VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
Well, dude...it wasn't just his....it looked to be about every single opinion that differed from yours. Most notably the one(s) concerning the American vs. foreign car makers in NASCAR.
Top Ten things wrong with NASCAR.
- Thread starter 97forever
- Start date
Well, dude...it wasn't just his....it looked to be about every single opinion that differed from yours. Most notably the one(s) concerning the American vs. foreign car makers in NASCAR.
97forever
Team Owner
Nope. I misunderstood the intent, sometimes we all do that, especially on this medium.
Im not really the smartass most think. I'm giving MY views. Views that in MY opinion are valid. Views that I feel I can debate in favor of.
But dont tell me to 'get used to it' or 'switch to golf' or 'why do you bother' without expecting me to give the same thing back in turn. I stay on topic when everyone else does.
Anyhow, here's one of those beer banging smilie things.
kelloggs5TLfan
Team Owner
Nope. I misunderstood the intent, sometimes we all do that, especially on this medium.
Im not really the smartass most think. I'm giving MY views. Views that in MY opinion are valid. Views that I feel I can debate in favor of.
But dont tell me to 'get used to it' or 'switch to golf' or 'why do you bother' without expecting me to give the same thing back in turn. I stay on topic when everyone else does.
Anyhow, here's one of those beer banging smilie things.
I can appreciate anyone’s individual views and opinions. What gets me is when someone says everyone has the right to their opinion and views then puts others down for offering the same. We have one on this board that does that on a regular basis. You can't take all the credit for being the only smart butt on here. That would not be fair to tkj24. LOL
97forever
Team Owner
I can appreciate anyone’s individual views and opinions. What gets me is when someone says everyone has the right to their opinion and views then puts others down for offering the same. We have one on this board that does that on a regular basis. You can't take all the credit for being the only smart butt on here. That would not be fair to tkj24. LOL
I just BELIEVE in my opinions and views and try to use logic when presenting them.
Yours are as valid to you--of course they are. But try to convince me, try to point out what you see, try to make me consider alternatives. Thats sure what Im trying to do to you.
Im no troll that popped in out of the blue..didnt we arrive here on this board about the same time? Ive always been a semi-'smartass',lol.
And who is tkj24?
kelloggs5TLfan
Team Owner
I just BELIEVE in my opinions and views and try to use logic when presenting them.
Yours are as valid to you--of course they are. But try to convince me, try to point out what you see, try to make me consider alternatives. Thats sure what Im trying to do to you.
Im no troll that popped in out of the blue..didnt we arrive here on this board about the same time? Ive always been a semi-'smartass',lol.
And who is tkj24?
Yes, I remember you. I enjoy all different views. I've just been keeping mine to myself the last couple of months. LOL
tkj24, is my friend and I tease her all the time on here. LOL
97forever
Team Owner
Yep, I remember you too. Just cant place tkj24. Apparently I never ticked her off.
(And I sure hate these new-fangled smilies. Even though I guess they arent 'new' anymore.)
VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
While I appreciiate that, what I don't appreciate is tellsing oythers that their opinions are invalid, which is the way you come across.
Umm, I didn't... unless of course you said that in general to anyone.
be9ak7ts16
Johali Lives
Well 97, I totally agree with everything you said and I'm also getting less and less interested in my beinga lifelong fan. I have to add one more to your list.
We will never see another independant driver come up through the ranks and be a Champion. Think about the thrill of watching Bill Elliott and Alan Kulwicki come out of a small shop and becoming a Winston Cup champ. Oh Yeah, I still call it the Winston Cup.........
We will never see another independant driver come up through the ranks and be a Champion. Think about the thrill of watching Bill Elliott and Alan Kulwicki come out of a small shop and becoming a Winston Cup champ. Oh Yeah, I still call it the Winston Cup.........
97forever
Team Owner
Yeah, it was in general, not you specifically.
97forever
Team Owner
Hi numbers...good to see you. Tim Steele was the man!
And yeah,that's whats missing for me. That elusive thrill that used to be there. I used to LOVE the races and race day. Couldn't wait for them.
Now though? Now if I even remember a race is on, I'm ahead of the game.
We can all argue and debate till the cows come home, but the excitement is just simply not there like it once was. And I miss it a lot.
The mainstreaming of the sport and the TV-catering, while good in the short term, has killed the very soul of the sport. What we have now is almost(yeah, IMO) a mockery of what once was.
P
PettyBlue
Guest
Don't blame NASCAR for the demise of the US auto industry. The Japanese built a better car for the needs of the American market while Detroit sat on its hands. One major factor in NASCAR's popularity with fans is that people can much more easily relate to seeing the same brand of car that they drive on the track rather than a purpose built race car. NASCAR has always been about racing what's on the dealer's showroom floors, so having Toyota compete is only in keeping with that tradition. As for the COT, NASCAR in recent years had gotten away from having its race cars look like what people drive on the street; in my view the COT much more resembles a modern street car than what was run previously.
be9ak7ts16
Johali Lives
The Blandness is whats killing my interest. I can't imagine any of the 60's 70's and 80's drivers being so politically correct. What bnrought this sport to the forefront............. A little old last lap fight at Daytona........ Could you imagine what BS would occur in todays NASCAR if that happenned.. Pandemonium in the Hauler...............Good to see ya back yet again 97...........
be9ak7ts16
Johali Lives
That is such a load of crap.......... I've stayed by American cars through it all. I've had 1 new Merc(still got it), 1 Ford Minivan(great vehicle but it's a minivan) 1 Merc Moutaineer (drove it 10 years with no problems) 1 new Frod PU (drove it 13 years with no problems, and a new Dodge Ram (almost 8 years) great truck............
F
foehammer111
Guest
Incorrect, sir.
From a "competition standpoint" the racing has never been better. The races are closer, and the competition tighter then ever before. This can be proven by reading the thread about race stats from 2008.
You're free to like or dislike where the sport is at, but ultimately from a stats point of view, the races are closer then ever.
kelloggs5TLfan
Team Owner
Yep, I remember you too. Just cant place tkj24. Apparently I never ticked her off.
(And I sure hate these new-fangled smilies. Even though I guess they arent 'new' anymore.)
Welcome Back.
be9ak7ts16
Johali Lives
97forever
Team Owner
97forever
Team Owner
VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
Speaking of beer, and not even close to topic, i had a Lagunitas Rich Copper Ale, out of Petaluma, CA. Realy, really good beer..some of the best I've had.
97forever
Team Owner
Ive never tried it. I normally rarely drink at all really, but when I do its either Sol or Corona.
I do know around Birmingham they have a few of those micro-breweries that make good ale, so they say.
BTW, Numbers, what IS a yooper?
Upper Pennisula of Michigan. U. P. equals Yooper.
Them Yoopers don't get out much in the winter.
97forever
Team Owner
Upper Pennisula of Michigan. U. P. equals Yooper.
Them Yoopers don't get out much in the winter.
Ok, thanks dude.
Spike
Team Owner
Evansville, IN has a great micro brew/pizza shop downtown, a few blocks from Fast Eddys/Casino Aztar.
97forever
Team Owner
I used to live close to Evansville way back. Probably before it was there though.
BTW, Spike: "Con-Air"...THAT was an airplane movie for ya!
Benevolent One
Team Owner
I'd like to contribute to this post, but I don't think I really can since I haven't watched more than a few laps in the last few years. It just doesn't seem much like the sport I was a huge fan of.
97forever
Team Owner
Oh! And by the way, there is nothing wrong with the racing. I have only been following racing since the 60's so I am a Newb but I love it more today than ever.
But, I just love racing.
Well is the fact your man is leading the points adding greatly to that enjoyment?
I love racing too, hell, I grew up across the hill from Hueytown Al. back in the real Alabama Gang days. I crawled as a kid all over BIR way back when. But I simply see what we have today as compared to back then kind of like I see the Andy Griffith shows when they replaced Barney with Warren...if you get the reference. It's roughly the same thing, just something is missing.
I guess it all just kind of depends on what our expectations are, really.
Well is the fact your man is leading the points adding greatly to that enjoyment?
I love racing too, hell, I grew up across the hill from Hueytown Al. back in the real Alabama Gang days. I crawled as a kid all over BIR way back when. But I simply see what we have today as compared to back then kind of like I see the Andy Griffith shows when they replaced Barney with Warren...if you get the reference. It's roughly the same thing, just something is missing.
I guess it all just kind of depends on what our expectations are, really.
No! I really just love racing. I really do not have a favorite driver. I just like some of them a little less.
My allegiance to Tony really has nothing to do with NASCAR.
97forever
Team Owner
No! I really just love racing. I really do not have a favorite driver. I just like some of them a little less.
My allegiance to Tony really has nothing to do with NASCAR.
Fair enough, friend.
kelloggs5TLfan
Team Owner
No! I really just love racing. I really do not have a favorite driver. I just like some of them a little less.
My allegiance to Tony really has nothing to do with NASCAR.
That's really weird. The reason I can't stand him has nothing to do with him as a driver. LOL
97forever
Team Owner
I'm torn on Tony. At times I've liked him, at other times I couldn't stand him. Actually, he was an exception to my 'bland' driver reference I made earlier. Unfortunately though, he's so obnoxious I would almost prefer him 'bland'.
S
speedwayphoto
Guest
well, at the risk of being 'humbled"..... I'll take a stab at this, again.....lol.
I think the number one problem with NASCAR is NASCAR...... They have over legislated the sport. They mandate bodies, spoiler heights, tire pressures, gears, shocks..... is there ANYTHING that NASCAR doesn't have a rule for. Bring back the grey areas.
Bring back short tracks. I know that the sport "has outgrown them"..... I think its bull. Why race in front of 45-60,000 in people in a town that has little to no coverage, and instead run in front of same number of peeps or more here in the seep south........ heck for that matter, lets have a race at Eldora....... can you imagine the "All Star" there????
Quit screwin with stuff...... the pit crew challenge rocked...... the new format doesn't work. The Chase.... not a fan. The championship, to me, meant more when it was a trophy for a full season, not a "best 10 races..." and what about the guys in 13th on back...... I mean this year as close as the points are back there, a guy could move up or down a ton of spots in the last half of season.
While some some say the competition is better now than ever, and some say it sucks...... I think both are right. from a stat point, it is. gone are the days of single digit cars on the lead lap...... but, now it is a case of 22 cars following each other, point racing to the end. The difference is we CARED what was goin on in 18th place...... we wondered who was gonna pay back who......
Another thing ( and I will prolly get slammed for this.....) is the fans. Back in the day ya picked a driver, and stood by thru thick and thin...... If you liked Cale, you NEVER cheered for DW...... If you liked Petty, you hated the Woods and Pearson........ and you SUPPORTED your driver by BUYING the products that helped put that car on the track. Now, while there are still many that buy NASCAR sponsors first, those numbers are dwindling... and too many say my favorite drivers are.............. Alot of the "Old Timers" have felt pushed out of the sport..... and alot of the "New Fans" have now gone on to the "next big thing"...... NASCAR needs to lure back the old fans, and build new fans, not just corp. latchkeys and flavor of the month looky loo's.
and of course, the drivers. Now don't get me wrong, Lagona, and the rest prolly will ONE day be great stars...... but for my money, I would rather see these guys grow and mature on the local levels, and lower levels. NASCAR's top series is not about an 18 yo makin a name for himself through some top team ride because he knows someone or is related to someone........ Give the Busch series ( whatever the heck they call it now) back to the up and comers.... limit the Cuppers..... build your fans, build your rivalries, build your fan base THERE.... and the fans will follow those drivers when they move up.
I guess I'm just old and in the way, and the sport has left me..... but thats the way I see it. Will I be there next week watchin??? You bet...... Do I still get a thrill outta of? Dang skippy, just maybe not as much. But ya know what, I can get my kicks at the local dirt track as well....... The thing is, we have NASCAR all over TV, Internet, Books, mags, so as a race fan, this is one of the best times to be a fan!!!!!!!!
I think the number one problem with NASCAR is NASCAR...... They have over legislated the sport. They mandate bodies, spoiler heights, tire pressures, gears, shocks..... is there ANYTHING that NASCAR doesn't have a rule for. Bring back the grey areas.
Bring back short tracks. I know that the sport "has outgrown them"..... I think its bull. Why race in front of 45-60,000 in people in a town that has little to no coverage, and instead run in front of same number of peeps or more here in the seep south........ heck for that matter, lets have a race at Eldora....... can you imagine the "All Star" there????
Quit screwin with stuff...... the pit crew challenge rocked...... the new format doesn't work. The Chase.... not a fan. The championship, to me, meant more when it was a trophy for a full season, not a "best 10 races..." and what about the guys in 13th on back...... I mean this year as close as the points are back there, a guy could move up or down a ton of spots in the last half of season.
While some some say the competition is better now than ever, and some say it sucks...... I think both are right. from a stat point, it is. gone are the days of single digit cars on the lead lap...... but, now it is a case of 22 cars following each other, point racing to the end. The difference is we CARED what was goin on in 18th place...... we wondered who was gonna pay back who......
Another thing ( and I will prolly get slammed for this.....) is the fans. Back in the day ya picked a driver, and stood by thru thick and thin...... If you liked Cale, you NEVER cheered for DW...... If you liked Petty, you hated the Woods and Pearson........ and you SUPPORTED your driver by BUYING the products that helped put that car on the track. Now, while there are still many that buy NASCAR sponsors first, those numbers are dwindling... and too many say my favorite drivers are.............. Alot of the "Old Timers" have felt pushed out of the sport..... and alot of the "New Fans" have now gone on to the "next big thing"...... NASCAR needs to lure back the old fans, and build new fans, not just corp. latchkeys and flavor of the month looky loo's.
and of course, the drivers. Now don't get me wrong, Lagona, and the rest prolly will ONE day be great stars...... but for my money, I would rather see these guys grow and mature on the local levels, and lower levels. NASCAR's top series is not about an 18 yo makin a name for himself through some top team ride because he knows someone or is related to someone........ Give the Busch series ( whatever the heck they call it now) back to the up and comers.... limit the Cuppers..... build your fans, build your rivalries, build your fan base THERE.... and the fans will follow those drivers when they move up.
I guess I'm just old and in the way, and the sport has left me..... but thats the way I see it. Will I be there next week watchin??? You bet...... Do I still get a thrill outta of? Dang skippy, just maybe not as much. But ya know what, I can get my kicks at the local dirt track as well....... The thing is, we have NASCAR all over TV, Internet, Books, mags, so as a race fan, this is one of the best times to be a fan!!!!!!!!
be9ak7ts16
Johali Lives
Tony wouldn't be so bad if he didn't believe he is the re-incarnation of A.J. Foyt
HEY Smoke14...........Us Yoopers get out alot in the winter, snowmobiling, ice fishing, skiing.getting frostbite......... fun stuff.
Whizzer
Gig'em
Yea, yea, yea! And I suppose you walked six miles each way to school, barefoot and uphill both ways, PLUS had to carry home a pail of water from the town well. (YAWN) Heard it all before 97Forever. Remember, October 15th!! Whose birthday is it??? Putz!!!
97forever
Team Owner
Yea, yea, yea! And I suppose you walked six miles each way to school, barefoot and uphill both ways, PLUS had to carry home a pail of water from the town well. (YAWN) Heard it all before 97Forever. Remember, October 15th!! Whose birthday is it??? Putz!!!
One Mr. Red Farmer, who this october will be exactly half your age, Whizz old buddy.
Good to see you, btw.
8
83WynnsOlds
Guest
S
SST55
Guest
I don't think I've missed more than a few laps in the last few years. I tape or now DVR all the races if I have other commitments. I no longer plan a weekend around races. I even DVR races that I'm watching because more and more I find them boring and fall asleep. I agree with you Ben 1, it's not the same.
Common templates, cookie cutter tracks and dynoing engines to make sure they all have somewhat equal hp seem to have taken the excitement out of racing. Then there's David v Goliath, just how many cup cars does Hendrick support through "alliances" anyway? If you're supplying a rolling chassis, engines and in some cases the body that's not a Stewart-Haas or another teams car, that's a Hendrick car.
I think I can foresee in the not too distant future 4 maybe 5 real owners, Roush will have and supply all the Ford camp, Gibbs the Toys, Hendrick and to a lesser extent Childress the Chevys, Penske the Dodges.
97forever
Team Owner
Oh I would be impeached, friend, but thanks.
BTW, Lake Speed in your avatar. I remember that Olds real well. I was always a fan of Lake(about the only racer in the big leagues from Jakson, MS.) I was hyped when he got the chance to drive for Yates briefly years ago.
97forever
Team Owner
I don't think I've missed more than a few laps in the last few years. I tape or now DVR all the races if I have other commitments. I no longer plan a weekend around races. I even DVR races that I'm watching because more and more I find them boring and fall asleep. I agree with you Ben 1, it's not the same.
Common templates, cookie cutter tracks and dynoing engines to make sure they all have somewhat equal hp seem to have taken the excitement out of racing. Then there's David v Goliath, just how many cup cars does Hendrick support through "alliances" anyway? If you're supplying a rolling chassis, engines and in some cases the body that's not a Stewart-Haas or another teams car, that's a Hendrick car.
I think I can foresee in the not too distant future 4 maybe 5 real owners, Roush will have and supply all the Ford camp, Gibbs the Toys, Hendrick and to a lesser extent Childress the Chevys, Penske the Dodges.
Yeah, your last paragraph is going to be a reality.
As a Ford fan mainly, and admittedly a big Roush fan for years, I finally begin to see that the above mentioned Owners are really just putting the monopoly squeeze on the smaller teams. Roush has single handedly crushed any other Ford teams. And HMS is well on its way to doing the same for Chevy..in fact, I dont see Childress as being much more than a minor Chevy partner in the future. Sort of like Yates plays second fiddle to Jack now.
And yep. Penske is really all Dodge has other than a few flashes out of Kahne and that group. And Toyota? They are pretty much just one big factory team anyhow, with Gibbs getting a bigger slice of that pie than the other Toy-teams.
S
SST55
Guest
Let me add, they'll be a spec chassis only availible through the Official Chassis Supplier for Na$car, along with spec engines, only availible through the Official Engine Supplier for Na$car, the Official Body Supplier, catch my drift?
All these Official Suppliers will pay a bounty to Na$car for these rights. Same as Sprint, Goodyear, Sunoco etc do now.
I'm gonna go and get my vasectomy reversed then talk to my wife about becoming the Official Supplier of Drivers
All these Official Suppliers will pay a bounty to Na$car for these rights. Same as Sprint, Goodyear, Sunoco etc do now.
I'm gonna go and get my vasectomy reversed then talk to my wife about becoming the Official Supplier of Drivers