Uh, NASCAR: We Don't Have All Dang Day

FLRacingFan said:
"California is our biggest fan base" is still one of the most bizarre claims that I've heard out of NASCAR.

Besides TV generally doing better the late afternoon/evening portion of the day I do have to wonder how starting your event in the midst of other events affects viewership. Are people going to want, or even remember to look, to turn away from the second half of an important basketball game? Or a big-name golfer getting to the back nine? I say this generally, not specific to Fontana (which would've started around 10 AM), but letting casuals get hooked on and invested in other events seems like it would negate any benefit you'd get just by starting when more people usually watch TV.
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I don't understand the late starts during the NASCAR Playoffs. By the time those races start, the Jags games are deep in the second quarter or starting the second half.
 
FLRacingFan said:
"California is our biggest fan base" is still one of the most bizarre claims that I've heard out of NASCAR.

Besides TV generally doing better the late afternoon/evening portion of the day I do have to wonder how starting your event in the midst of other events affects viewership. Are people going to want, or even remember to look, to turn away from the second half of an important basketball game? Or a big-name golfer getting to the back nine? I say this generally, not specific to Fontana (which would've started around 10 AM), but letting casuals get hooked on and invested in other events seems like it would negate any benefit you'd get just by starting when more people usually watch TV.
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I've saying the exact same thing for years. You need to get people before they find something else to watch or do. In football season, I'd be taking the green flag at 12:45 to beat the early football games to the punch. I find it funny that so many thing that were done when this sport was actually growing and expanding every year are now considered passé. While it's true that you can't prove that things wouldn't be worse if we hadn't made all the post 2000 changes, it's hard to make the case that many/any of them have worked either.
 
Formerjackman said:
I've saying the exact same thing for years. You need to get people before they find something else to watch or do. In football season, I'd be taking the green flag at 12:45 to beat the early football games to the punch. I find it funny that so many thing that were done when this sport was actually growing and expanding every year are now considered passé. While it's true that you can't prove that things wouldn't be worse if we hadn't made all the post 2000 changes, it's hard to make the case that many/any of them have worked either.
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I’m watching English league soccer, or a tape delayed f1 race, waiting for the Vikings, twins, or race to start. It would be awesome if I could be watching a race in the 9 to 1 time frame instead.
 
2 Sweet said:
I love it when Dale Jr. speaks his mind. Clearly he isn't afraid to tell it like it is. If anyone has the stroke to make changes happen, it's him. I like his ideas for NASCAR and I think he knows how to make improvements.
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He's like his father in that respect, just wish he would of spoke up a little more when he was driving.
 
gnomesayin said:
I'll grant you that in some ways. Comparing late start races to earlier ones as you suggested would take serious time to do in any productive way. You can't sensibly compare Atlanta on the weekend it airs to Sonoma, or Bristol to Phoenix and so on without accounting for many other variables.

It would take a lot more to convince me that the real experienced television people are wrong here. These aren't armchair experts making these decisions. There is a reason they schedule the Homestead finale as a later afternoon start, for instance. That has been a rare success for them in viewership terms.
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Is it possible that the "real experienced television people" only care about their revenue under the current TV contract? Is it possible they know either the next contract they sign will be for considerably less $ or they might not even be signing on at all? My take, and I have seen this at the corporate level many times, is that they could care less about the root cause of the ratings and attendance decline but are only looking for the short term fix and its all mighty dollar. NASCAR is different than a lot of other sports in that to really build/increase a fan base a new fan is more likely to come from attending a race than watching one on TV. You make it more difficult for a person to attend a race you make it more difficult for that person to become a fan.
 
DIDIT said:
Is it possible that the "real experienced television people" only care about their revenue under the current TV contract? Is it possible they know either the next contract they sign will be for considerably less $ or they might not even be signing on at all? My take, and I have seen this at the corporate level many times, is that they could care less about the root cause of the ratings and attendance decline but are only looking for the short term fix and its all mighty dollar. NASCAR is different than a lot of other sports in that to really build/increase a fan base a new fan is more likely to come from attending a race than watching one on TV. You make it more difficult for a person to attend a race you make it more difficult for that person to become a fan.
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I think the average fan is only able to attend one or two races a year, and is willing to accept almost any starting time on those couple of Sundays.
 
DIDIT said:
Is it possible that the "real experienced television people" only care about their revenue under the current TV contract?
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Not just possible. Extremely likely. That doesn't mean their interests with maximizing television viewership and revenue are at odds with NASCAR's core interests.

DIDIT said:
NASCAR is different than a lot of other sports in that to really build/increase a fan base a new fan is more likely to come from attending a race than watching one on TV. You make it more difficult for a person to attend a race you make it more difficult for that person to become a fan.
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I don't understand the connection to your final point about the importance of live attendance, if you agree with Dale Jr.'s premise. How does a 10:00 AM start time in California make it easier to attend a race for Californians, Arizonans, etc. than a 1:00 PM start?
 
I don't get the fuss. I like NASCAR, I will watch it whenever it is televised. If it comes on at 10 am I'm going to watch it, same for when they are in my time zone and its on at 1230 pm. If I am not home I DVR it. If I miss that I catch the re air that night. There is a lot of fussing over stupid **** by people in NASCAR. I just provided three different ways to watch the damn thing. If you still want to gripe about it then there is no helping you. When sporting events are on you either make time to watch them or you DVR them or look for a re air. It is that simple. Just because **** doesn't jive with people's days they sit and complain. Meanwhile they have control the whole time.
 
I guess I'm just wired differently though. We just drove 6 hours to Fontana last weekend after a Hockey and Baseball game for my son, through snow and then went to the race and drove back 6 hours that night and went to school and work the next day. I even caught the final 68 laps on the re air when we got home. It's not about being a huge fan, it's about wanting to do something and doing it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
As if local short tracks didn't have enough problems.
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It's a nonstarter because Friday night is the lowest night of the week for TV viewership. If NASCAR and the networks decide to try a mid-week race, it will be another night. Saturday night races have been proven to attract smaller audiences than Sunday afternoons.

In a parallel universe in which those were desirable timeslots, I don't believe it would be as bad for short tracks in the age of DVRs and smaller NASCAR viewership as it would have been 20 years ago. Most short track fans I know wouldn't even consider staying home in favor of a NASCAR race.
 
clarkfn2284 said:
I don't get the fuss. I like NASCAR, I will watch it whenever it is televised. If it comes on at 10 am I'm going to watch it, same for when they are in my time zone and its on at 1230 pm. If I am not home I DVR it. If I miss that I catch the re air that night. There is a lot of fussing over stupid sh!t by people in NASCAR. I just provided three different ways to watch the damn thing. If you still want to gripe about it then there is no helping you. When sporting events are on you either make time to watch them or you DVR them or look for a re air. It is that simple. Just because sh!t doesn't jive with people's days they sit and complain. Meanwhile they have control the whole time.
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The problem is, you can't ONLY market your sport to the hardcore fans (like myself) that will do whatever it takes to watch a race. There are a LOT of people out there that like racing in a general way, and if they happen to sit down and flip on the dial and NASCAR is on, they will watch it. If they have to search for it, jump through hoops for it, or they get distracted by something else first, they just don't watch.
 
From this Californian's point of view, I would like the races to start at 10:00 AM. If they start later, we usually find ourselves doing something else before the race starts. You have to finish what you start, or it won't get done. (home projects, etc.) Other types of entertainment, if you are watching, or attending, you don't want to leave before it finishes.
 
People just need to learn how to multitask I guess. Setup an extra TV, laptop, iPad, etc.... and stream that extra sporting event. I guess I am very lucky to have options. We watch a lot of sports in my house. If we want to watch something and it conflicts with another event, we turn them both on or how ever many it takes to watch what's available. My man-cave turns into a mini sports bar on weekends and sometimes weeknights.

If I were limited to only one source for viewing sports and it were a fall Sunday afternoon with both the NASCAR race and the Steelers vs. Opponent being televised. Sorry NASCAR, while I love you, I'll catch up with you on the DVR later. The NFL rulz. Likewise in a few weeks, come the NHL post season. Penguins vs. NASCAR. Sorry NASCAR, I'll catch up with you later on the DVR. And I'm a huge NASCAR fan.

Is everyone really, I mean really, worried that NASCR's not going to be around for much longer due to its ratings? It's one of the most viewed sports on television. There's a market for it. It's going to be on for a long, long time. It's still huge by comparison to what it once was and there was never such a concern of the ratings by the fans. It is kinda funny reading all the remarks about the ratings. We all seem to have the answer yet none of us seem to agree. Me, I'll leave it up to the networks and add executives to worry about. I've got the internet and have little problem locating where the race will be on from week to week. Whether it's on FOX, NBC or even the Oprah Channel someday, I'll still be watching and chances are you will be too.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I think the average fan is only able to attend one or two races a year, and is willing to accept almost any starting time on those couple of Sundays.
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Charlie, my point is trying to bring in new fans not the fans who are already attending. I ask my neighbors who are not fans if they want to go to the race with us. But if I tell them we might not get back until after midnight Sunday I think there is more of a chance they will decline. We really need to be bringing in new fans not just thinking the average fan will be OK. I can tell you from personal experience I have decided to not go to a number of races because of how late they would get over. And, I am even retired and don't need to go to work the next day.
 
gnomesayin said:
I don't understand the connection to your final point about the importance of live attendance, if you agree with Dale Jr.'s premise. How does a 10:00 AM start time in California make it easier to attend a race for Californians, Arizonans, etc. than a 1:00 PM start?
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It is just not the start time of the California race, it is the races in the east where the start times have been moved from 12 - 1 on Sunday afternoon to 2:30 - 3:30. Actually I get the West coast start times they were starting early enough based on local time at the track. Just do the same thing in the east.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
People just need to learn how to multitask I guess. Setup an extra TV, laptop, iPad, etc.... and stream that extra sporting event. I guess I am very lucky to have options. We watch a lot of sports in my house. If we want to watch something and it conflicts with another event, we turn them both on or how ever many it takes to watch what's available. My man-cave turns into a mini sports bar on weekends and sometimes weeknights.

If I were limited to only one source for viewing sports and it were a fall Sunday afternoon with both the NASCAR race and the Steelers vs. Opponent being televised. Sorry NASCAR, while I love you, I'll catch up with you on the DVR later. The NFL rulz. Likewise in a few weeks, come the NHL post season. Penguins vs. NASCAR. Sorry NASCAR, I'll catch up with you later on the DVR. And I'm a huge NASCAR fan.

Is everyone really, I mean really, worried that NASCR's not going to be around for much longer due to its ratings? It's one of the most viewed sports on television. There's a market for it. It's going to be on for a long, long time. It's still huge by comparison to what it once was and there was never such a concern of the ratings by the fans. It is kinda funny reading all the remarks about the ratings. We all seem to have the answer yet none of us seem to agree. Me, I'll leave it up to the networks and add executives to worry about. I've got the internet and have little problem locating where the race will be on from week to week. Whether it's on FOX, NBC or even the Oprah Channel someday, I'll still be watching and chances are you will be too.
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I get what you are saying, and when I am at home I really could care less what time the NASCAR race is. I will either watch it live, if I don't have a conflict or record it and watch it later. My point is about growing the sport based on fans and new fans attending the races. This is not like 1979 when an east coast snowstorm had thousands of people looking for something to watch and stumbled upon the Daytona 500. There are just too many options for that to happen now.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I guess I am very lucky to have options. We watch a lot of sports in my house.
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I feel lucky in the opposite way. I watch auto racing, golf, and NFL, in that order. If racing and golf conflict, we'll watch golf since my wife likes it. I DVR the race and watch it Sunday evening. For me, the NFL doesn't become a factor until racing season is over.

So my chances of having an unresolvable conflict are few; it's rare for Cup, Indy, and IMSA to have simultaneous events. The DVR can handle any two while I watch a third, and it's almost impossible for me to accidentally learn the Indy or IMSA results.
 
DIDIT said:
Charlie, my point is trying to bring in new fans not the fans who are already attending. I ask my neighbors who are not fans if they want to go to the race with us. But if I tell them we might not get back until after midnight Sunday I think there is more of a chance they will decline. We really need to be bringing in new fans not just thinking the average fan will be OK. I can tell you from personal experience I have decided to not go to a number of races because of how late they would get over. And, I am even retired and don't need to go to work the next day.
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My mistake; I thought you were saying the early start times were the discouragement, not the late finishes.
 
On an absolutely selfish note: I do not care when they start, as I DVR all races, avoid any news about the races, and watch it (them) at my leisure. :punkrocke If I had to sit and watch Nascar racing live on "TV", well then, I sure would miss a lot of racing. I have a lot of things I do other than tie up my prime time activities on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays in front of the TV for Nascar.
Example: The Friday night Truck races, we watch at about 6AM on Saturday morning with coffee and breakfast, takes about an hour and change. The Saturday Bush Race, we Watch on Sunday Morning at about 6AM with Coffee and Breakfast, takes an hour to hour and a half. The Sunday Cup Race we watch during and after Supper on Sunday night, takes about 2.5 hours tops. Easy peezee. :D

But hay, to each his own.:D
 
It gets quite hot in the American southeast during much of racing season. During most of those months, I prefer to watch races in the garage. I can get a ton of stuff done in the yard during each 2.5 minute commercial break, then return to the shade and my beverage of choice when the coverage comes back.
 
sdj said:
On an absolutely selfish note: I do not care when they start, as I DVR all races, avoid any news about the races, and watch it (them) at my leisure. :punkrocke If I had to sit and watch Nascar racing live on "TV", well then, I sure would miss a lot of racing. I have a lot of things I do other than tie up my prime time activities on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays in front of the TV for Nascar.
Example: The Friday night Truck races, we watch at about 6AM on Saturday morning with coffee and breakfast, takes about an hour and change. The Saturday Bush Race, we Watch on Sunday Morning at about 6AM with Coffee and Breakfast, takes an hour to hour and a half. The Sunday Cup Race we watch during and after Supper on Sunday night, takes about 2.5 hours tops. Easy peezee. :D

But hay, to each his own.:D
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Like you I DVR all Nascar races except I only watch cup. For selfish reasons having the races on as early as possible would be great for me as it leaves more time to watch it on race day. I start watching after about a half lap is made and once the winner crosses the strip the delete button is hit. In some cases I bail out early and in others I just watch parts and you can watch a race pretty quickly. I don't think my method is the best but just one that works for me. .
 
sdj said:
On an absolutely selfish note: I do not care when they start, as I DVR all races, avoid any news about the races, and watch it (them) at my leisure. :punkrocke If I had to sit and watch Nascar racing live on "TV", well then, I sure would miss a lot of racing. I have a lot of things I do other than tie up my prime time activities on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays in front of the TV for Nascar.
Example: The Friday night Truck races, we watch at about 6AM on Saturday morning with coffee and breakfast, takes about an hour and change. The Saturday Bush Race, we Watch on Sunday Morning at about 6AM with Coffee and Breakfast, takes an hour to hour and a half. The Sunday Cup Race we watch during and after Supper on Sunday night, takes about 2.5 hours tops. Easy peezee. :D

But hay, to each his own.:D
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My question is " who makes breakfast and what is being served?" :D
 
Team Penske said:
My question is " who makes breakfast and what is being served?" :D
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Me, Eggs grits bacon. Eggs white rice bacon. Cheese grits bacon and eggs. Hash browns bacon eggs. Pan sausage some times and link sausage sometimes. Toast when we want it with plum, grape, orange marmalade or guava jelly. Omelets when I get the urge, made all kind of ways. To name just a few variations. :D
 
AtomicPunk55 said:
Like you I DVR all Nascar races except I only watch cup. For selfish reasons having the races on as early as possible would be great for me as it leaves more time to watch it on race day. I start watching after about a half lap is made and once the winner crosses the strip the delete button is hit. In some cases I bail out early and in others I just watch parts and you can watch a race pretty quickly. I don't think my method is the best but just one that works for me. .
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If you miss the Truck races, you miss the "Best Racing" of the weekend. JMHO
 
gnomesayin said:
It's a nonstarter because Friday night is the lowest night of the week for TV viewership. If NASCAR and the networks decide to try a mid-week race, it will be another night. Saturday night races have been proven to attract smaller audiences than Sunday afternoons.

In a parallel universe in which those were desirable timeslots, I don't believe it would be as bad for short tracks in the age of DVRs and smaller NASCAR viewership as it would have been 20 years ago. Most short track fans I know wouldn't even consider staying home in favor of a NASCAR race.
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Nope, short track all the way, if my local tracks are putting on a big show, I'm gong, I'll check updates on my phone if it is Saturday night race.
 
sdj said:
Me, Eggs grits bacon. Eggs white rice bacon. Cheese grits bacon and eggs. Hash browns bacon eggs. Pan sausage some times and link sausage sometimes. Toast when we want it with plum, grape, orange marmalade or guava jelly. Omelets when I get the urge, made all kind of ways. To name just a few variations. :D
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Needs more bacon.
 
Formerjackman said:
Night races traditionally draw lower ratings than day races too.
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And that's crazy! Man I remember when the August night race at Bristol was the BOMB!. It was like an holy pilgrimage for the hard core short track fans. How in the world can that get messed up? It did. A good buddy and I had an annual tradition, two slabs of ribs from the local barbeque shack and watch every single lap. That place was packed. We wouldn't miss that for less than a death in the family, and in that case it would have depended on the relative.
 
mack said:
And that's crazy! Man I remember when the August night race at Bristol was the BOMB!. It was like an holy pilgrimage for the hard core short track fans. How in the world can that get messed up? It did. A good buddy and I had an annual tradition, two slabs of ribs from the local barbeque shack and watch every single lap. That place was packed. We wouldn't miss that for less than a death in the family, and in that case it would have depended on the relative.
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Note that Formerjackman was talking about night races getting lower TV ratings, not about track attendance.
 
As far a track attendance goes I would not say that later starts are killing it but they can't possibly help in many situations. I knew guys that would get on the road at 4:30-5:00 AM and head to the track on Sunday for a race that would actually start right after 1:00 PM. They got home between 10:30-11:00 PM and went to work the next day. I don't keep track of what time the races start but there is a big difference in getting home around 11 instead of 1:00 AM.
 
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