Tony on young drivers

Formerjackman

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Is this intended to suggest that being Bill Elliott’s son didn’t open doors for the kid?
It got him an interview with Rick Hendrick. It wouldn't have ended up amounting to anything if he hadn't delivered. On the other hand, William Byron and Alex Bowman ended up at the same place WITHOUT having a famous father, so who's to say Rick or Dale Jr. wouldn't have found him anyway?
 

aunty dive

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Anything is possible.

I would say it got him a little more than an interview. I would also say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with leveraging family, business and other connections to advance a racing career. Rather like The Harvard Law School in that respect.
 

StandOnIt

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I think we have been down this road recently about drivers who are moneyed and who are not. Most aren't but had help and sacrifice from family to get to a certain level. Tony didn't say anything about money, I guess some took that and ran with it. He was talking about life experiences, probably most, I'm guessing don't have a clue how to set up a car or care to learn. But on the other hand he came from a family that owned a small dirt track, grew up with dirt in his veins and his perspective about racing. They all aren't that way IMO. Not too many Tony's in the racing world. He is sounding more like A.J. Foyt every day.
 

clarkfn2284

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This is absolutely hilarious. Fans root for drivers they relate to with demographics? I guess all of Dawsonville, Georgia is composed of 20-something-year old males. Dale Jr was popular because a lot of NASCAR fans have facial hair and liked his beard. This theory explains why Michael Waltrip was never very popular...not too many NASCAR fans are 6'4" like Mikey and thus they couldn't relate to him.

Who is @Johali supposed to cheer on? Morgan Shepard?

What about the few high schoolers on this board? I guess they can only watch the K&N guys cuz they're all in high school as well.

Not everything in life is an absolute. Fans relate to who they support. Kyle Larson has many more fans in Ca and at dirt tracks because they watched him grow up, he is from there area, age, discipline of racing etc. Danica was relatable to girls and women. Do you follow Ryan Preece in the slightest? Why? You have a photo of an asphalt modified as you avatar. Just an assumption, but there is something in his career that attracted you to him. On top of that he has some success and that just bolsters your interest in him. That's the point. This isn't hard to understand. You can kick and scream and deny it all you want, but look around you. Every sport has become younger and more in tune with demographics because since the dawn of time people gravitate to like minded individuals.

Here is a perfect example. My Son is 8 years old. He has a dirt modified driver that is his favorite at all the local dirt tracks. You know why he picked him to win when he was 4 years old? Because his car was red, my Son's favorite color. The guy wins a lot and that only solidified his opinion of him. Now this guy is like 27 years old. So age isn't a factor, but he rides a dirt bike around the track, my Son love's dirt bikes. The driver is a San Francisco Giants fan, my son is as well. On top of all of these factors the guy treats my kid like family, he takes an interest in all that my son does when we see him in the pits. So yeah, demos make a difference. A demo isn't just age based. It's like minded people with similar back grounds and points of interest.

The point is that to invest into anyone or anything you have to relate. That is why you see younger drivers becoming the norm.
 

StandOnIt

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Not everything in life is an absolute. Fans relate to who they support. Kyle Larson has many more fans in Ca and at dirt tracks because they watched him grow up, he is from there area, age, discipline of racing etc. Danica was relatable to girls and women. Do you follow Ryan Preece in the slightest? Why? You have a photo of an asphalt modified as you avatar. Just an assumption, but there is something in his career that attracted you to him. On top of that he has some success and that just bolsters your interest in him. That's the point. This isn't hard to understand. You can kick and scream and deny it all you want, but look around you. Every sport has become younger and more in tune with demographics because since the dawn of time people gravitate to like minded individuals.

Here is a perfect example. My Son is 8 years old. He has a dirt modified driver that is his favorite at all the local dirt tracks. You know why he picked him to win when he was 4 years old? Because his car was red, my Son's favorite color. The guy wins a lot and that only solidified his opinion of him. Now this guy is like 27 years old. So age isn't a factor, but he rides a dirt bike around the track, my Son love's dirt bikes. The driver is a San Francisco Giants fan, my son is as well. On top of all of these factors the guy treats my kid like family, he takes an interest in all that my son does when we see him in the pits. So yeah, demos make a difference. A demo isn't just age based. It's like minded people with similar back grounds and points of interest.

The point is that to invest into anyone or anything you have to relate. That is why you see younger drivers becoming the norm.
That is your perspective, not saying it is the only one. People love winners. If Kyle Busch had to survive on popularity? Others like Elliott, Blaney, Nemechek, come from famous racing families. Some make it on pure ability, some make it from history, and some farm watermelons.
 

clarkfn2284

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It got him an interview with Rick Hendrick. It wouldn't have ended up amounting to anything if he hadn't delivered. On the other hand, William Byron and Alex Bowman ended up at the same place WITHOUT having a famous father, so who's to say Rick or Dale Jr. wouldn't have found him anyway?
It's not an absolute! There are always going to be people who have to work harder to get recognized or make it without assistance. It's not validation as to why Chase or anyone else is at the level that they are at. It has nothing to do with their talent! This tired idea that some of the fossils in NASCAR have that every driver needs to work on the car and come from a shoestring budget to be "deserving" of their ride is completely built on jealousy and a complete lack of awareness to how the freaking world works.

Chase has more than proved he deserves his spot. However, if anyone here thinks that Chase struggled the way that your normal week to week Late Model driver does that doesn't come from the background Chase did then you should delete your profile on here. Chase had money backing him, he had a built name already in place and he had leverage. With all of that comes a comfort level knowing that if he really wanted to give it a shot his Dad only need to place a phone call and he would have a door opened. This is no different than a ride buyer or a kid with a sponsor package.

That. Was. The. Entire. Point.
 

aunty dive

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If Kyle Busch had to survive on popularity? ... Some make it on pure ability, some make it from history, and some farm watermelons.
Category 1 for KDB.

Popularity is vastly over-rated but it does sell a lot of T-shirts and in extreme cases can cause drooling sycophants to shave car numbers into their back hair.
 

StandOnIt

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It's not an absolute! There are always going to be people who have to work harder to get recognized or make it without assistance. It's not validation as to why Chase or anyone else is at the level that they are at. It has nothing to do with their talent! This tired idea that some of the fossils in NASCAR have that every driver needs to work on the car and come from a shoestring budget to be "deserving" of their ride is completely built on jealousy and a complete lack of awareness to how the freaking world works.

Chase has more than proved he deserves his spot. However, if anyone here thinks that Chase struggled the way that your normal week to week Late Model driver does that doesn't come from the background Chase did then you should delete your profile on here. Chase had money backing him, he had a built name already in place and he had leverage. With all of that comes a comfort level knowing that if he really wanted to give it a shot his Dad only need to place a phone call and he would have a door opened. This is no different than a ride buyer or a kid with a sponsor package.

That. Was. The. Entire. Point.
I don't think I would call anybody fossils because they have that view because you happen to disagree with it. I've been around racing a long time and that talk has been going around before I got there. There has always been a crowd resentful about getting beat by more money or silver spoon drivers, or some other form of jealousy. To me it pretty much shows that emotions are blinding intelligence as to what racing is and always will be.
 

clarkfn2284

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That is your perspective, not saying it is the only one. People love winners. If Kyle Busch had to survive on popularity? Others like Elliott, Blaney, Nemechek, come from famous racing families. Some make it on pure ability, some make it from history, and some farm watermelons.
KB was popular prior to winning. He would have fans regardless. Obviously not as many and in order to be the star he has the wins have to come. His name was known on the West Coast long before he made is big. I knew of the Busch Bothers because we used to go to Legend Car races all the time. We never saw them race Legends, but we knew who they were.

That is the basis of what I have been saying. It's not absolute, but people buying rides is no different from the kid who comes from family history and has doors opened for him/her. Then you have those who make it on talent and those who make it on will and determination. The others are why these stories are so good.
 

StandOnIt

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Category 1 for KDB.

Popularity is vastly over-rated but it does sell a lot of T-shirts and in extreme cases can cause drooling sycophants to shave car numbers into their back hair.
I don't think popularity it is vastly overrated at all. Danica and Junior banked some pretty big checks for years and neither came close to winning a cup title. There are all kinds in the mix. Blindsided looking at wins only works for some, but is a long way of working for all. It's pretty obvious that KDB fans are mostly in that camp because he wins a lot of races. Many will disappear when he starts losing.
 

aunty dive

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I was being facetious but you knew that.

I like KDB because he is one helluva wheelman. That's it. I find him highly entertaining ... especially when he "loses". He hates that - heaven forbid.
 

clarkfn2284

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I don't think I would call anybody fossils because they have that view because you happen to disagree with it. I've been around racing a long time and that talk has been going around before I got there. There has always been a crowd resentful about getting beat by more money or silver spoon drivers, or some other form of jealousy. To me it pretty much shows that emotions are blinding intelligence as to what racing is and always will be.

I would. It's an antiquated way of thinking. It isn't hard to look around the landscape of the world and see a generational shift toward younger people. Where my frustration lies on these types of things is that I prescribe to a "get better" philosophy. You want to compete, then compete. Work your butt off to be better. The same people who sit in the pits/stands and cry about the money are the same people that tell generation after generation that they need to work harder if they want success. Funny how it's only convenient when it doesn't pertain to them.

I have a ton of respect for anyone that works on a car all week to go out and compete. The very same way that I have a ton of respect for the driver who shows up, hops in and drives. There is a talent in both.

My Son plays competitive sports and we see Parents who spend thousands of dollars on training for their 8 year old in an effort to give their child a head start. I cannot fault a Parent for trying to do that. Just like I can admire the Parent who makes their kid work for everything.
 

StandOnIt

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I would. It's an antiquated way of thinking. It isn't hard to look around the landscape of the world and see a generational shift toward younger people. Where my frustration lies on these types of things is that I prescribe to a "get better" philosophy. You want to compete, then compete. Work your butt off to be better. The same people who sit in the pits/stands and cry about the money are the same people that tell generation after generation that they need to work harder if they want success. Funny how it's only convenient when it doesn't pertain to them.

I have a ton of respect for anyone that works on a car all week to go out and compete. The very same way that I have a ton of respect for the driver who shows up, hops in and drives. There is a talent in both.

My Son plays competitive sports and we see Parents who spend thousands of dollars on training for their 8 year old in an effort to give their child a head start. I cannot fault a Parent for trying to do that. Just like I can admire the Parent who makes their kid work for everything.
no it isn't antiquated thinking. It has been around in racing since they squared off on the track from fans and it will be that way for as long as they race cars. I'll tell ya what it is. It's called reality. And I don't see this generational shift B.S. either. Most drivers have always been from 18-35. In fact because of better safety, I would say there are more older drivers than ever continuing to race. Pearson until a few years ago was racing antique dirt cars, Red Farmer in his 80's Stirlin Marlin is back on he track, Ken Schrader, and Kenny Wallace, Stewart, on and on. Last year the older drivers were complaining about the youngsters getting all of the publicity while all three of them had won the lion's share of the races. Looks to me that the 'trend" is the opposite as the older drivers can race longer and continue to beat the younger field.
 

jaqua19

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Dude you literally described nascars problem. The talent level just simply isn’t what it was and it lacks a dominant star. You had some damn big dogs back in the late 90s early 2000s
Idk if I would say it's big problem. I just think it's circumstance. It just so happens that the rookies between Tony Stewart - Denny Hamlin were the best crop of drivers overall this sport has seen. No disrespect to Rusty, DJ, Bill Elliot, Mark Martin, the Labontes, Ricky Rudd... But Kenseth, Harvick, Kurt Busch, Edwards, Hamlin, Jr overall is just better.

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Efisher131

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In 2005 the cup field included:
Jeff Gordon
Dale Earnhardt Jr
Jimmie Johnson
Kyle Busch
Kurt Busch
Matt Kenseth
Tony Stewart
Mark Martin
Bobby Labonte
Terry Labonte
Greg Biffle
Rusty Wallace
Sterling Marlin
Ricky Rudd
Carl Edwards
Jeff Burton
Dale Jarrett
Kevin Harvick
Denny Hamlin (end of the year)
Kasey Kahne
Ryan Newman
Martin Truex Jr (part time)
Robby Gordon
Elliott Sadler
Jeremy Mayfield
Joe Nemechek
Brian Vickers
Kyle Petty
Michael Waltrip
Ken Schrader

Compare that to today's top 28-30 and there you will see the problem
 
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