The shake and bake adjustment, 19 sandbagging?

hidesert cowboy

hidesert cowboy

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as I watched the closing few laps yesterday, The battle for the race win was between the 4 car and the 19, the 4 car was pulling a big lead on the 19, in fact the 19 radios in and says I am wide open and he is pulling away. BTW I don't believe that. I find it pretty darn strange that after they put on tires that the 19 not only passes the 4 car but manages to put 3 seconds on him in 25 laps of time. This just seems like way way too much time to make up on the leader who isn't exactly driving a slow car.

I heard Steve Latarte say that he felt like all the play off crew chiefs were holding something back for the play offs. That they were holding back and not using everything they had to before the playoffs. This was meant specifically to advantages they might be holding back with the car itself. I am wondering if truex was sandbagging and then stepped on the gas in those final laps. Thats what it looked like happened to me. he simply mashed the gas all the way and drove away from the 4 car. I simply do not see that much a difference made on a pit stop adjustment, I would have to look but it may have just been tire pressure. the have's and have nots in speed is pretty darn striking these days. The gibbs cars have something, well at least the 18 and 19 do.
 
The 9 was faster than Truex on that last run. They had their car dialed in for nighttime, and good as Pearn has been at that in previous years, I think that's all it was. They just made it better.
 
so the car goes from, "I am wide open and still can't catch the 4, gosh he is fast" pit stop for new tires, suddenly the car picks up 4/tenths at least, on the 4 car which also has new tires, 4 car gets passed and a 4 second lead is had over 20 laps. umm yeah its fishy, I call it the shake and bake adjustment. the 19 was sandbagging at the end. What I can't go back and see was how much the 19 car picked up on the 4 when both had fresh tires on at the last pit stop.
 
Well first off, what value would their have been for Truex in sandbagging on the second to last run? Secondly, have you considered that maybe Harvick just wasn't as fast as he had been on the final run? Both drivers kind of implied that after the race. Lots of factors come into play; chassis adjustments, tire pressures, differences between sets of tires, and the fact that the track was still transitioning from the heat of the day into the coolness of the night. Some of the tracks seem to go though a very weird cycle as the sun sets for about a half hour or so and if you're not careful you can adjust yourself right out of contention. Also consider that we were told that the SHR cars were very low drag low downforce cars, while the JGR cars had much more downforce. It's extremely possible that the track conditions finally lined up JUST RIGHT for Truex. As was mentioned, it appears that Elliott's car was reacting very much the same as Truex's was, and was REALLY hauling the mail over the last run, but couldn't make up for the lost track position.
 
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if the track is cooled off and its night, that would suggest a car that is trimmed out and has less downforce in it, doesn't need it because its got more grip from the conditions. That would seem to fit right into the SHR cars strength and go against the JGR cars. look I get everything you are saying. the tech parts of all this I am very interested in. I am aware of what can help or hurt these cars after 20 years of watching the sport. All I am saying is picking up 4 tenths on the lead car who isn't slow, is an insane amount of time and extra speed. Its huge. it would mean that truex could have lapped the 4 car and put them a lap down over the course of about 65 laps!! For what its worth 65 laps is just a bit over a full fuel run.
 
I would like to see the laser inspection data for a low drag / low downforce car compared to the data derived from a high drag / high downforce car.

Naturally, both cars passed inspection.
 
Talledega-Nights-5-Ricky-Bobbie-Burble-and-Balter.jpg
 
Formerjackman said:
Well first off, what value would their have been for Truex in sandbagging on the second to last run? Secondly, have you considered that maybe Harvick just wasn't as fast as he had been on the final run? Both drivers kind of implied that after the race. Lots of factors come into play; chassis adjustments, tire pressures, differences between sets of tires, and the fact that the track was still transitioning from the heat of the day into the coolness of the night. Some of the tracks seem to go though a very weird cycle as the sun sets for about a half hour or so and if you're not careful you can adjust yourself right out of contention. Also consider that we were told that the SHR cars were very low drag low downforce cars, while the JGR cars had much more downforce. It's extremely possible that the track conditions finally lined up JUST RIGHT for Truex. As was mentioned, it appears that Elliott's car was reacting very much the same as Truex's was, and was REALLY hauling the mail over the last run, but couldn't make up for the lost track position.
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The value would be in making Harvick think he's got Truex covered on speed so he doesn't think he needs to get any faster, while staying in striking distance, let the last stop happen, and then drop the hammer. That would be textbook sandbagging going into the last pit stop.

I believe your explanation though. It looked like the track came to Truex's car and Harvick's got worse after the last stop. Simple explanation and happens all of the time. Possible they missed on an adjustment trying to keep up with the track, or air pressure wasn't right on his last set of tires. It didn't line up with what the announcers were touting Harvick as a low drag/low downforce car as it gets cooler and cooler at night he's got all of this extra grip to go with his extra straightaway speed, he should easily win if it stays green. That didn't end up happening, he lost grip and his car wasn't in the track like it was before his last run, while Truex/Pearn hit perfectly on theirs.
 
Turtle84 said:
The value would be in making Harvick think he's got Truex covered on speed so he doesn't think he needs to get any faster, while staying in striking distance, let the last stop happen, and then drop the hammer. That would be textbook sandbagging going into the last pit stop.

I believe your explanation though. It looked like the track came to Truex's car and Harvick's got worse after the last stop. Simple explanation and happens all of the time. Possible they missed on an adjustment trying to keep up with the track, or air pressure wasn't right on his last set of tires. It didn't line up with what the announcers were touting Harvick as a low drag/low downforce car as it gets cooler and cooler at night he's got all of this extra grip to go with his extra straightaway speed, he should easily win if it stays green. That didn't end up happening, he lost grip and his car wasn't in the track like it was before his last run, while Truex/Pearn hit perfectly on theirs.
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You could be right on the strategy, but boy that's a dangerous game to play. As hard as it can be to pass at times, if you have a chance to go up and pass somebody and build up a lead, you had better take it. That sounds more like a Paul Wolfe head game move than a Pearn move, but who knows?
 
jeff gordon recently admitted to sandbagging back in his glory years. I think nascar even told him to quit stinking up the show. once he got to a 7 second lead he would back off and maintain it. look if a guy just runs off away from all the cars, its going to raise everyone eye brow. win just barely and now one is going to think anything. it would be very interesting to go back and look at lap times as the end of the race.
 
Formerjackman said:
You could be right on the strategy, but boy that's a dangerous game to play. As hard as it can be to pass at times, if you have a chance to go up and pass somebody and build up a lead, you had better take it. That sounds more like a Paul Wolfe head game move than a Pearn move, but who knows?
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Very risky game to play. Bad pit stop and it's too much ground to make up. Car goes south and you can't close the gap like you thought you would. Leader gets faster anyway and you passed up your chance.
 
I wish MY TRD powered Toyotas were fast enough to sandbag, and then stomp the competition at the end, but they aren't. Cole hit the adjustment. Martin did what Martin does which is to take a good car, and drive it fast.
 
Sounds like something David Pearson would do.......
 
The transition from day to night requires bigger changes to the car. Usually the early leaders aren't around at the end. But the team & crew chief can set up the car for that transition and if they guess right and the driver gives them the right information they can have the car at its best at the end.
 
Sometimes you will see a car that does well in the day also do well with adjustments and stay out front when it gets dark. I've lost count of the times it seemed like Jimmie Johnson could do that back in the day and now Kyle Busch. It doesn't happen often but sometimes it does. Anymore I always look for the race to be won on pit road. And usually these days it's the Toyotas always winning that battle it also helps they have speed. Doesnt matter how good your car is it's hard to win when your pit guys dont get the job done.
 
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