The phenomenon of title contenders winning the final race.

Team Penske said:
In your mind maybe. Describe to me how your going to run a race with only 10 cars in it and try to convince the spectacle will be so great as to attract 80,000 seat buyers? You won't and can't.
People going to watch a football game will not go if all you have is a quarterback and receiver for each team and 2 guys trying to play defense. Football has many different players with individual jobs and the apposing team has the same. A race car driver has his car and pit crew period.
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I'm going to run a race with 36 cars throughout the season , giving points for every race, rewarding consistency and wins, laps lead throughout the season. No convoluted F'ed up Chase....what is a chase anyway? No local track does it why does Cup insist on a fake, drama instilled ,fabricated Chase with Stages?
 
Mopardh9 said:
I'm going to run a race with 36 cars throughout the season , giving points for every race, rewarding consistency and wins, laps lead throughout the season. No convoluted F'ed up Chase....what is a chase anyway? No local track does it why does Cup insist on a fake, drama instilled ,fabricated Chase with Stages?
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JG and a few other big time drivers ruined the racing by only racing the last 50 laps and was on cruise control the first half of the race. That was why Nascar had to change the system.
Stages FORCED drivers to race. The first year did you notice that most stayed on cruise until it finally sunk in they had to race or Truex could win the season before the chase started?
Most people on here admit that that stage racing has forced the drivers to race more. Trying to earn points 3 times in a race is much better in my opinion.
 
Team Penske said:
JG and a few other big time drivers ruined the racing by only racing the last 50 laps and was on cruise control the first half of the race. That was why Nascar had to change the system.
Stages FORCED drivers to race. The first year did you notice that most stayed on cruise until it finally sunk in they had to race or Truex could win the season before the chase started?
Most people on here admit that that stage racing has forced the drivers to race more. Trying to earn points 3 times in a race is much better in my opinion.
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Stages are nothing more than a debris caution. There is nothing wrong with saving you car, it's calked strategy, maybe you have heard of it?
 
Mopardh9 said:
Stages are nothing more than a debris caution. There is nothing wrong with saving you car, it's calked strategy, maybe you have heard of it?
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That is bull crap put forth by people who got a trophy for signing up.
Racing has nothing to do with saving your car. Saving the car is what you do when you have no chance of winning or your driving for a mediocre team who is going for the pay day.
 
Team Penske said:
That is bull crap put forth by people who got a trophy for signing up.
Racing has nothing to do with saving your car. Saving the car is what you do when you have no chance of winning or your driving for a mediocre team who is going for the pay day.
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Omg...then you never watched a post race interview, talk about clueless.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Omg...then you never watched a post race interview, talk about clueless.
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I have listened to many driver spout drivel and repeat what they are told to say.
About 5 years ago I stated changing the channel after the race to spare myself the sponsor garbage. I listened to Tony rage about somebody is going to get killed then he went on the track and wrecked another car. Race car drivers have to ability to drive real fast and see everything in slow motion, smart has nothing to do with it.
 
Team Penske said:
Nascar is NOT a stick and ball sport. Why can't people just accept that fact and quit trying to compare them. Horses race against the entire field even though there are really only about 1/3 who have a chance. Yet one horse can take out the possible winners leaving the milkman to win. Who really CARES how football or baseball determine a champion????
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Certainly not me, except for when I'm watching football or baseball of course.

Unfortunately, the people who DO care about it are the Nascar bosses who looked at the way the attendance and TV ratings always spike for the "playoffs" in those other sports and decided they are hell-bent on finding a way to get a piece of that pie. They don't realize they were already eating that pie - it was just spread out throughout the season.
 
Isn't it strange how some people that have never driven a race car in an actual race think they know and understand how a top race car driver is able to do his job. I know because I tried it but wasn't very good at it. I knew that I didn't have the skills to make crucial decisions at high rates of speed. I could have made it on local short tracks but it was too much of a commitment for me to make at the time and I'm proud of the fact that I recognized this and pursued other endeavors. Know your limitations is advice that my pop gave me and damn good advice it was and still is.
 
Jeff Turner said:
What makes it so awkward trying to come up with a "playoff" format for this sport is the nature of the contests - all the teams play in the same game at the same time, as opposed to a sport like football or baseball, or even drag racing, where you would see head-to-head contests, which allow one competitor to be eliminated and the other to advance.

I'm just not sure it's really meant to be.
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Auto racing is indeed not like a stick and ball sport but NASCAR, with its way of determining a champion, is trying to be like stick and ball sports.

Unlike those sports, in an auto racing series all the teams play in the same "game" at the same time.

So after a certain number of events, where every competitor has competed against every every other competitor, why isn't the competitor with the best overall finishes in those events simply declared the champion ?

I agree, the playoff elimination format, and the previous Chase format for that matter, is really not meant to be.
 
When they started this whole idea of a playoff back in 2004 I really thought itwas unnecessary, but if they insisted on doing something to drive up interest in the end of the season, the easiest way, as I said before, would have been to simply make the later races worth more points. That's the kind of change that is much easier to tweak and/or scrap, based on how it played out from year to year.
 
I thought I would refresh everyone's memory and bring back this topic.
Just to remind us all what is really happening in the race for the championship .
Let's us remember what Allenbaba told us ; a person in the garage,.that Nascar let's the top four teams cheat up the cars.
Plus the little fact of the other 34 teams are not to race the final four. What about that little rule Nascar came up with that all teams must give 100% ? Or face a penalty. Remember what Kyle Larson said in 2017, he backed off as to not try and win the race. He didn't want to interfere with Truex and Busch.
Are we happy this is what a championship and champion has become?
 
nitetrain said:
I thought I would refresh everyone's memory and bring back this topic.
Just to remind us all what is really happening in the race for the championship .
Let's us remember what Allenbaba told us ; a person in the garage,.that Nascar let's the top four teams cheat up the cars.
Plus the little fact of the other 34 teams are not to race the final four. What about that little rule Nascar came up with that all teams must give 100% ? Or face a penalty. Remember what Kyle Larson said in 2017, he backed off as to not try and win the race. He didn't want to interfere with Truex and Busch.
Are we happy this is what a championship and champion has become?
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Not one shred of truth to this, not one.
 
When you stumble into a nascar phenomenon thread you haven't seen before :)

If they allow a non-final4 driver to win the finale, we'll know... that they know... the jig is up. If the string of final4 winners continues what are the statistical odds of that continuing to happen? Boom we've got em either way they go.
 
Johali said:
Isn't it strange how some people that have never driven a race car in an actual race think they know and understand how a top race car driver is able to do his job.

I know because I tried it but wasn't very good at it.

I knew that I didn't have the skills to make crucial decisions at high rates of speed.

I could have made it on local short tracks but it was too much of a commitment for me to make at the time and I'm proud of the fact that I recognized this and pursued other endeavors.

Know your limitations is advice that my pop gave me and damn good advice it was and still is.
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Classic Gator

:salute:
 
Turtle84 said:
When you stumble into a nascar phenomenon thread you haven't seen before :)

If they allow a non-final4 driver to win the finale, we'll know... that they know... the jig is up. If the string of final4 winners continues what are the statistical odds of that continuing to happen? Boom we've got em either way they go.
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A complaint for every outcome.

Boom indeed.
 
nitetrain said:
I thought I would refresh everyone's memory and bring back this topic.
Just to remind us all what is really happening in the race for the championship .
Let's us remember what Allenbaba told us ; a person in the garage,.that Nascar let's the top four teams cheat up the cars.
Plus the little fact of the other 34 teams are not to race the final four. What about that little rule Nascar came up with that all teams must give 100% ? Or face a penalty. Remember what Kyle Larson said in 2017, he backed off as to not try and win the race. He didn't want to interfere with Truex and Busch.
Are we happy this is what a championship and champion has become?
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Your a couple of three years short on the 100% rule. The stages have pretty much eliminated it. I guess you can go find Bubba and ask him if he gave it 100% at Homestead
 
I mean, Larson had every right to pass both of them with a faster car, but I did gain some respect trying to let the 18 & 78 battle it out.
 
The 4 title guys do have cheated up cars. They might as well be the only ones racing, Sunday. Just watch the 4 guys will have the 4 fastest cars
 
Maybe they have cheated up cars, but I doubt it. I do say I think nascar will look the other way in post race tech unless is just something so far out there. They don't want the optics of someone to get caught cheating that just won the championship.

I think the biggest thing is nascar makes everyone else afraid to race around those guys in fear of "messing up the show". So they just let them past and won't run them hard for positions

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Kyle hasn't won a race in six months and gets to race for the title Sunday.

I thought people couldn't cruise to a title anymore.
 
ReturnTrip said:
Kyle hasn't won a race in six months and gets to race for the title Sunday.

I thought people couldn't cruise to a title anymore.
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Yeah IMO he's definitely limped his way into the final 4

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hidesert cowboy said:
The 4 title guys do have cheated up cars. They might as well be the only ones racing, Sunday. Just watch the 4 guys will have the 4 fastest cars
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Um, those cars have been the fastest pretty much all year. Look out behind you!
 
wi_racefan said:
Maybe they have cheated up cars, but I doubt it. I do say I think nascar will look the other way in post race tech unless is just something so far out there. They don't want the optics of someone to get caught cheating that just won the championship.

I think the biggest thing is nascar makes everyone else afraid to race around those guys in fear of "messing up the show". So they just let them past and won't run them hard for positions

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I have a feeling Joey will be driving just like Newman this Sunday.
Pass me " if you can" regardless of who it is and especially if your name is Hamlin.
 
wi_racefan said:
Maybe they have cheated up cars, but I doubt it. I do say I think nascar will look the other way in post race tech unless is just something so far out there. They don't want the optics of someone to get caught cheating that just won the championship.

I think the biggest thing is nascar makes everyone else afraid to race around those guys in fear of "messing up the show". So they just let them past and won't run them hard for positions

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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I'll put my tinfoil hat on and say they're advised to not bury the 4 on pit road strategy either. Combine that with "not running them hard" and it's easy to see why 4 of the fastest cars would keep winning the races.

No idea if "allowances" are happening or continuing to happen. NASCAR using every angle to prop up their finale, doesn't seem far fetched.
 
Team Penske said:
I have a feeling Joey will be driving just like Newman this Sunday.
Pass me " if you can" regardless of who it is and especially if your name is Hamlin.
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Penske, CGR, HMS, 3 of the best teams have nothing to lose going for a race win (except ya know the guilt of wrecking out a championship driver). Seems like a good year to break the cycle to keep suspicions down. Let's see how they race now that everyone is comfortable with this system.
 
somebody with the exception of last year show me when the four cars racing for the finish have finished 1-4 ? I must have forgotten my tin foil hat.
 
StandOnIt said:
made for a good story. I could have caught them but I didn't.
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He did catch the 18 and was pushing the hell out of him.

I'm not saying the the Championship 4 guys aren't the best because they have to RACE and not point their way, but it severely dampens what the other guys can do and the moral code in the garage.
 
It’s not that one of the final 4 wins the race.

It’s that, barring a wreck or mechanical failure, all of the final 4 seemingly end up basically finishing P1-P4 and are the fastest cars all day.

We haven’t seen a team “just miss it” while making big swings for the biggest race of their careers.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
It’s not that one of the final 4 wins the race.

It’s that, barring a wreck or mechanical failure, all of the final 4 seemingly end up basically finishing P1-P4 and are the fastest cars all day.

We haven’t seen a team “just miss it” while making big swings for the biggest race of their careers.
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I dunno, the 78 team had that great season in 2015 that was the start of something special but finished 12th.
 
At Phoenix, quiet as the gerbils kept it, must wins Blaney and Larson finished 3rd and 4th. Tin foil hats would believe that the Gibbs cars 1 and 2, were cheated up because Nascar wanted them to win and Joey's mysterious falling from the lead was tire sabotage by Nascar because they didn't want Joey to win 2 years in a row. o_O
 
If the title contenders aren't up front I expect everyone else to run them hard like any other race. But I think anyone not racing to win the race will cut the contenders slack.
 
With this package on a 1.5 I have no idea. They have just as much a chance of cutting a tire, or getting hit going for a spot as they have had all season long. They all want to qualify well, hopefully on the pole, and by any means control the race.
 
Thru the years all sports have been hit with a '' Tell All '' book about shady happenings in the sport...Not NASCAR..Are they that strong that not one of a hundred drivers that people would know has not come out with a book ??? Some thing to think about..
 
saltysenior said:
Thru the years all sports have been hit with a '' Tell All '' book about shady happenings in the sport...Not NASCAR..Are they that strong that not one of a hundred drivers that people would know has not come out with a book ??? Some thing to think about..
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Several drivers have come out against nascar manipulating things. Jeff Gordon said they told him to keep his leads down to 3 seconds.

In Rich Bickles book he said in a truck race that they flat out told him if he led by too much they would black flag him. Another time he showed up with a car so far off there was no way it would fit the templates, but they allowed it anyway because his sponsor was also sponsoring the race. In that case qualifying got rained out so he didn't end of making the field.

Nascar has done some shading things in the past, they're just better at hiding it when you have less competitors

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if anyone thinks this last race is not in nascar's controll, just google up Las Vegas's odds for who will win the RACE....They know more than us....the 4 cars are heavy favorites while all others are long shots......I wish I had a bookie , as the 22 is 25 to 1 and the 2 is 30 to 1
 
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