Time for NASCAR to revisit top 30 rule

MRM

MRM

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NASCAR needs to revisit their former rule where a driver had to be in top 30 in points to get into the playoffs with a win. I can't remember if Austin Dillon was, or still is, outside the top 30. Harrison Burton is. Drivers like this should not be taking playoff spots that run much better than them because they win a lottery race at Daytona or Talladega. Or just make those races not count toward a playoff spot. This is the equivalent to last year's Chicago Bears beating the San Francisco 49ers in the regular season and automatically getting a playoff spot.
 
Here again, the thing is what happend this weekend with Harrison Burton clinching a playoff spot is EXACTLY what NASCAR wanted with this "win and you're in" format.

I think you should have to be top 20 in points.
 
Get rid of the whole "win and you are in" jackpot thing. This isn't a game show. If you are going to have to have a stick and ball playoff at least have proper contestants who have acquired enough points to be in the playoffs, not fake drivers who won a plate race. Plate races, another reason to eliminate "win and you are in" nonsense.
 
Get rid of the win and your in, give the winner of a race like 50 bonus points (not playoff points). That gives enough incentive to win but doesn't make someone 29th in points get a playoff spot. I'm fine with the rest of the playoffs without win and your in.
 
Just get rid of the automatic win qualifier and award playoffs to top 15 drivers based on points, and add a wildcard for driver with most wins outside top-15 in points. I feel like that is a decent compromise for everyone assuming the playoffs are here to stay
 
Get rid of win, and you are in,
and simply award 20 additional points for every win.

The top 16 in points would qualify for the playoffs without any exceptions. This would get rid of the win, and you are in, as well as the waiver nonsense, and keep all it about accumulating the most points.

(Cucumbered) Wins that do not measure up to Nascar rules, conduct, or driver code could result in a disqualification or simply a huge points penalty to be determined at Nascars discretion

The playoff rounds would be determined by the points earned in the round, including the 20 additional points for winning a race in that round, but there would be no win and you are in guarantees for the those rounds.

The last race of the season would still determine season long championship for the final four. The best finisher among the final four would be the champion. The worst of the four would finish fourth in the overall championship standings.

For drivers outside of the final four: The total accumulated points for the entire season would determine the final standings for postions 5 through 36 (or whatever the last listed position would be for the season)
 
StandOnIt said:
You sensing a common theme here Sherlock?
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well I've never been accused of being a Sherlock but I might be able to come to the conclusions that some forum members at Racing-Forum's.com are disgruntled with the "Win and You're In" rule and Playoff System.
 
I like the win and your in. It adds a lot of excitement/publicity/money for a team down in the standings to pull something like this off. Realistically, it doesn't matter if you enter the playoffs in any of the lower positions, you are not going to make it to the final four anyway. NASCAR wanted to place a premium on winning and that has been accomplished. Its not any different than some of the college basketball teams that win a tournament and receive an automatic bid to March Madness. We all know a 16 seed can never beat a 1 seed (almost).
 
DIDIT said:
I like the win and your in. It adds a lot of excitement/publicity/money for a team down in the standings to pull something like this off. Realistically, it doesn't matter if you enter the playoffs in any of the lower positions, you are not going to make it to the final four anyway. NASCAR wanted to place a premium on winning and that has been accomplished. Its not any different than some of the college basketball teams that win a tournament and receive an automatic bid to March Madness. We all know a 16 seed can never beat a 1 seed (almost).
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Sort of like if you are gullible to think it works in basketball, it works in racing.
 
Have the NASCAR playoffs produced a single team/driver combo that actually managed to win the title as a Cinderella? Closest I can think of is the year Newman made it to the final race without a single win right after NASCAR instituted a series of rules changes intended to make wins matter more. He still didn't win though.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Have the NASCAR playoffs produced a single team/driver combo that actually managed to win the title as a Cinderella? Closest I can think of is the year Newman made it to the final race without a single win right after NASCAR instituted a series of rules changes intended to make wins matter more. He still didn't win though.
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the Cinderella's get curb stomped in the first round. every time. Which is the way it should be because the body of work for a whole season does indeed and should indeed mean something. I think Austin Dillon in fact almost made it to a round of 8 one year, but other than Newman its escaping me.
 
DIDIT said:
I like the win and your in. It adds a lot of excitement/publicity/money for a team down in the standings....
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We need to re-institute old testament stoning as a reasonable form of punishment.....
 
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Jorge De Guzman said:
the Cinderella's get curb stomped in the first round. every time. Which is the way it should be because the body of work for a whole season does indeed and should indeed mean something. I think Austin Dillon in fact almost made it to a round of 8 one year, but other than Newman its escaping me.
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I'm not interested in arguing if it should or shouldn't be like that, simply asking whether or not it is like that. The strongest reason to discontinue doing it is if the fans perceive that making the playoffs is really a pretty meaningless exercise and it doesn't change their viewing habits or opinions about the series. I'll be honest, I haven't seen that from people who discuss the NASCAR playoffs. I do see lots of chatter about who should or shouldn't be in, which by the metrics NASCAR is likely tracking, is likely sufficient for them to say the system is working.

If Kyle Larson were 17 points back in a year where he missed a race to run at Indy instead, I have a sense that we'd be having a very different discussion about the value of running the double or of Larson's decision. But since it likely won't practically matter for him, we can skip past that.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Have the NASCAR playoffs produced a single team/driver combo that actually managed to win the title as a Cinderella? Closest I can think of is the year Newman made it to the final race without a single win right after NASCAR instituted a series of rules changes intended to make wins matter more. He still didn't win though.
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Probably should go even one more step further in this fairy tale to "The Final Four" (sound familiar?) Who in their right mind thinks having four cars in the final race, all three with worse records than the car that should win the championship outright is fair to crown a champion of a racing series?
It's the same principal as the jackpot of the other lower rounds? There should be no way that these three should win the race over the car with the best series points record right? B.S.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Have the NASCAR playoffs produced a single team/driver combo that actually managed to win the title as a Cinderella? Closest I can think of is the year Newman made it to the final race without a single win right after NASCAR instituted a series of rules changes intended to make wins matter more. He still didn't win though.
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Matt Crafton won a truck title without winning a race a few years ago. That’s the worst one I can think of. Before the playoffs last year Blaney was an afterthought, but he ended up going on a run in the playoffs.
 
Efisher131 said:
Matt Crafton won a truck title without winning a race a few years ago. That’s the worst one I can think of. Before the playoffs last year Blaney was an afterthought, but he ended up going on a run in the playoffs.
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There was no way he would have won a Championship with just about any points system but with the mess that Nascar has now. I know I left the season with a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't Blaney's fault, but this is ridiculous.
The same thing has happened in the Trucks two years running. The best Truck/team didn't win the series.
 
Everybody is okay and living the chase elimination dream.
This is just group think and brainstorming to come up with a plan and way for @WhiningSmoke to live happily ever after....too
 
Efisher131 said:
Matt Crafton won a truck title without winning a race a few years ago. That’s the worst one I can think of. Before the playoffs last year Blaney was an afterthought, but he ended up going on a run in the playoffs.
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5 of the races that year were also won by Kyle Busch; I suppose my point with that is winning as a Cinderella in the equivalent of the NIT or CBI is "nice" but not anything anyone really cares about since you're already coming at it from a perspective of "who is the 73rd best stock car driver in NASCAR".
 
The Nature Boy said:
The funny thing is, no one outside the top 30 had won before this season and then it happened twice.

NASCAR has ****** luck.
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Here's the thing: This was the desired outcome. This was the intent.

Imagine if two drivers racing for 47th place didn't wreck at Richmond and we had both Dillon and Burton in the playoffs.
 
virtualbalboa said:
5 of the races that year were also won by Kyle Busch; I suppose my point with that is winning as a Cinderella in the equivalent of the NIT or CBI is "nice" but not anything anyone really cares about since you're already coming at it from a perspective of "who is the 73rd best stock car driver in NASCAR".
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So you are saying it was OK that Crafton won the Championship because it was the Truck series?
 
DIDIT said:
I like the win and your in. It adds a lot of excitement/publicity/money for a team down in the standings to pull something like this off. Realistically, it doesn't matter if you enter the playoffs in any of the lower positions, you are not going to make it to the final four anyway. NASCAR wanted to place a premium on winning and that has been accomplished. Its not any different than some of the college basketball teams that win a tournament and receive an automatic bid to March Madness. We all know a 16 seed can never beat a 1 seed (almost).
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Everyone knows ahead of time that every conference gets one auto bid and then there are 30+ at-large bids on top of that, so it’s not like those small conference champions are actively stealing bids from anyone. I think 16 is too damn big anyways, but in the interest of putting together the most competitive and exciting playoff field possible, who would be a better add - Ross Chastain or Harrison Burton?

Winning a Cup race is and should be a big deal, but it should be mostly independent of the championship format. There are a lot of positive narratives to be told about Burton’s win at Daytona and yet you have the fan base mostly harping on one glaringly negative aspect of it. It’s almost completely counterintuitive.
 
StandOnIt said:
So you are saying it was OK that Crafton won the Championship because it was the Truck series?
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From an opinion or "objective" standpoint I would ask whether or not it matters who wins the Truck Series championship in the present day. What could it change for a guy like Ty Majeski? Nothing, best I can tell.
 
StandOnIt said:
Jackpot ding ding ding.
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Jackpot indeed.

Obscure driver fired. His future prospects are dim. Somehow he wins a race that vaults his soon to be ex-team into the 2024 playoffs complete with a multi-million dollar payoff.

Miraculously happens to be the 100th win for a fabled team that’s been in existence since David Pearson was a child. Mom Kim up on the box in her customary position accompanied by her future daughter-in-law. The Mayor of NASCAR becomes Ned Jarrett in this moment. Storybook. Cinderella.

Ned, Dale and Martha feature in the commentary. Ditto Wahd Burton and his boy. Tears are shed. Heart strings are pulled. Nostalgia floods the grandstand, the intergoogle and the airwaves.

Can’t be written … can’t be bought. Think NASHCASH is gonna’ give up on the possibility that this could happen again? Think again.

Just my opinion, of course. I watch intently, one race at a time … focused on the drivers, team personnel, strategy and the dynamics of the cars at speed. I don’t care who’s above or below the cutoff line by X points, who makes the playoffs or who wins The Cup.

When they throw the checkers at Phoenix I start looking forward to February.
 
virtualbalboa said:
From an opinion or "objective" standpoint I would ask whether or not it matters who wins the Truck Series championship in the present day. What could it change for a guy like Ty Majeski? Nothing, best I can tell.
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You can start with Kurt Busch and Greg Biffle and work your way up. You'll figure it out. Tyler Reddick, Carson Hocevar etc.
 
StandOnIt said:
Probably should go even one more step further in this fairy tale to "The Final Four" (sound familiar?) Who in their right mind thinks having four cars in the final race, all three with worse records than the car that should win the championship outright is fair to crown a champion of a racing series?
It's the same principal as the jackpot of the other lower rounds? There should be no way that these three should win the race over the car with the best series points record right? B.S.
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That happened last year in the Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series when they went to a final 4 format. The driver that led all season had well over a 500-point lead going into the final race. He bent something in the suspension early in the race and was not competitive. He lost the championship because of a rut in the track despite absolutely dominating the season. The series has now changed it to where it's based on the final 4 races.
 
StandOnIt said:
You can start with Kurt Busch and Greg Biffle and work your way up. You'll figure it out. Tyler Reddick, Carson Hocevar etc.
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Kurt Busch won the title in an era with no playoffs. So did Greg Biffle. Might as well reference Mike Skinner as to what it means to be truck champion now.

Hocevar never won a truck championship. What would that have done for him that being a top tier national late model driver as a teenager didn't already largely propel him towards? He's in the Cup series and is keeping his ride in 2025. Seems like he's better off than Brett Moffitt.
 
MRM said:
That happened last year in the Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series when they went to a final 4 format. The driver that led all season had well over a 500-point lead going into the final race. He bent something in the suspension early in the race and was not competitive. He lost the championship because of a rut in the track despite absolutely dominating the season. The series has now changed it to where it's based on the final 4 races.
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I don't want to throw complete shade on stick and ball, but there is influence for this nonsense along with people who think little league participation trophies work for big boy racing.
 
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