The knee jerk reactions have already begun

AndyMarquisLive said:
Dark skies and lightning aren't indicators enough to get out of Dodge? And yes, tracks communicate through smartphone apps and Twitter. That's how the Baltimore Grand Prix sent out alerts. We don't know if fans were told to leave over the PA system. And if elements of the media have an agenda to blame NASCAR and the track for this, they're not going to tell us one way or the other.
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You're all over the map on this Andy. Apparently yesterday, dark clouds and lightning were indicators that they should have raced more. Now they shouldn't have.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'm not siding with anyone. From what I've read, the fan that was killed was standing out in the parking lot while the lightning was happening all around. Common sense should have told him you get inside. Why wasn't he and the others in their vehicles?
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Hooray TRL! Hooray Beer! Cheers!
 
VaDirt said:
You're all over the map on this Andy. Apparently yesterday, dark clouds and lightning were indicators that they should have raced more. Now they shouldn't have.
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Yesterday they didn't race enough,Today they raced to much and now it's the fans fault?Pretty much covered everything.
 
VaDirt said:
You're all over the map on this Andy. Apparently yesterday, dark clouds and lightning were indicators that they should have raced more. Now they shouldn't have.
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I'm responding to what others are saying.

But since you and Mike want it, here it goes:

If NASCAR throws the caution and says they're going to resume the race, they shouldn't extend the caution until the rain arrives (knowing that they're going to call it) and tell the fans they're going to go back to racing. If they're concerned enough to stop the race, they should have thrown the red flag and called it right then and there.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I'm responding to what others are saying.

But since you and Mike want it, here it goes:

If NASCAR throws the caution and says they're going to resume the race, they shouldn't extend the caution until the rain arrives (knowing that they're going to call it) and tell the fans they're going to go back to racing. If they're concerned enough to stop the race, they should have thrown the red flag and called it right then and there.
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Whatever. I sure am glad you are the only one that's ever right in your own mind.:rolleyes: Oh, and you are always, always know what to do in any contingency. You love to go with the "would have, should have, could haves"
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I'm responding to what others are saying.

But since you and Mike want it, here it goes:

If NASCAR throws the caution and says they're going to resume the race, they shouldn't extend the caution until the rain arrives (knowing that they're going to call it) and tell the fans they're going to go back to racing. If they're concerned enough to stop the race, they should have thrown the red flag and called it right then and there.
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Is that your FINAL ANSWER?????????:D
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'm not siding with anyone. From what I've read, the fan that was killed was standing out in the parking lot while the lightning was happening all around. Common sense should have told him you get inside. Why wasn't he and the others in their vehicles?
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Since he had the hatch open, I assume he was packing up before he got in the car.
 
VaDirt said:
Whatever. I sure am glad you are the only one that's ever right in your own mind.:rolleyes: Oh, and you are always, always know what to do in any contingency. You love to go with the "would have, should have, could haves"
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Whatever. :rolleyes: I'm not interested in getting in fights on the internet. If you and Mike want to sit here and criticize me endlessly, the floor is yours.

I never said I am always right. I offered my opinion. Everyone else gives theirs.
 
The only one that I agree with on here about this is TRL. If I,m standing in the open with lightning striking even 10 miles away and I get hit its my own fault not Walmarts, not IGAs, not the brickyard, Pocono raceway, nascar or anybody else. Just me and me alone.
 
Matthew2470 said:
I am beginning to wonder if NASCAR pulled his press credentials. He hasn't been at the track much since he published and ridiculed the rule book.
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Jeff Gluck reminds me of the FOX and Friends morning "news" program. They used to report the news, but once Obama was elected, they transformed in to a bunch of nasty, snarky people with nothing constructive to say. Now, all they do is snark off about Obama and offer their opinions on everything. That's EXACTLY how I see Gluck right now. He's transformed from a reporter to someone who only offers snarky comments and nothing constructive.

I'm beginning to think the same thing to be honest... that NASCAR pulled his hard card and he's having to apply for press credentials.

What that basically means is that he'd have to work within the same scope as most reporters: Apply for credentials through the track for each individual race, no more hot passes, no more unlimited access to drivers, having to arrange interviews through PR people.

I'm gonna start calling him Steve Doocy.
 
Johali said:
The only one that I agree with on here about this is TRL. If I,m standing in the open with lightning striking even 10 miles away and I get hit its my own fault not Walmarts, not IGAs, not the brickyard, Pocono raceway, nascar or anybody else. Just me and me alone.
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Only Problem with that is if you get hit and killed you won't be able to say " hey my fault " and the blame game begins.
 
racer8 said:
Only Problem with that is if you get hit and killed you won't be able to say " hey my fault " and the blame game begins.
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Bull sheet, my wife would be on here and everywhere else screaming that I was capable of making my own decisions, so blame nothing or no one but me, period.
 
Johali said:
The only one that I agree with on here about this is TRL. If I,m standing in the open with lightning striking even 10 miles away and I get hit its my own fault not Walmarts, not IGAs, not the brickyard, Pocono raceway, nascar or anybody else. Just me and me alone.
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This^
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/moto...protect-fans-after-lightning-death/56832360/1

With the drop of a red flag, NASCAR can stop an event whenever racing conditions are deemed dangerous.
Should the sanctioning body do the same when the grandstands surrounding the track are in peril?

"The tricky part is making the decision to clear the facility," said Ed Klima, director of emergency services for Dover Motorsports, which owns Dover International Speedway. "The facility is ultimately responsible for fans' safety. With that said, it's obviously very difficult to get people to leave if there are still cars going around the track."

Pocono cleared its grandstands after a torrential downpour delayed Sunday's race by more than two hours. But after a severe weather warning was issued at 4:12 p.m., the track didn't evacuate fans before NASCAR stopped the race and made Jeff Gordon the winner at 4:54 p.m. The fatal lightning strike occurred seven minutes later in a parking lot behind the grandstands.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/moto...h-details-emerge-at-pocono-raceway/56822014/1

While Pocono Raceway's Twitter account issued a warning of severe weather, some fans didn't see it.
Ria Frazier, 45, attending the race with her husband and daughter, said she was looking sporadically at her Twitter feed but notes another way fans could have been warned.

"They've got those huge SprintVision (video boards) that most of the fans can see," the Rockaway, N.J., resident said. "I would think if they put it on the video boards, pretty much the whole grandstands see the video board. At least that way the fans can make a determination for themselves after seeing that, do we want to stay."
 
I don't see how ending the race a few minutes earlier could have done much. Not everyone leaves as soon as the race ends. Some stay awhile to avoid traffic. Also, it takes time for people to walk to their car. They don't arrive at their car the instant they leave their seat. People still would've been in the parking lot at the time of the strike.

Now that I think about it, in one way, I think draging out the caution might have been a good thing. If they had ended the race before the storm, some people would be in the parking lot on the way to their cars when the storm came in. By ending the race after the rain started, I'm sure some people who would've been walking to their cars stayed under cover instead.
 
Had NASCAR called the race ten laps earlier, people would have said they did it so (insert driver name here) could win the race.

I work outside every day. I spend most of my life outside and I know when to seak shelter. There are times when I have to work outside in terrible weather, I don't like it it but it comes with my job.

A few years ago at MIS, I left while the race was still in progress because storms were moving in. As I was driving out of the lot the race was stopped.
 
Smoke14 said:
Had NASCAR called the race ten laps earlier, people would have said they did it so (insert driver name here) could win the race.

I work outside every day. I spend most of my life outside and I know when to seak shelter. There are times when I have to work outside in terible weather, I don't like it it but it comes with my job.

A few years ago at MIS, I left while the race was still in progress because storms were moving in. As I was driving out of the lot the race was stopped.
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In my opinion, a race should be called the second a severe weather alert goes up. But it's easy to look at this in hindsight. I mean, we've had several severe storm alerts the past few weeks and not gotten a drip of rain.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
In my opinion, a race should be called the second a severe weather alert goes up. But it's easy to look at this in hindsight. I mean, we've had several severe storm alerts the past few weeks and not gotten a drip of rain.
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I don't know how that'd go over either. I could imagine the outcry if NASCAR called a race and a storm never makes it. Idk, I just think this is one of those freak deals that happened. I don't really see where NASCAR should take any heat for this or make changes. Unfortunate someone lost their life on a day that was supposed to be fun and enjoyable, but NASCAR can't control the weather and I don't see how they could've prevented it.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
In my opinion, a race should be called the second a severe weather alert goes up. But it's easy to look at this in hindsight. I mean, we've had several severe storm alerts the past few weeks and not gotten a drip of rain.
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I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree. A severe thunderstorm watch and a tornado warning are completely different animals.

I would be willing to bet more people are killed in motor vehicle accidents going to or from a race than lightening strikes.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
In my opinion, a race should be called the second a severe weather alert goes up. But it's easy to look at this in hindsight. I mean, we've had several severe storm alerts the past few weeks and not gotten a drip of rain.
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Well there we go with a knee jerk reaction. lol, just kidding. However i think it is safe to say we all have had a little bit of a knee jerk reaction. Especially the media. Honestly the way Nascar has been doing things has always worked out. This time however we have an unfortunate accident. Even those involved probably never really thought they'd actually be struck by lightning.
 
Smoke14 said:
I appreciate your opinion, but I disagree. A severe thunderstorm watch and a tornado warning are completely different animals.

I would be willing to bet more people are killed in motor vehicle accidents going to or from a race than lightening strikes.
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I'm talking about warnings.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Well there we go with a knee jerk reaction. lol, just kidding. However i think it is safe to say we all have had a little bit of a knee jerk reaction. Especially the media. Honestly the way Nascar has been doing things has always worked out. This time however we have an unfortunate accident. Even those involved probably never really thought they'd actually be struck by lightning.
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Exactly. I have tried my damn hardest from posting this, but this is one of the most predictable emergencies. NASCAR and ARCA both have canceled races on the mere threat of severe storms before. Every day, tracks cancel on the threat not wanting to put people in danger. In 2010, NASCAR postponed a Nationwide race on the mere threat of severe storms. The race was Saturday. By Friday afternoon, there was already talk that NASCAR would cancel. And they did. It's one of the most predictable emergencies that actually occured and, in this case, it happened. I don't believe in placing blame, but I can't believe, for the life of me, that NASCAR didn't have a continency plan in place.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'm not siding with anyone. From what I've read, the fan that was killed was standing out in the parking lot while the lightning was happening all around. Common sense should have told him you get inside. Why wasn't he and the others in their vehicles?
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Tornado at TMS......year I forget??
 
Boy was this thread titled correctly. ;) Let's red flag the race early and send all 86,000 fans out into the parking lot. Half of which, at least, will be setting up their tailgating gear and continuing their partying out in the parking lots surrounding the track. A rain storm moves in. Half of the people left pack up their gear and get into their cars. The other half continue to party in the rain. People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. Lightning is random. It's a tragedy when something like this happens but it's hardly preventable.

Years ago at one of the Dover races that I was at some fans were erecting their flagpole in the campground when it accidentally touched the electric lines. They were killed. A couple years later at Talladega the same exact thing happened and two more fans were killed. We've had fans die from carbon monoxide poisoning by using open flames or stoves in their tents. You'd think that a person would be smart enough to not put flag poles up under electric lines. You'd think that people would be smart enough not to take carbon monoxide producing items into their tent. You'd think that someone would be smart enough not to stand outside when lighting is in the area, yet it still happens. :(
 
I wonder if we'll see a mass exodus from the track the next time a storm warning goes out or even if some ominus looking clouds roll in?
 
If I were sitting in those stands, I would have EXPECTED nascar to take the DANGEROUS storm warning seriously. Don't just tweet it, announce it on the PA, display it on the screen and STOP the race. Tell fans to leave the stands and tell me where to seek shelter from lightening. Does the track have proper lightening rods around the track? Am I safe under the stands? Too many people are saying they didn't know what was coming, because nascar was more concerned with finishing the race.
 
More people are killed by lightning on golf courses every year than anywhere else but no one and I mean no one ever blames the course officials or anyone else. The people struck at the courses were responsible for their own safety. No one screams that there should of been signs, fireworks and sirens warning of the weather. I have been to several hundred races in my lifetime and you can bet your ass that the fans present knew and could see the weather far in advance of it arriving. If they chose to stay or stand in the open it was their choice. Yes I feel for their loved ones but I refuse to play the blame game on this one. Any changes Nascar or the tracks could make would be torn apart on here by the same members that tear apart the reactions of officials during any other unavoidable event.
 
Johali said:
More people are killed by lightning on golf courses every year than anywhere else but no one and I mean no one ever blames the course officials or anyone else. The people struck at the courses were responsible for their own safety. No one screams that there should of been signs, fireworks and sirens warning of the weather. I have been to several hundred races in my lifetime and you can bet your ass that the fans present knew and could see the weather far in advance of it arriving. If they chose to stay or stand in the open it was their choice. Yes I feel for their loved ones but I refuse to play the blame game on this one. Any changes Nascar or the tracks could make would be torn apart on here by the same members that tear apart the reactions of officials during any other unavoidable event.
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"DAMN STRAIGHT"
 
FenderBumper said:
If I were sitting in those stands, I would have EXPECTED nascar to take the DANGEROUS storm warning seriously. Don't just tweet it, announce it on the PA, display it on the screen and STOP the race. Tell fans to leave the stands and tell me where to seek shelter from lightening. Does the track have proper lightening rods around the track? Am I safe under the stands? Too many people are saying they didn't know what was coming, because nascar was more concerned with finishing the race.
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I agree to a point. If there's a severe weather WARNING, the track has an obligation to inform fans.
 
Speaking of warning, a track I was at recently has a class called "thunder & lightning" which are basically a cross between a street stock and a limited late model, and would fit the "sportsman" class most everywhere else.

Anyway, we all knew a storm was on it's way, and while the announcer was saying "up next, thunder & lightning", he wasn't talking about the storm. I really wish they'd change that division's name.

OK, carry on with all of your expert opinions on how to avoid getting struck by lightning....
 
Jeff Gordon said he's working on getting contact info for those injured by Pocono lightning strikes. "High on our list right now," he said.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Jeff Gordon said he's working on getting contact info for those injured by Pocono lightning strikes. "High on our list right now," he said.
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Good to hear. Anything they can do to help out is good for the injured parties and good for NASCAR.
 
If there are any storms in the area at MIS in a couple of weeks I will be paying extra close attention to the radar via my Weatherbug app. As a matter of fact, I think I'll send Tweets and emails to the good people at MIS to inquire about their storm preparedness policies.
 
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