Martin, Porsche, and Ferrari - are also all involved in 'Hypercar' discussions to some extent.

BMW weighing up WEC exit after single season
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/bmw-weighing-up-quitting-ford/4331955/
 
Daytona Prototypes baby!
The news comes amid reports BMW could be interested in stepping up to IMSA’s top DPi division in future, possibly even as early as 2020.
Ford’s IMSA GTLM programme will run at least to the end of the 2019 season, with the American marque also thought to be interested in a DPi move.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Bit of a surprise from BMW last week as they noted they're evaluating pulling the plug on the M8 program after this year. With BMW and Ford quite possibly both out from both WEC and IMSA GTLM after this year to take on prototype programs, it raises some questions over the long-term viability over the GTE-Pro/GTLM platform as a whole. The three remaining OEMs in GTE-Pro - Aston Martin, Porsche, and Ferrari - are also all involved in 'Hypercar' discussions to some extent.

BMW weighing up WEC exit after single season
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/bmw-weighing-up-quitting-ford/4331955/
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Can't remember the last time BMW committed to a racing series for more than four years.
They never had a passion for motorsports and they probably will never have.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Can't remember the last time BMW committed to a racing series for more than four years.
They never had a passion for motorsports and they probably will never have.
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I think they've been with RLL in the ALMS and then IMSA for about a decade now, and obviously they've been in DTM for some time. But yeah, they generally seem to be pretty scatterbrained when it comes to putting together their motorsport programs. I wouldn't be surprised if they bailed on WEC, regardless of whether or not they start up a DPi program. Ford, on the other hand, have made it evident that they'll probably keep the GT program if they hold off on a prototype for a few years.
 
BMW has a history of quitting, even midseason, if things aren't going their way or they don't get the rules break they want. The withdrew from the ALMS Atlanta (and maybe even Mosport but can't remember) in 99 over safety reasons, but not until after Panoz out qualified them. They also didn't finish the 2000 season because Audi was handing them such a brutal beating.

Another time they jammed a V8 in one of their ALMS GT and promised to meet minimum production numbers. They won the championship, but the next year when they has not produced any cars, ALMS hit them with a weight penalty, and in a snit they withdrew.

So, if BMW isn't winning, you can count on it that they will not wait long to go home. We don't need them in DPI because when they get their ass handed to them they will disappear, and we don't need any disappearing DPIs. Sure, we want more cars, but we want cars that will stay. What we want from BMW is to stay, but stay home.

When BMW quits, they will cite either unfavorable NOP, or the ever popular "too expensive." Count on it.
 
Doc Austin said:
Most excellent news.........
Ginetta testing ahead of potential 2019/20 WEC return
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That Mecachrome engine was so bad, and the Manor program such a sham. The AER seems like it has potential, and the fact that it was competitive with Rebellion and SMP in testing is promising. Only problem is...what customer would want to invest in a privateer LMP1 program right now? We're supposed to debut new rules within a few years, and until then, you should be expected to compete for best-in-class behind the Toyotas - what gives?
 
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