The Masters

Charlie Spencer said:
Dale, Jeff, and Smoke never has the physical problems, not to mention the personal ones (some self-inflicted). The only thing I can think of that might have compared is if Tim Richmond had come back and taken a title.
Click to expand...

Ernie Irvan garnered national attention when he won at New Hampshire in 1996 and then even more publicity in 1997 when he won at Michigan.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Ernie Irvan garnered national attention when he won at New Hampshire in 1996 and then even more publicity in 1997 when he won at Michigan.
Click to expand...
Good comparison, and in some ways Ernie had a more challenging recovery. But Swervin' was never at Woods' level of national recognition, and he wasn't irrelevant for almost a decade before returning.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Good comparison, and in some ways Ernie had a more challenging recovery. But Swervin' was never at Woods' level of national recognition, and he wasn't irrelevant for almost a decade before returning.
Click to expand...

I agree. But his comeback did earn Irvan a few national awards for courage and perseverance which at the time was very noteworthy.
 
Let's also note that Augusta National isn't as dependent on TV money as NASCAR and the tracks. It's a private club with dues beyond what most of us here earn annually. If it somehow lost TV coverage, it would survive as a golf club. But without TV money, many tracks would close and NASCAR as we know it would be replaced with something smaller and very different.

It's much easier to tell TV what to do when it wants you more than you need it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Let's also note that Augusta National isn't as dependent on TV money as NASCAR and the tracks. It's a private club with dues beyond what most of us here earn annually. If it somehow lost TV coverage, it would survive as a golf club. But without TV money, many tracks would close and NASCAR as we know it would be replaced with something smaller and very different.

It's much easier to tell TV what to do when it wants you more than you need it.
Click to expand...

Actually, Augusta's budget is heavily dependent upon TV revenue from the Masters. As a result the dues at Augusta are notoriously modest relative to other clubs of similar clout. Money does not get you into Augusta per se. It's your character and what you bring to the table/club. With that said, it's membership base for the most part is obviously extremely wealthy. The club would be perfectly fine without CBS's money if it came to that. It would simply need to rework their dues structure and accounting techniques.

When the club wants to make a major reservation they'll take some money out of their capital fund/club endowment and then divide up the remaining cost and bill the members the rest accordingly.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Actually, Augusta's budget is heavily dependent upon TV revenue from the Masters. As a result the dues at Augusta are notoriously modest relative to other clubs of similar clout. Money does not get you into Augusta per se. It's your character and what you bring to the table/club.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the kinda shyt that I hate. Clubs. Tribalism for cake-eaters, many (if not all) who are crappy human beings, just like the rest of us. :D

Chasing a little white ball while networking can pay for mega-yachts and ex-wives and rehab and lawyers, etc -- but I don't believe it's about good character. IMHO
 
Ventisca said:
Yeah, that's the kinda shyt that I hate. Clubs. Tribalism for cake-eaters, many (if not all) who are crappy human beings, just like the rest of us. :D

Chasing a little white ball while networking can pay for mega-yachts and ex-wives and rehab and lawyers, etc -- but I don't believe it's about good character. IMHO
Click to expand...

Tiger earned his clap.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I took the wrong route, but I seemed to have reached the correct conclusion. To address Revman's original post, it's an apple juice-to-cognac comparison.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! Despite using the revenue very much to their advantage Augusta National does not need CBS nor do they care what they have to say. NASCAR on the other hand is very much at the networks beck and call. Back in the day when the tracks negotiated their own deals it was the networks who came calling.

Any golf fan on here remembers Fox's first US Open broadcast at Chambers Bay in 2015 knows what a roller coaster it was. It was awkward to the say the least. Curt Menefee was the studio host, they had some other crossover guys in weird spots, their camera guys struggled to track the ball in the air/find the ball when it landed. Plus, they tried some of their quirky Fox graphics/tendencies. Needless to say, golf fans and more importantly the USGA was not too thrilled with the production. To no one's surprise there were drastic changes made for Oakmont in 2016. Fox's golf telecasts are nothing like their NFL, NASCAR and college football and bball broadcasts.
 
Ventisca said:
Chasing a little white ball while networking can pay for mega-yachts and ex-wives and rehab and lawyers, etc -- but I don't believe it's about good character. IMHO
Click to expand...
Is golf any less about character than making millions at other sports? It's not like reaching the top levels of NASCAR is within financial reach of most aspirants either.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Any golf fan on here remembers Fox's first US Open broadcast at Chambers Bay in 2015 knows what a roller coaster it was.
Click to expand...
Gods, that had Darling Bride and I cringing. The cameras were poorly positioned, as if the network hadn't looked at tape of other coverage. The color was washed out through the entire tournament. For those of us who think NASCAR coverage misses the action, Fox couldn't find the ball half the time. It was obvious their cameramen were inexperienced at golf. I've often thought tracking a golf ball must be one of the hardest jobs in sports camera work. I still think Fox doesn't do a very good job; they don't do enough coverage to get better, with plenty of time between events to forget whatever they may have learned.
 
Ventisca said:
Yeah, that's the kinda shyt that I hate. Clubs. Tribalism for cake-eaters, many (if not all) who are crappy human beings, just like the rest of us. :D
Click to expand...
Oh, and most clubs hit their members up to pay for the facilities, instead of getting the public to subsidize them. That's the kind of shee-eyt I hate.
 
Ventisca said:
Yeah, that's the kinda shyt that I hate. Clubs. Tribalism for cake-eaters, many (if not all) who are crappy human beings, just like the rest of us. :D

Chasing a little white ball while networking can pay for mega-yachts and ex-wives and rehab and lawyers, etc -- but I don't believe it's about good character. IMHO
Click to expand...

Many of those things you listed will keep you out of certain clubs. Trust me, there is a place for character. No one is perfect but if the skeletons are simply "normal" ones then you'll be welcomed while others are not. Some of these places don't want people who bring drama or ego despite their wealth. Those people do exist.

My time working in the golf industry has given me the opportunity to meet a lot of really cool people. One of which is Richard Childress who had a friend that was a member at the club I worked for in Bozeman, MT. I had a chance to have a 3-5 minute casual conversation with Childress on several occasions. These guys are just like you and I. He just wanted to play golf and do some fly fishing while being left alone.
 
Ventisca said:
Chasing a little white ball while networking can pay for mega-yachts and ex-wives and rehab and lawyers, etc -- but I don't believe it's about good character. IMHO
Click to expand...
And another thing. If there's one thing golf is about, it's character. In no other sport are the participants expected to penalize themselves for their own fouls. When's the last time you saw a wide receiver tell the ref he pushed off, or a forward call travelling on himself? In every other sport, the expectation is to get away with as much as you can, including NASCAR. Golf may not have fewer cheaters than other sport but at least there's an expectation that's completely lacking in other sports.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
The other major thing that happened in 1994 was Michael Jordan was playing baseball for Birmingham Barons while MLB was on strike. That created a huge twist in sports marketing.

Jeff Gordon came along at absolutely the right time. His win at the Brickyard in its inaugural year couldn't have been bigger imo. It was similar to Tiger winning the Masters in such dominant fashion. Had his first major victory been a 1 stroke win at the PGA the rocket ship might not have taken off at such a high speed. But to do it at Augusta (with its racial history) by crushing everyone?!? That was historical. Likewise, had Gordon's two wins in 1994 been the 600 and Michigan things likely would have played out a bit different. But he won at a place where many thought stock cars and "rednecks" had no place. But then a 23 year old (2 days shy of 24) California kid with an open wheel background won in the perfect 90's looking car that changed a lot of people's mind. Ironically, because another California driver (Irvan) blew a tire with only a few laps left.

What helped Tiger too was the 1996 Masters. Before the golf world had a Tiger there was a Shark that ruled the world. Norman's collapse in the 1996 Masters basically erased him for worldwide contention. Norman was hugely popular figure in the late 80's early 90's. He had a nickname and is own logo/clothing line via Reebok. Faldo, who won in '96 was about as boring as it gets despite being one of the Top 20 golfers ever. Golf desperately needed Tiger to assume the reigns when he did.
Click to expand...

All good points on how it takes a perfect storm and a dominant mega star for a sport to boom. I remember the Shark, very popular. John Daly and Phil also provided some assistance along the way.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Absolutely! Despite using the revenue very much to their advantage Augusta National does not need CBS nor do they care what they have to say. NASCAR on the other hand is very much at the networks beck and call. Back in the day when the tracks negotiated their own deals it was the networks who came calling.

Any golf fan on here remembers Fox's first US Open broadcast at Chambers Bay in 2015 knows what a roller coaster it was. It was awkward to the say the least. Curt Menefee was the studio host, they had some other crossover guys in weird spots, their camera guys struggled to track the ball in the air/find the ball when it landed. Plus, they tried some of their quirky Fox graphics/tendencies. Needless to say, golf fans and more importantly the USGA was not too thrilled with the production. To no one's surprise there were drastic changes made for Oakmont in 2016. Fox's golf telecasts are nothing like their NFL, NASCAR and college football and bball broadcasts.
Click to expand...

I remember how different that broadcast was, and how burnt out the course looked. The pro's ripped them a new one on how bumpy the greens were.
 
Turtle84 said:
All good points on how it takes a perfect storm and a dominant mega star for a sport to boom. I remember the Shark, very popular. John Daly and Phil also provided some assistance along the way.
Click to expand...

John Daly was easily golf's Dale Earnhardt. He brought the Happy Gilmore fan that came to the course to drink beers and yell wildly at long drives. His impact on the game in the early 1990's can't be understated.

The death of Payne Stewart on the heels of his '99 US Open win had profound effect on the game. He was one of the more recognizable sports figures due to his dress. I think it took until Mickelson's 2004 Masters win to have the next quirky/uniquely American golfer that people rallied around. David Duval was never it....lol.

Bottom line, NASCAR needs drivers that people can have an emotional connection with again. Watching the Masters yesterday took me to a similar place that the 2001 Pepsi 400, 1998 Daytona 500 and 1997 Michigan 400 did.
 
Last edited:
Greg said:
The greens has gotta be organic for me, just like the racing.
Click to expand...

The greens from Columbia iz really worth the trip so I hear. The organicisity cannot be overstated. Hand cut by Juan Valdez on his weekends off. The greens come from his other garden out back behind the vineyard. So I hear.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
John Daly was easily golf's Dale Earnhardt. He brought the Happy Gilmore fan that came to the course to drink beers and yell wildly at long drives. His impact on the game in the early 1990's can't be understated.

The death of Payne Stewart on the heels of his '99 US Open win had profound effect on the game. He was one of the more recognizable sports figures due to his dress. I think it took until Mickelson's 2004 Masters win to have the next quirky/uniquely American golfer that people rallied around. David Duval was never it....lol.

Bottom line, NASCAR needs drivers that people can have an emotional connection with again. Watching the Masters yesterday took me to a similar place that the 2001 Pepsi 400, 1998 Daytona 500 and 1997 Michigan 400 did.
Click to expand...

Kyle Larson may be the David Duval of NASCAR.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
Any golf fan on here remembers Fox's first US Open broadcast at Chambers Bay in 2015 knows what a roller coaster it was. It was awkward to the say the least. Curt Menefee was the studio host, they had some other crossover guys in weird spots, their camera guys struggled to track the ball in the air/find the ball when it landed. Plus, they tried some of their quirky Fox graphics/tendencies. Needless to say, golf fans and more importantly the USGA was not too thrilled with the production. To no one's surprise there were drastic changes made for Oakmont in 2016. Fox's golf telecasts are nothing like their NFL, NASCAR and college football and bball broadcasts.
Click to expand...
Needs to noted as well how bad of a U.S. Open venue Chambers Bay was. Probably one of the worst major venues of all time IMO
 
Get That 88 Up There !! said:
Needs to noted as well how bad of a U.S. Open venue Chambers Bay was. Probably one of the worst major venues of all time IMO
Click to expand...

The 2015 US Open in general was a mess. Fox's first golf broadcast was an unmitigated disaster and the course was turned into bacon for some unknown reason (USGA never took responsibility). The only thing that saved it was Speith winning his second straight major. As a result, his stardom surpassed even that of LeBron James for a few months.

As bad as it was it still didn't ruin the event for future years like the tire fiasco at the Brickyard did. Although, had Junior won instead of Menard things might have turned out very different....
 
nascarwoman said:
No. The posts were becoming more golf related.
All you do is click the title in the NASCAR forum and it brings you right here. It's not like you have to hunt for it.
Click to expand...

I saw pretty good dialogue with a good balance, but I can handle it. I appreciate the Visible Mod program so thanks for that. All good.
 
Good call. We were walking a line with the comparisons, and then it became more golf-centric and the NASCAR relevance petered out.
 
Apologies for being a drifter
landscape-1469548693-nascar.gif
 
Revman said:
I will either get a ton of agreement here, or I will get blistered. I really don't care either way, but I just have to post this in regard to today's Masters....

1) The start time was moved up hours to avoid weather.....Again, many scoffed at this in regard to NASCAR. It can be done, obviously, 2) I have yet to see a thread on any board anywhere (I looked) entitled: Was this a Good Golf Tournament?, 3) Nobody commented on the size of the gallery, 4) No complaints about the coverage.....Know what people are talking about? The event. NASCAR Nation is its own worst enemy.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the TV coverage of The Masters is top-notch. When the US Open is shown on Fox, you see a tsunami of complaints.

I agree with the rest of this though.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
The 2015 US Open in general was a mess. Fox's first golf broadcast was an unmitigated disaster and the course was turned into bacon for some unknown reason (USGA never took responsibility). The only thing that saved it was Speith winning his second straight major. As a result, his stardom surpassed even that of LeBron James for a few months.

As bad as it was it still didn't ruin the event for future years like the tire fiasco at the Brickyard did. Although, had Junior won instead of Menard things might have turned out very different....
Click to expand...

Oh my god Dustin Johnson’s three putt for the loss! I’ll never forget that.

Chambers Bay was just too quirky for a US Open. It’d be like hosting an INDYCAR race at Martinsville, sounds good until you see the product
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
To be fair, the TV coverage of The Masters is top-notch. When the US Open is shown on Fox, you see a tsunami of complaints.

I agree with the rest of this though.
Click to expand...

I have to tell you....I listened to the end of the tournament on satellite radio, and Mike Tirico is unbelievable. Think about it.....golf on the radio and he was unbelievable.....
 
Revman said:
I have to tell you....I listened to the end of the tournament on satellite radio, and Mike Tirico is unbelievable. Think about it.....golf on the radio and he was unbelievable.....
Click to expand...
That's one thing I've never done is listen to golf on the radio. To a far opposite extreme, I once listened to figure skating on the radio. I'm quite embarrassed to mention that but it's true. It was during a match-up of the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding post knee bashing incident. They actually broadcasted the competition and the place I worked had it on the radio for all to listen to. Understandably, I can't say that it was all that riveting. Some sports simply don't translate will to radio.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
That's one thing I've never done is listen to golf on the radio. To a far opposite extreme, I once listened to figure skating on the radio. I'm quite embarrassed to mention that but it's true. It was during a match-up of the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding post knee bashing incident. They actually broadcasted the competition and the place I worked had it on the radio for all to listen to. Understandably, I can't say that it was all that riveting. Some sports simply don't translate will to radio.
Click to expand...

I know, but I was heading out for a run and I had some stuff to do last Sunday so it couldn't wait. Decided to call it up on my app, and I thought, "This will suck," but Tirico was incredible. I believe Billy Casper was on the analysis, and the picture they painted was just beyond words. Totally enjoyable. I am not a golfer, but the club selection, the change in Tiger's strategy as his competition faded, etc. They stayed away from the drama, and concentrated on the talent of arguably the greatest golfer of all time. What a novel concept.....

Kerrigan v. Harding.....I listened too!!!!!! Damn I was pulling for Harding......If you look at who I pull for in NASCAR, it kind of makes sense, doesn't it? ;)
 
Poker, bowling, chess matches, painting, and hair cutting events gets the best radio coverage, imo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom