The Morning drive

Not listening as I unsubscribed a while back but nixing qualifying wouldn't matter to me too much these days. I lost interest in it not long after it's transformation to stage qualifying. Heck, I might even go as far as starting them in reverse order of the way they finished. Obviously I'm not a Mensa member but that's okay, we don't all like the same things.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Not listening as I unsubscribed a while back but nixing qualifying wouldn't matter to me too much these days. I lost interest in it not long after it's transformation to stage qualifying. Heck, I might even go as far as starting them in reverse order of the way they finished. Obviously I'm not a Mensa member but that's okay, we don't all like the same things.
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Why would you start the same cars at the front every week, on purpose?I'd be more then ready to go with starting them in reverse order.
 
Have the drivers play 2 rounds of bingo. 1 for qualifying and 1 for pit stall selection.
 
Spotter22 said:
That would spin the crew chiefs out. Should I go race or Q run? :eek:
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Run first practice for starting position, subsequent practices for race trim. No-brainer.

I enjoy watching Q, but my own dipstick opinion is that it matters far less than it used to. It seems to me that at many tracks, it's more to Q well to get a good pit stall than to get a good starting position. Starting position is irrelevant at the plate races, and it's of only minimal importance at several other large, wide tracks. For the last few seasons, fast cars stuck in the rear don't seem to have the problems getting through the field that they did in years past.

I wouldn't have any problem if NASCAR scrapped Q entirely, lined 'em up based on a random draw or practice speeds, and picked pit stalls based on current owner points. I do think there are better options than basing anything on the previous week's performances.
 
This would be universally bad as the fans would be pissed they'd have on-track activity taken away from them, the tracks would be pissed because there would be fewer paying fans, and the networks would be pissed because they'd be losing inventory for no good reason.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Run first practice for starting position, subsequent practices for race trim. No-brainer.

I enjoy watching Q, but my own dipstick opinion is that it matters far less than it used to. It seems to me that at many tracks, it's more to Q well to get a good pit stall than to get a good starting position. Starting position is irrelevant at the plate races, and it's of only minimal importance at several other large, wide tracks. For the last few seasons, fast cars stuck in the rear don't seem to have the problems getting through the field that they did in years past.

I wouldn't have any problem if NASCAR scrapped Q entirely, lined 'em up based on a random draw or practice speeds, and picked pit stalls based on current owner points. I do think there are better options than basing anything on the previous week's performances.
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Edited, Never mind, just saw they have 2 practices instead on 1 Saturday.
Run first practice for starting position, subsequent practices for race trim

This is an impound race. You cant do that
 
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Here is Pistone's article outlining his newfound belief that qualifying for starting position is an outdated practice.

https://www.mrn.com/2018/03/21/opinion-quality-qualifying/

Opinion: Quality Qualifying

By PETE PISTONE | @PPISTONE MARCH 21, 2018 AT 9:40 AM

As I type away early on a Wednesday morning it’s hard to shake a feeling of impending doom that may lie ahead. The past two weeks have delivered significant penalty news from the previous race weekend on Wednesday night at about 6 p.m. ET.

Two weeks ago it was Kevin Harvick’s controversial rear window infraction after his Phoenix win. Seven days ago came the news of Chase Elliott’s rear suspension transgression with both penalties resulting in the aftermath of an R&D Center teardown. The by-product was taking the sport’s conversational landscape off the track and into debates about rules, grey areas and cheating.

It’s a scenario nobody likes including those running the sport and who ultimately have to enforce the rules. Hopefully the west coast swing won’t result in a mid-week penalty trifecta.

There has already been enough discussion about rules, penalties and punishment this week after the Auto Club Speedway qualifying mess. Thirteen Cup cars didn’t make it through inspection to even take a lap of qualifying, a move some deemed as a ploy to perhaps reap the benefits of having fresh tires to start the race on the won out ACS surface. New rubber was a lucrative advantage even at the cost of a lesser starting spot.

NASCAR wisely stepped in and gave everyone in the field the same fresh Goodyear tires as was the correct move to protect the credibility and integrity of the qualifying session.

But is qualifying in its current form even worth protecting?

It’s been only a few years since NASCAR overhauled its qualifying procedure ditching the decades old tradition of one car on track against the clock to a group format broken into sessions.

The idea was initially embraced by many fans as a move to a format more in line of heat races to determine the lineup as is used on the short track level. That euphoria quickly faded as teams – as is the case with most any rule or format change – looked for an advantage and drivers sat on pit road until the final moments of a round before heading out to make a bonsai run for speed.

The sanctioning body massaged the policy to eradicate that practice for the most part and group qualifying remains in place today.

However with the advent of the charter system, which guarantees 36 spots to those teams and only a handful of organizations showing up for one of the additional four “open” spots in a Cup field, qualifying is in reality just placement. Everyone makes the race and the drama of “who’s going home” just doesn’t exist today for a variety of reasons.

And as was exemplified in Fontana, depending on the circumstances sometimes even starting near the front of the field isn’t considered a worthy endeavor.

Would a better use of time, effort, energy and resources be to eliminate qualifying completely? Why make teams go through the effort and expense to put cars in qualifying trim only to have to then switch over to a different race set-up? Use last week’s finishing order as the blueprint for the next race’s starting line-up, perhaps adding even more incentive to finish better and improve the following week’s opening green flag spot.

As more tracks embrace the “enhanced weekend” schedule with two days of Cup on track activity built around a three-day schedule of events that include support races and fan initiatives, giving teams as much of an opportunity to prepare for the race seems like a more logical use of time.

For a variety of reasons, I’m a huge proponent of the enhanced weekend concept that was well received in its trial outings last year. The main goal is to provide a wide variety of activities for fans in and around the race weekend punctuated by the best on track product possible. There’s also a saving of expense and valuable time as a benefit of the format.

Let’s face it; the days of “Pole Day” crowds and buzz are a distant memory even for some of racing’s most prestigious events. Fine-tuning track activity around fans’ interests should be the priority.

Now if you’ll excuse me I will go back to nervously watching my e-mail in box.
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I don't know what to say to this. Much of it is too stupid on its face to take seriously. It will provide more incentive to finish well? If starting position doesn't matter as it used to, how's that? I thought there were plenty of incentives in place to finish well.

If it is solely about cost savings, that at least makes some sense. I'm not sure how all of the other American auto racing series that operate on much tighter budgets find a way to run qualifying sessions.

Not sure whether Pistone came up with this one on his own, or if he had it whispered in his ear by someone at NASCAR. They use these guys to float trial balloons and gauge reaction.
 
Also, he feels a sense of "impending doom" because a couple teams have been caught breaking rules and penalized. His first answer: stop qualifying.

If that doesn't work, maybe don't run the races. Too much risk. Da fuh is wrong with these people?
 
FLRacingFan said:
This would be universally bad as the fans would be pissed they'd have on-track activity taken away from them, the tracks would be pissed because there would be fewer paying fans, and the networks would be pissed because they'd be losing inventory for no good reason.
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Does anyone show up for Friday Q? Look at the stands; there's nobody there. Extending practice by another 45 minutes would remedy most of your issues. As to network inventory, Q coverage is already padded with 15 minutes of BS before the start and another 20 minutes on the back end.
Spotter22 said:
That would spin the crew chiefs out. Should I go race or Q run? :eek:
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Spotter22 said:
Edited, Never mind, just saw they have 2 practices instead on 1 Saturday.
Run first practice for starting position, subsequent practices for race trim
This is an impound race. You cant do that
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Crew chiefs already have to make the decision as to when to run in race or Q trim. But we can eliminate that worry. Start 'em based each car's overall fastest time, regardless of which session that fast lap occurred.
gnomesayin said:
Also, he feels a sense of "impending doom" because a couple teams have been caught breaking rules and penalized. His first answer: stop qualifying.
If that doesn't work, maybe don't run the races. Too much risk. Da fuh is wrong with these people?
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I think the 'impending doom' violations comments are separate from the Q comments. "I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, but in the meantime..."
gnomesayin said:
I'm not sure how all of the other American auto racing series that operate on much tighter budgets find a way to run qualifying sessions.
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No other American series runs a 36-race schedule.
 
Spotter22 said:
Run first practice for starting position, subsequent practices for race trim

This is an impound race. You cant do that
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Charlie Spencer said:
Crew chiefs already have to make the decision as to when to run in race or Q trim. But we can eliminate that worry. Start 'em based each car's overall fastest time, regardless of which session that fast lap occurred.
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I'm familiar, but it would be virtually impossible to do both in one 50 min practice session
 
What about making qualifying like a can-am race. Anyone with a charter is automatically in the race on sunday and would be lined up based on practice times. Teams without a charter need to race into those final 4-8 spots. The non-charter cars that get into the sunday race, still start at the back of the pack on sunday.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Does anyone show up for Friday Q? Look at the stands; there's nobody there. Extending practice by another 45 minutes would remedy most of your issues. As to network inventory, Q coverage is already padded with 15 minutes of BS before the start and another 20 minutes on the back end.
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There are thousands in the campgrounds. They just dont go in to see it. Dont know why
 
gnomesayin said:
Also, he feels a sense of "impending doom" because a couple teams have been caught breaking rules and penalized. His first answer: stop qualifying.

If that doesn't work, maybe don't run the races. Too much risk. Da fuh is wrong with these people?
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I heard that show where they said they hate talking about Penalties so long after the race is over blah blah blah. Heres a thought, quit talking about it. They broke a rule, got busted, end of story.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
No other American series runs a 36-race schedule.
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True of stock car series AFAIK, not all series. No other American series receives more than a tiny fraction of the TV rights money NASCAR gets, which includes paid for televised qualifying.

Time trials can surely be conducted more efficiently. It seems that knockout qualifying is now increasingly viewed as a dud. I don't care whether it lasts or not.
 
Spotter22 said:
Is anyone else listening to these 2 bozos today? Pistone is talking about getting rid of qualifying and just starting them as they finished the week before. Couple of regular Mensa members right here.
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Yeah!!! That's a great idea!!! Lets change things up, throw a wrinkle in things, the fans will love another change.
 
Spotter22 said:
There are thousands in the campgrounds. They just dont go in to see it. Dont know why
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Because it's boring. Most of the action in the first two sessions doesn't take place until the final minutes. Between the three sessions, there's 35 minutes on the Q clock, spread out over ... what, 45 minutes of 'real world' clock time? Of those 35 minutes, there's maybe 20 minutes of activity, with two breaks in the middle of that.

Because it's pointless, but I've already commented on that. Pistone agrees, but I don't know if that helps my case.

It's entertaining enough from climate-controlled Ft. Living Room, but if I was camping for the weekend, I wouldn't trek to the track just for P and Q on a Friday. If it's a three-race weekend, I'd certainly catch P and Q before the Truck / other race.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Because it's boring. Most of the action in the first two sessions doesn't take place until the final minutes. Between the three sessions, there's 35 minutes on the Q clock, spread out over ... what, 45 minutes of 'real world' clock time? Of those 35 minutes, there's maybe 20 minutes of activity, with two breaks in the middle of that.

Because it's pointless, but I've already commented on that. Pistone agrees, but I don't know if that helps my case.

It's entertaining enough from climate-controlled Ft. Living Room, but if I was camping for the weekend, I wouldn't trek to the track just for P and Q on a Friday. If it's a three-race weekend, I'd certainly catch P and Q before the Truck / other race.
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Not boring to me. Bring a stop watch, scan the teams and see what they are trying. Be creative, its not difficult. I imagine sitting at the motorhome is better? No thanks.
 
Spotter22 said:
Not boring to me. Bring a stop watch, scan the teams and see what they are trying. Be creative, its not difficult. I imagine sitting at the motorhome is better? No thanks.
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Forgive me, I forgot the disclaimer on my earlier post.

DISCLAIMER: I'm playing Devil's Advocate on the 'Boring!' part, tossing a theory at the wall to see which ones may stick. I've never camped at a race, and I've never gone to the track on a day that included only P and Q with no race. On those days that do include a supporting race, my butt is in the stand for every lap of on-track action, including any and all P and Q for any and all series. END DISCLAIMER.

But I do question the value of Q these days, and stand by my statements that starting position itself doesn't matter as much as it used to.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Forgive me, I forgot the disclaimer on my earlier post.

DISCLAIMER: I'm playing Devil's Advocate on the 'Boring!' part, tossing a theory at the wall to see which ones may stick. I've never camped at a race, and I've never gone to the track on a day that included only P and Q with no race. On those days that do include a supporting race, my butt is in the stand for every lap of on-track action, including any and all P and Q for any and all series. END DISCLAIMER.

But I do question the value of Q these days, and stand by my statements that starting position itself doesn't matter as much as it used to.
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So for example, you don't think qualifying position makes any difference? Harvick qualified tenth last weekend and wrecked himself trying to get to the front. Qualifying position always makes a difference.
 
Do most fans really care about qualifying though? It's not as important as it used to be.

I'm in the minority but I enjoyed single car qualifying more than this knockout qualifying stuff. See, at the short tracks at least around here, they do group qualifying for the big races and single car qualifying for weekly shows which is totally backwards. Single car qualifying adds an element of intensity you don't get from knockout qualifying or group qualifying.

I don't watch Cup qualifying at all anymore, not even for the 500.
 
I just want to know where you guys are coming up with "qualifying doesnt really matter anymore". ?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Do most fans really care about qualifying though? It's not as important as it used to be.

I'm in the minority but I enjoyed single car qualifying more than this knockout qualifying stuff. See, at the short tracks at least around here, they do group qualifying for the big races and single car qualifying for weekly shows which is totally backwards. Single car qualifying adds an element of intensity you don't get from knockout qualifying or group qualifying.

I don't watch Cup qualifying at all anymore, not even for the 500.
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This ^

I really thought when they announced the current format, that it sounded pretty good. The more I saw of it, the more I came to hate it. I don't hate many things about NASCAR but today's qualifying format is one of them. I miss the single car runs against the clock. Today's method is a complete mess.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This ^

I really thought when they announced the current format, that it sounded pretty good. The more I saw of it, the more I came to hate it. I don't hate many things about NASCAR but today's qualifying format is one of them. I miss the single car runs against the clock. Today's method is a complete mess.
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The other thing I liked was TV coverage of single car qualifying. Every single driver got airtime and it gave the commentators an opportunity to talk about some up-and-coming driver or someone we don't otherwise hear about.

I loathe and detest knockout qualifying.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The other thing I liked was TV coverage of single car qualifying. Every single driver got airtime and it gave the commentators an opportunity to talk about some up-and-coming driver or someone we don't otherwise hear about.

I loathe and detest knockout qualifying.
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The ghost car was also an interesting feature. Liked to see the real-time display comparing the runs.
 
gnomesayin said:
I don't know what to say to this. Much of it is too stupid on its face to take seriously.
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I remember saying the exact same thing back in 2003 when I heard Jimmy Spencer talk about an idea for a NASCAR "playoffs"on one of the afternoon race shows on TV. A couple months later it was reality.....
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The other thing I liked was TV coverage of single car qualifying. Every single driver got airtime and it gave the commentators an opportunity to talk about some up-and-coming driver or someone we don't otherwise hear about.

I loathe and detest knockout qualifying.
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sit there for 20 minutes and watch cars that will never win go by. The new way culls them in the first round and then the get to the nitty gritty cars are left.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The other thing I liked was TV coverage of single car qualifying. Every single driver got airtime and it gave the commentators an opportunity to talk about some up-and-coming driver or someone we don't otherwise hear about.

I loathe and detest knockout qualifying.
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Knock out qualifying is one of the FEW changes the last few years that I am actually OK with. I was skeptical, but I'm fine with it.
 
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