Timed NASCAR Races

I'll be the first to admit my memory is kind of crappy lol. I never missed a race from the beginning of '94 until some point in the early 2000s. Apparently I need a refresher. Youtube is awesome
 
reck said:
Good old days you say? Back in the 90s they didn't even bother to interview race winners live. If the race ran long they would just tape the inteview and show it several hours later.

Cant even comment on how it was in the 70s but I bet you would be lucky to read it in the newspaper.

At least now they HAVE to interview the winner right away. If they want to save up time they should do what people here already said; do away with the pre shows and all that nonsense.
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Preface: Reck this isnt a rant against you, I like what you wrote, it stirred some memories.

That sounds right to me. In the 70s I could get newspaper articles and they usually posted a few lines from the winner. comments. And usually a comment from Petty, DW, or Bobby Allison depending on who was the most significant non winner.
Getting a race photo in the Newspaper was huge and they always made my monday mornings.

MRN was king during the day and most of us old farts still think highly of Barney Hall, Ned Jarrett, Dick Brooks and the other contributors. They interveiwed the winners, and the other front runners that could be found. Petty, DW and Bobby usually made themselves available. As an aside Petty was like no other imo, he always had time for the fans. I think that was really him with or without a tv or the press recording his manners and respect for the most common among us.

Hell, I guess I am getting old sappy, sentimental and maybe a little la la, but MRN understood they were there to cover the race, the race was the most preeminent matter, it was everything. They were server's not the actual product and they understood the power. It was beautiful in the most humble way. They spent little time jaw jacking over theirselves. They would have rather told you about Jabe Thomas's sense of humour then to try to indulge themselves at the expense of a fans patience.

Note: For follow up Dick Bergins Stock Car Racing magazine provided a lot of great inside details weeks or months after an event. I can still remember getting excited over their yearly coverage of the Oxford 250, and I never even been to Maine. They could make feel connected in spite of the distance.

I think most of the racing tv announcers and the tv networks have it backwards today. It isnt dog and tick, they pay a lot for the rights, but some things shouldn't be for sale. Just run the best races possible, at the best tracks without compromise or apology. If Nascar doesn't respect their product and some of the timeless qualities like 500 miles, and even the world 600, who will. Money is good just dont sell your soul getting some more. When you have a good product just do it right and own your own terms. Baseball would never give up their nine innings, and we should keep our 500 miles.

End of rambling rant, hopefully not a bore..
 
F1 can do it because their races are only 250 miles long. (roughly) It sounds like they want a 60/60 race.(60 laps or 60 minuets, whichever comes first.) This has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If Nascar decides to go with this idea they won't have to worry about fans of any kind ever again. This has the smell of Bruton Smith all over it.
 
Well said Greg. Could not agree more.

To expand upon of what you wrote, that's one of the biggest problems today's TV networks have. And that is trying to appeal to the casual watcher.

That thing you said about Baseball not giving up their tradional way of doing things sticks most of all. Most everyone think Baseball is just boring and that it needs to be cut to 7 innings. That just gets my blood boiling.

Last thing I want is for someone who doesn't understand the game to talk like he knows something.

I blame the media and the casual fans that just dont understand or have a full understanding of the sports we like. But alas, money is king and if you have it, you have the power to make things change to your advantage. In NASCAR's case I just hope Brian and his family dont try to over compesate and change this sport to something else.
 
reck said:
The human mind is fickle.

There were plenty of instances where a race would end without a live interview. There were more than a few, mainly the early years of Gordon's career where he won and no interviews were shown right away. You had to tune in to one of those ESPN shows at night.

Even Gordon got a few of those.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Rainbowarriors24?feature=watch

Check that guy's channel. It contains 98% of his race wins. There are a few races where they jus flat out cut it off because they ran over the time.
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Bookmarked. Thanks for the link.

Greg said:
Preface: Reck this isnt a rant against you, I like what you wrote, it stirred some memories.

That sounds right to me. In the 70s I could get newspaper articles and they usually posted a few lines from the winner. comments. And usually a comment from Petty, DW, or Bobby Allison depending on who was the most significant non winner.
Getting a race photo in the Newspaper was huge and they always made my monday mornings.

MRN was king during the day and most of us old farts still think highly of Barney Hall, Ned Jarrett, Dick Brooks and the other contributors. They interveiwed the winners, and the other front runners that could be found. Petty, DW and Bobby usually made themselves available. As an aside Petty was like no other imo, he always had time for the fans. I think that was really him with or without a tv or the press recording his manners and respect for the most common among us.

Hell, I guess I am getting old sappy, sentimental and maybe a little la la, but MRN understood they were there to cover the race, the race was the most preeminent matter, it was everything. They were server's not the actual product and they understood the power. It was beautiful in the most humble way. They spent little time jaw jacking over theirselves. They would have rather told you about Jabe Thomas's sense of humour then to try to indulge themselves at the expense of a fans patience.

Note: For follow up Dick Bergins Stock Car Racing magazine provided a lot of great inside details weeks or months after an event. I can still remember getting excited over their yearly coverage of the Oxford 250, and I never even been to Maine. They could make feel connected in spite of the distance.

I think most of the racing tv announcers and the tv networks have it backwards today. It isnt dog and tick, they pay a lot for the rights, but some things shouldn't be for sale. Just run the best races possible, at the best tracks without compromise or apology. If Nascar doesn't respect their product and some of the timeless qualities like 500 miles, and even the world 600, who will. Money is good just dont sell your soul getting some more. When you have a good product just do it right and own your own terms. Baseball would never give up their nine innings, and we should keep our 500 miles.

End of rambling rant, hopefully not a bore..
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Nailed it. The biggest thing that hasn't been touched on that you mentioned was bang for your buck. Personally, I enjoy devoting Sundays to racing and if I have time I'll take care of other ****. I don't need 500 mile races shortened to 288 due to debris, Steven Wallace's, etc.



Oh my God! What about rain?? Most timer races run in the rain as well. What about NASCAR? 'Screw it, it's Monday. FOX will be pissed if we ask for another timeslot'
 
All of this crap comes from the discussion topic regarding how to make our sport more agreeable to the supposedly short attention span of a younger audience. We don't need to do poop to the sport. We need to teach newer fans how to watch. We need to talk about manufacturer loyalty. Learn the damn sport. Turn on the scanner. Try to understand adjustments. Communication. Performance. Instead, if a few bark because a race developed in a less than shocking way, we have to change things. We don't need to change a damn thing, and we sure as hell don't need to time our races.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
This.

I think NASCAR's biggest problem (if they really even have one) is the numerous changes we've seen over the last several years. The rules, the points system - everything feels like it's in a constant state of flux. For once, I'd like to see NASCAR just pick a format and stick with it. I understand that they need to bring in new fans, but changing things just for the sake of change isn't the solution.

I really hope this latest gem of an idea was just something randomly blurted out during a brainstorm session amongst the powers that be and doesn't actually gain traction.
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YES!!... People wont be happy with something they aren't used to.... if they keep changing things they don't give the fans time to get used to any of the new rules and when they (the fans) are not completely satisfied.. as most people are with change... they'll keep complaining... they need to stop changing things every year.. I think one thing they seem not to be taking into consideration is that these drivers are smart.. we don't see a million passes because they know every time they make a pass there is potential for disaster or dnf... they take their time over 500 miles and get what their car will give them... that's not going to change... theyre professionals and aren't going to make stupid moves to gain position when they can wait a few more laps and pass cleaner.... so blame the car ..pfffff
 
Timed races...hmmm. Seems like a huge can of worms but I can understand why they'd explore the optons.
 
This is my opinion: I think that timed races in any form in Nascar is stupid and for the Nascar powers that be to even consider it is stupid, thank you, carry on.
 
Revman said:
All of this crap comes from the discussion topic regarding how to make our sport more agreeable to the supposedly short attention span of a younger audience. We don't need to do poop to the sport. We need to teach newer fans how to watch. We need to talk about manufacturer loyalty. Learn the damn sport. Turn on the scanner. Try to understand adjustments. Communication. Performance. Instead, if a few bark because a race developed in a less than shocking way, we have to change things. We don't need to change a damn thing, and we sure as hell don't need to time our races.
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Great post. I agree wholeheartedly. You took the words right out of my mouth with the bolded portion. I was just thinking about that yesterday as I was reading this thread.

I had a much longer and probably better post ready to go before this, but it suffices to say that the current strategy for NASCAR (and WWE, now that I think about it) is to trade one demographic (generally older, long-term fans) for another (younger, new fans). As much as it pains me to admit it, from an ice cold, strictly business point of view, it makes sense. That being said, let's picture a scenario in which all or even most of these changes and proposed changes we've heard about over the last few years are made and the established, true fans continue to tune out. Who's to say that the new recruits, if they even come, will continue to stick around as they get older? NASCAR will need both of those things to happen if they're going to succeed with this strategy, which sounds like a pretty big gamble to me.

Honestly, I think all NASCAR needs to do to succeed in the long term is to have some fresh, young (and optimally, somewhat diverse) new talent come up through the ranks, and from what I've seen, we already have plenty of that. As the older guys eventually start to retire, the younger ones will take their place and will likely bring some young followers along with them. Ultimately, I think NASCAR will be fine if they just leave well enough alone. That's a big "if" too, though.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Quit giving them ideas, Slice. I can already see the dollar signs in Mr. France's eyes.
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4 Hours of Daytona! LOL Something seems to be missing in that... ooooh right a 2 and another series....seriously though this just occurred to me.. they would have to change the name of a lot of big name races... which I don't see happening.. The Coke 600, Daytona 500, Southern 500, etc.... that's like the brand you know? I don't see them changing those names.. and you cant have a Daytona 500 that's 3 hours long and only end up having 178 laps... I think this whole idea is one of the stupidest Ive heard. I'd rather see half time...
 
Great post Greg.

People who aren't interested in cars will never be a race fan. NASCAR does need to consider their future with a changing car culture. I hope NASCAR knows their appeal is their big races; if I want to see a short race I'll go to my local dirt track.
 
Timed races makes sense to the medai. Put it in a nice package so they don't have to wonder and scramble or put themselves out to broadcast a race that goes long. they can sell programming and give the sponsor a fairly dependable time slot as to when their commercials it will be on air. Probably if the money is right $$$$ The France's will go for it. As far as the good ol days that raised a ruckus, I meant as early as last year, Speed had a show that was after every race that I would watch and they interviewed not only the winner, but at least 4 or 5 other drivers, and then usually Wind Tunnel came on after that, and you could catch the highlights of what happened with of most of the larger venues of motorsports...not to mention the "Eye Candy" part of the show...those were the good ol days.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Great post Greg.

People who aren't interested in cars will never be a race fan. NASCAR does need to consider their future with a changing car culture. I hope NASCAR knows their appeal is their big races; if I want to see a short race I'll go to my local dirt track.
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They never should've gotten rid of the Goody's Dash Series because that would thrive with today's car culture. They need to find a way to attract Honda and Subaru in to the sport. However, NASCAR's in a difficult spot where anything they do to bring in new fans will piss off the purists. IndyCar has the same problem as well - and aside from occasional gimmicks, they usually appease the purists and their product shrinks every year.

Timed races are dumb but if FOX isn't committed to NASCAR, it may have to be considered. I'd rather them turn around, tell FOX that if they won't air the entire race in its advertised distance, they'll tear up that friggin' contract before it takes affect and give NBC everything.
 
StandOnIt said:
Timed races makes sense to the medai. Put it in a nice package so they don't have to wonder and scramble or put themselves out to broadcast a race that goes long. they can sell programming and give the sponsor a fairly dependable time slot as to when their commercials it will be on air.
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For the first time ever, I agree with SOI. The same people pushing for this are the same people pushing for TV timeouts. Yeah, let's have a 10 minute caution in the middle of a race so the networks can go to commercial. Oh, now the race has to be cut short because of time constraints so it'll end in 10 minutes. :rolleyes:
 
They have plenty of *hitbox racing in England and Europe where they have even bent the rules to let Sabaru's race. ..hasn't helped, and the Honda's are backmarker cars. the Chevy Cruze is spanking them all. Travis Pastrana is driving a Sabaru this year..in their rally effort and Sabaru along with Hondas are also racing the IMSA series.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
For the first time ever, I agree with SOI. The same people pushing for this are the same people pushing for TV timeouts. Yeah, let's have a 10 minute caution in the middle of a race so the networks can go to commercial. Oh, now the race has to be cut short because of time constraints so it'll end in 10 minutes. :rolleyes:
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Good deal I hope it rains now. we need the water around here.
 
StandOnIt said:
They have plenty of *hitbox racing in England and Europe where they have even bent the rules to let Sabaru's race. ..hasn't helped, and the Honda's are backmarker cars. the Chevy Cruze is spanking them all. Travis Pastrana is driving a Sabaru this year..in their rally effort and Sabaru along with Hondas are also racing the IMSA series.
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Hold a 100,000 mile endurance race all around America and the Subaru would win hands down. ;)
 
you want to see all these young racing fans, go to an IMCA sports car race somewhere, lots of them in the rust belt areas and up East, they camp out all weekend and have a ball, been there done that back in the day.
 
So what if someone goes all Montoya on a jet dryer or knocks down part of the fence? If it gets red flagged for an hour and a half, they knock an hour and a half off of the race???
 
BobbyFord said:
So what if someone goes all Montoya on a jet dryer or knocks down part of the fence? If it gets red flagged for an hour and a half, they knock an hour and a half off of the race???
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Good point.

The whole racing then becomes a strategy game ala rain is coming, let's stay out hoping for the rain.

This is just a bad idea overall.
 
If they ran in the rain, it might be a different story, I might be OK with it, but now, a couple of drops and it is an hour rain delay. cars get wet and cold and they blow up, they have a whole lot of work to do before this Sirius radio rumor makes sense IMO.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Great post. I agree wholeheartedly. You took the words right out of my mouth with the bolded portion. I was just thinking about that yesterday as I was reading this thread.

I had a much longer and probably better post ready to go before this, but it suffices to say that the current strategy for NASCAR (and WWE, now that I think about it) is to trade one demographic (generally older, long-term fans) for another (younger, new fans). As much as it pains me to admit it, from an ice cold, strictly business point of view, it makes sense. That being said, let's picture a scenario in which all or even most of these changes and proposed changes we've heard about over the last few years are made and the established, true fans continue to tune out. Who's to say that the new recruits, if they even come, will continue to stick around as they get older? NASCAR will need both of those things to happen if they're going to succeed with this strategy, which sounds like a pretty big gamble to me.

Honestly, I think all NASCAR needs to do to succeed in the long term is to have some fresh, young (and optimally, somewhat diverse) new talent come up through the ranks, and from what I've seen, we already have plenty of that. As the older guys eventually start to retire, the younger ones will take their place and will likely bring some young followers along with them. Ultimately, I think NASCAR will be fine if they just leave well enough alone. That's a big "if" too, though.
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Drawing new fans to NASCAR demands one thing nobody has enough of---time. In order for new people to come, we have to take the time to explain things. Teach them them finer things of our sport. Parents need to spend time with kids at the track. It takes freakin' time, but in the long run, NASCAR will thrive. Nothing will move as quickly as sponsors like, however.

One thing that concerns me greatly is all of the changes and how that is seen by our younger audience. When we keep changing the rules, we lose authenticity to the younger set. They don't know what they are buying into, and it becomes impossible to explain it without contradicting ourselves. In my mind, this is the greatest sport on earth as it is. One of my greatest joys is to watch Kyle Busch gain 3 tenths with a line change on old tires in Fontana. We have to share that kind of thing....and then we get something back. For example, I have taught my son this sport, and as a teenager, Sunday races might be the only time I see him during the week. Anyway, when we were in Fontana, I was throwing a fit on the last lap because I thought Kyle was done. My son was like, "Dad they're slowing down, and Kyle is coming!" I'm like, "Bullsh-t! He's done, and my kid can't even figure that out!" At that point I slammed my headset down (I am a Kyle Busch fan after all). By this time they are heading into 3 and my kid is literally pounding on me to see what was happening. We all know how everything ended, but we were jumping around like little kids. It was awesome. I taught him to love this by spending time teaching him about it, and then he taught me. NOT HARD!
 
SpeedPagan said:
Well this is a stupid ass idea.
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Why is it stupid? For one this will give the drivers a more sense of urgency, I've been saying for awhile now that these races are far too long, major boring segments tend to push me away to watching something else or actually tuning in for the first 50 laps and the last 50. I like the idea, but I think they should experiment with it first, try it on a few races and see how it plays out. UI used to watch every lap of every race, long gone are those days. Change is coming, whether we like it or not and it is all driven by the almighty buck which the advertisers and networks control. I'd put money on this happening within 3 years.
 
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Mopardh9 said:
Why is it stupid? For one this will give the drivers a more sense of urgency, I've been saying for awhile now that these races are far too long, major boring segments tend to push me away to watching something else or actually tuning in for the first 50 laps and the last 50. I like the idea, but I think they should experiment with it first, try it on a few races and see how it plays out. UI used to watch every lap of every race, long gone are those days. Change is coming, whether we like it or not and it is all driven by the almighty buck which the advertisers and networks control. I'd put money on this happening within 3 years.
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Then reduce the amount of laps. Brian France is trying too hard to turn this into a stick and ball sport, and it's not. Honestly I'm more bored of the stick and ball sport than I am of stock car racing. I never miss a Truck Race or Sprint Cup race, but I don't really care if I miss a few NFL games. If you want to reduce the length of the race, reduce the laps, but don't put a shot clock on it.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
What I'm saying is, there's no guarantee that, if a NASCAR race goes beyond it's television window, FS1 will stick with it. In fact, based on what we've already seen from Fox Sports 1, there's no guarantee that Fox Sports 2 is an option. Even then, it's easy for you or me to say, if they move the race to FS2, I'll just flip the channel. This isn't like ESPN moving something to ESPN2. Millions of people don't get Fox Sports 2 and, for millions more, it's on an upper-tier cable package.
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I remember when some of us on here tried to use this argument against NBCSN, and you shot it down big time. Oh, that is right, good ole liberal NBC could do no wrong.
 
ToyYoda said:
This. The pre-race shows are garbage, IMO. Go on YouTube and check out an ESPN broadcast from 20 years ago. There was usually about 10-15 minutes between the time they took the air and the drop of the green flag. Nowadays, it's nearly an hour and a half. If anything, I'd rather see that time used for POST-race coverage.
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I use to love those days. Sunday NFL Countdown would end, and the Nascar broadcast would pick right up with the drivers in the car and "gentlemen start your engines" being said.
 
reck said:
Well said Greg. Could not agree more.

To expand upon of what you wrote, that's one of the biggest problems today's TV networks have. And that is trying to appeal to the casual watcher.

That thing you said about Baseball not giving up their tradional way of doing things sticks most of all. Most everyone think Baseball is just boring and that it needs to be cut to 7 innings. That just gets my blood boiling.

Last thing I want is for someone who doesn't understand the game to talk like he knows something.

I blame the media and the casual fans that just dont understand or have a full understanding of the sports we like. But alas, money is king and if you have it, you have the power to make things change to your advantage. In NASCAR's case I just hope Brian and his family dont try to over compesate and change this sport to something else.
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However, Baseball has given up on their tradional ways. Bud Selig has done plenty to "ruin" the game in the purist eyes. Sure they still have 9 innings, and 162 games, but what about the Wildcard, interleague play, extra wildcard, moving astros to American league...
 
Revman said:
All of this crap comes from the discussion topic regarding how to make our sport more agreeable to the supposedly short attention span of a younger audience. We don't need to do poop to the sport. We need to teach newer fans how to watch. We need to talk about manufacturer loyalty. Learn the damn sport. Turn on the scanner. Try to understand adjustments. Communication. Performance. Instead, if a few bark because a race developed in a less than shocking way, we have to change things. We don't need to change a damn thing, and we sure as hell don't need to time our races.
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This whole attention span argument is bullsh#t and just an excuse by Nascar and the Networks. You think people would stop watching the NFL if they added two extra quarters? Hell no, the viewership would probably go up. You want people to pay attention to your sport longer? Make the product better.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
I use to love those days. Sunday NFL Countdown would end, and the Nascar broadcast would pick right up with the drivers in the car and "gentlemen start your engines" being said.
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I watched the 1991 Pepsi 400 on YouTube a couple days ago. Time from on air to green flag? 10 minutes, 48 seconds.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
This whole attention span argument is bullsh#t and just an excuse by Nascar and the Networks. You think people would stop watching the NFL if they added two extra quarters? Hell no, the viewership would probably go up. You want people to pay attention to your sport longer? Make the product better.
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Yeah well in football they can get points every play.... they don't have to survive to the end of the game to win... or get points... no matter how much they change the cars they can never change the fact that the drivers need to be patient to make it 500 miles...
 
ToyYoda said:
You obviously didn't see the Colts-Chiefs game a couple of weeks ago ;)
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Well no I don't watch football at all.. but still, a player can get a winning touchdown in the first quarter and then get hit so hard he breaks his back in the third and the team can still win the game. Or something like that lol .. You know what I mean.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
Bud Selig has done plenty to "ruin" the game in the purist eyes. but what about the Wildcard, interleague play, extra wildcard, moving astros to American league...
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Cant argue with you there. Good points.
 
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