virtualbalboa
driver of corey day bandwagon since 2022
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2023
- Messages
- 968
- Points
- 153
Things are so fixed in terms of the races being competitive that next year NASCAR is going to add a midseason tournament to the mix.
ESPN didn’t bother to bid on the next set of rights back then and there were even reports they were looking at offloading NASCAR to NBC a year early because of the production costs in a lame duck year.My memory might be fading, but I vividly remember watching Kevin Harvick win the inaugural playoff championship on ESPN.
One could argue and rightfully so that the competition, not the gimmicks is the driver of higher ratings along with a much better economy.Haven’t the races on NBC been ratings blockbusters?
Weren’t NBC/USA ratings up across the board last year?
Ratings have been very strong on USA too in spite of competition from the WNBA.
ESPN didn’t bother to bid on the next set of rights back then and there were even reports they were looking at offloading NASCAR to NBC a year early because of the production costs in a lame duck year.
If NBC really didn’t care for it wouldn’t be around anymore.
ESPN and Turner both had an exclusive window with NASCAR and both declined to bid. NASCAR was even expecting ESPN to put in for a decent pay bump. It worked out for everyone in the end though.Not entirely accurate.
IIRC, ESPN wanted the Cup Series playoffs and nothing else, which was a non-starter when NBC was knocking on the door.
How could anybody in their right mind not think that. More game show nonsense. I believe fans of Nascar racing don't give a hoot about all of that.Regardless, if NBC didn’t care for the format it wouldn’t be around anymore. The fact that it’s only evolved under them, and will now be a bigger portion of their package, indicates to me they’re proponents of the way it’s designed.
ESPN and Turner both had an exclusive window with NASCAR and both declined to bid. NASCAR was even expecting ESPN to put in for a decent pay bump. It worked out for everyone in the end though.
NBC steps up, lands NASCAR
www.sportsbusinessjournal.com
Regardless, if NBC didn’t care for the format it wouldn’t be around anymore. The fact that it’s only evolved under them, and will now be a bigger portion of their package, indicates to me they’re proponents of the way it’s designed.
More game show nonsense.
So NBC signs a big new TV contract for the back half of the season and it’s announced six months later that there’s a new playoff format. Sure, there was one lame duck year in between (where it was at least plausible for some time that NBC could’ve taken over early). But none of that seems like coincidence. Broadcasters want to have an influence in decision-making for the money they put up these days, and NBC has an interest in making their races matter as much as possible. I wonder if the bracketed summer tournament appearing in TNT’s portion of next year’s schedule had any input from WBD executives?Nobody's saying NBC doesn't care for the format, lol.
@StandOnIt, who blames "The Gerbs" for everything, pretty much blamed NBC for its inception. And the guy's been supportive of every NASCAR decision up until Kyle Busch, who he hated until Kyle went to a Chevy, was faced with a must win situation.
Lol, if you don't think so, have at it lol. You are the same guy that says this current points system is easy to understand right?Is it any less “gimmicky” than some of the pre-Latford systems?
So NBC signs a big new TV contract for the back half of the season and it’s announced six months later that there’s a new playoff format. Sure, there was one lame duck year in between (where it was at least plausible for some time that NBC could’ve taken over early). But none of that seems like coincidence. Broadcasters want to have an influence in decision-making for the money they put up these days, and NBC has an interest in making their races matter as much as possible. I wonder if the bracketed summer tournament appearing in TNT’s portion of next year’s schedule had any input from WBD executives?
Yeah, I thought that too, until a few months ago. It turns out the 'top 30' requirement was dropped a few years back.
So I know where you're coming from, man; I've been there myself. But the first step in resolving a problem is acknowledging there IS a problem. Not doing so isn't just hurting you; it hurts those around you on the forum. Please, Google for a local T30A * chapter, and I'm here for you if you need a mentor. There's a way out, if you'll just ask for help.
* Top 30 Anonymous, a 12-step program for those who want support finding their way back to the current rulebook.
Lol, if you don't think so, have at it lol. You are the same guy that says this current points system is easy to understand right?
No, don't go...If it wasn't for your post I wouldn't have known about the T30A meetings. I had hit rock bottom and now I am searching for a new life purpose.Sorry, I re-checked NASCAR's points and Chase eligibility standings and find that my previous post is wrong. Found the source I used was wrong (and has since changed). I withdraw all of my previous comment and admit to being a fool.
This is why I have largely remained "gone", and I promise to go back to being "gone".
No it's simple. I don't care about earlier points systems. The thread is about current points systems. A system that you have posted that is easy to understand. I don't agree with that. Is that plain enough for you?You doubling down on this being difficult to understand doesn’t reflect well on you.
No it's simple. I don't care about earlier points systems. The thread is about current points systems. A system that you have posted that is easy to understand. I don't agree with that. Is that plain enough for you?
Read post 95 again.You’re throwing around the word “gimmick.” Was the NASCAR Grand National Championship a gimmick?
Read post 95 again.
Maybe you can give us a history of them. I personally don't care.Do you only consider championships from 1975-2003 to be legitimate? Were pre-1975 also “game show points?”
You’re questioning the legitimacy of a large portion of the championships here.
Do you only consider championships from 1975-2003 to be legitimate? Were pre-1975 also “game show points?”
You’re questioning the legitimacy of a large portion of the championships here.
They are legitimate based solely on the fact that everyone knew what the rules were going in and everybody competed under those same rules, but SOME of the systems used were out and out laughable and absurd. Some of the 60's formats were weighted so heavily towards the longer speedway races, that short tracks became almost worthless. Take 1966 for example. Paul Goldsmith (a national treasure by the way) finished fifth in the season points, despite only running HALF of the races champion David Pearson ran. Bobby Allison finished 10th, having run only 33 of 49 events. In 1963, Fred Lorenzen finished 3rd in points despite running 24 fewer races than champion Joe Weatherly. Danny Letner ran ONE race and finished 55th in points, which sounds about right until you realize 121 drivers ran races and finished BEHIND him in points.Do you only consider championships from 1975-2003 to be legitimate? Were pre-1975 also “game show points?”
You’re questioning the legitimacy of a large portion of the championships here.
They are legitimate based solely on the fact that everyone knew what the rules were going in and everybody competed under those same rules, but SOME of the systems used were out and out laughable and absurd. Some of the 60's formats were weighted so heavily towards the longer speedway races, that short tracks became almost worthless. Take 1966 for example. Paul Goldsmith (a national treasure by the way) finished fifth in the season points, despite only running HALF of the races champion David Pearson ran. Bobby Allison finished 10th, having run only 33 of 49 events. In 1963, Fred Lorenzen finished 3rd in points despite running 24 fewer races than champion Joe Weatherly. Danny Letner ran ONE race and finished 55th in points, which sounds about right until you realize 121 drivers ran races and finished BEHIND him in points.
Exactly my point. Every championship format crowns a legitimate champion. Everyone knows the rules going in.
Personally I am fine with the stage points, they should be added into the points total immediately after the race. Neither network hardly mentions or tallys up the stage points during the race which is simple to do and easy to add to their vocabulary. As you noticed, it sometimes happens that the winner of the race doesn't earn as much as a car that finished high in the stages.If your perspective is that racing should crown champions based on full season performance, then any other system is not going to be acceptable.
I don't want to debate this endlessly, but here's how I'd summarize my position. This year in 9 of the 26 races (approx 34% of the events) the car who accumulated the largest number of points was not the winner. In 7 of those 9 instances (approx 27% of the events), the driver who scored the most number of points was already "locked in" by having won a race. Scoring a race like a golf event while giving the win to whomever has the equivalent of low score on Sunday does not correlate to a system, IMO, that encourages winning above all else and the evidence suggests exactly that. But I accept that my opinion may be a minority of current NASCAR fans and current NASCAR fans are used to this and expect this. So it is what it is. Those fans have what they want, and if they want me to have hit the bricks as a result of these changes, then they achieved their goals.
Legitimate doesn't equal sensible, or fair or right. None of the other systems were perfect either, but the current system is a sad joke.Exactly my point. Every championship format crowns a legitimate champion. Everyone knows the rules going in.
The system is legitimized by the competitors by their presence at every event.Just because they write down some nonsensical points system and call it good doesn't mean it is legitimate. It means it is accepted by the people in power who made it.
The 1974 format is the most god-awful mess of a points system there ever was. It was mostly based on earnings, so winning the Daytona 500 pretty much guaranteed a championship. David Pearson finished 3rd in points despite only starting 19 of 30 races, but had less than half the points that champion Richard Petty had. Fortunately that format was put out of its misery after just one season.They are legitimate based solely on the fact that everyone knew what the rules were going in and everybody competed under those same rules, but SOME of the systems used were out and out laughable and absurd. Some of the 60's formats were weighted so heavily towards the longer speedway races, that short tracks became almost worthless. Take 1966 for example. Paul Goldsmith (a national treasure by the way) finished fifth in the season points, despite only running HALF of the races champion David Pearson ran. Bobby Allison finished 10th, having run only 33 of 49 events. In 1963, Fred Lorenzen finished 3rd in points despite running 24 fewer races than champion Joe Weatherly. Danny Letner ran ONE race and finished 55th in points, which sounds about right until you realize 121 drivers ran races and finished BEHIND him in points.
The problem is that during the process of racing in stages 1 & 2, those sums are constantly changing. So yeah, you'd need to automate it and make it part of the broadcast (more tickers!) to make it followable, which is indicative of one of the core issues that I have with the system. But again, if this is what the majority of the fans want after it being the norm for this long, and that's how NASCAR wants to move forwards, then it is what it is. I have to accept that this is what it is since I have no power to change it. The only choice I'm afforded is whether I watch/attend or not. If I watch, which is increasingly rare to do, I watch the last 10 laps since I know it'll take an hour to run them. I recognize how much this makes me sound like someone who says they only watch the last two minutes of an NFL game. To that, I say:Personally I am fine with the stage points, they should be added into the points total immediately after the race. Neither network hardly mentions or tallys up the stage points during the race which is simple to do and easy to add to their vocabulary. As you noticed, it sometimes happens that the winner of the race doesn't earn as much as a car that finished high in the stages.
So simple for them to say for example: The leader in the series, the 7 car going into the last stage has15 points and the #2 seed the 14 has 12 points so far. The winner gets an additional 30 points for this race.
It's no problem. They have a break after both stages, announce it before they drop the flag after the commercials. It doesn't need to be on a ticker fluctuating constantly irritating the viewers.The problem is that during the process of racing in stages 1 & 2, those sums are constantly changing. So yeah, you'd need to automate it and make it part of the broadcast (more tickers!) to make it followable, which is indicative of one of the core issues that I have with the system. But again, if this is what the majority of the fans want after it being the norm for this long, and that's how NASCAR wants to move forwards, then it is what it is. I have to accept that this is what it is since I have no power to change it. The only choice I'm afforded is whether I watch/attend or not. If I watch, which is increasingly rare to do, I watch the last 10 laps since I know it'll take an hour to run them. I recognize how much this makes me sound like someone who says they only watch the last two minutes of an NFL game. To that, I say: