What Do you Think of the New Package?

Towmater said:
With 2 post like that you'd better watch out. You might get labeled a "deathbedder". BTW, nothing wrong at all with calling the sport out. I dig your style. Glad someone else sees things aren't all OK in NASCARland.
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@Spotter22 has the best interest of NASCAR at heart, whether I agree with his approach or not. Only a couple people who don't and argue in bad faith have been labeled as that. Nobody else is confused about this.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Drivers have been starting in the back and coming to the top 10 all season. The #19 crew may be up to something but I don’t see that as an indicator.
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In addition to running away and hiding the last stage Truex blowing the rear tires off of it just looks suspicious IMO. It wasn't like the first race he had won and I can't but think Truex knew what he was opening up himself and the team to by doing that.
 
gnomesayin said:
@Spotter22 has the best interest of NASCAR at heart, whether I agree with his approach or not. Only a couple people who don't and argue in bad faith have been labeled as that. Nobody else is confused about this.
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I appreciate that and echo that most here have the best interest of NASCAR at heart, we just have differeing opinions and thats fine. I'll never be a deathbedder, Dum spiro spero!
 
StandOnIt said:
In addition to running away and hiding the last stage Truex blowing the rear tires off of it just looks suspicious IMO. It wasn't like the first race he had won and I can't but think Truex knew what he was opening up himself and the team to by doing that.
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No doubt, I wonder if teams are still finding ways of toying with the rear-end? After the whole Penske fiasco, it was not mentioned as much. I guess Pearn and company found something mechical grip wise. Truex was able to keep his speed mid-corner like it was nothing.
 
Kiante said:
No doubt, I wonder if teams are still finding ways of toying with the rear-end? After the whole Penske fiasco, it was not mentioned as much. I guess Pearn and company found something mechical grip wise. Truex was able to keep his speed mid-corner like it was nothing.
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on the other hand, how can Nascar say anything when the story could be from the team, oh that was damage from the burnout..it passed pre inspection after a try or two.:D It just wasn't a good move IMO, looks like they are hiding something.
 
Towmater said:
Maybe the simple solution is to ban burnouts or take the win away if it damages the rear of the car.
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I can’t imagine burnouts damaging geometry. Throw a fresh set of tires on it post-race and run it back through the lasers.
They still have post-race vehicle inspection, right?
Conspiracy theorists wanna know.
 
BobbyFord said:
I can’t imagine burnouts damaging geometry. Throw a fresh set of tires on it post-race and run it back through the lasers.
They still have post-race vehicle inspection, right?
Conspiracy theorists wanna know.
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Left or right-hand burnouts?
 
If you wanted to be sure your rear end housing “returned” to its inspected location and you won the race, a violent circular burnout would be to advantage.
 
BobbyFord said:
I can’t imagine ONE team has this magical random rear axle geometry and the others are running around in circles, bumping into each other.
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I said “to be sure”.

There have been half a dozen different linkage arrangements used to trick the housing and the inspectors. At this point, I have no idea whether or not anybody has figured a way around the welding rules that are in place to defeat that.

Done “properly”, the housing would return to its static position in normal use. The burnout moves things in the proper direction on the off chance that doesn’t happen.

Do the Gibbs cars shade the rules? Sometimes I ask a question when I already know the answer.
 
aunty dive said:
I said “to be sure”.

There have been half a dozen different linkage arrangements used to trick the housing and the inspectors. At this point, I have no idea whether or not anybody has figured a way around the welding rules that are in place to defeat that.

Done “properly”, the housing would return to its static position in normal use. The burnout moves things in the proper direction on the off chance that doesn’t happen.

Do the Gibbs cars shade the rules? Sometimes I ask a question when I already know the answer.
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I think if you’re going fast and you have money then you have a better chance at getting into the gray area. Everyone has the same chance.
Generally nobody remembers who finishes second.
I think NASCAR inspection is the best it’s ever been and utilizes the most modern and effective methods available.
R&D will eventually determine if someone is manipulating a rule.
I think NASCAR is more credible today in terms of maintaining a level playing field than in the past two decades or so.
 
StandOnIt said:
In addition to running away and hiding the last stage Truex blowing the rear tires off of it just looks suspicious IMO. It wasn't like the first race he had won and I can't but think Truex knew what he was opening up himself and the team to by doing that.
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I agree the rear blowouts were questionable (now that I know about them; I DVR'ed it and stopped watching at the checkers) and may (or may not) have been hiding something. I fully back banning them. I'm just evaluating that separately from the 'worst to first' run. It doesn't take anything special to do that this year.

And I've seen blowouts in other cases. I remember ... Sprague? Hornaday? setting the tires on fire, a literal burnout. Nobody's going to do a burnout except the winner anyway.
 
Spotter22 said:
Dogs and cats living together!
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EtLDCxG.gif
 
BobbyFord said:
I can’t imagine ONE team has this magical random rear axle geometry and the others are running around in circles, bumping into each other.
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NASCAR has always been about ONE team finding something and then everyone catching up to them. This certain circumstance may or may not be the case, but it is entirely possible the Truex team found something.
 
Spotter22 said:
I wonder if they have forgotten that this package was put together with industry wide cooperation?
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Define industry wide. Because now we've got an actual team owner openly bashing this thing on social media. So just how on board was everyone that was involved? Seems like you're assuming that everyone was giddy as all hell to roll this thing out with no trepidation. Doesn't appear to be the case. There's no possible way Leavine is the only one, he's just the first to say it, and good for him.

All I know is industry wide definitely doesn't include the guys holding the steering wheels and the ones busting their rear ends preparing the cars, and those are the guys that have to try and turn lemons into lemonade every Sunday with the tools provided to them. I trust their opinions over anyone else's.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Define industry wide. Because now we've got an actual team owner openly bashing this thing on social media. So just how on board was everyone that was involved? Seems like you're assuming that everyone was giddy as all hell to roll this thing out with no trepidation. Doesn't appear to be the case. There's no possible way Leavine is the only one, he's just the first to say it, and good for him.

All I know is industry wide definitely doesn't include the guys holding the steering wheels and the ones busting their rear ends preparing the cars, and those are the guys that have to try and turn lemons into lemonade every Sunday with the tools provided to them. I trust their opinions over anyone else's.
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NASCAR, Team owners, Manufacturers and Drivers. The guys working on the cars would be doing the same thing every week and weekend regardless of the "package" they run. Not everyone is gonna be happy and frankly I dont give a crap if the drivers like it or not, its not about them. With that said, my initial statement is true, you can Monday morning quarterback it all you want.
 
Both of Martin's wins were with 750hp. He hasn't had much success with 550hp. Something to keep an eye on this week. We have to track who does well with certain packages now. :wacko:
 
Spotter22 said:
NASCAR, Team owners, Manufacturers and Drivers. The guys working on the cars would be doing the same thing every week and weekend regardless of the "package" they run. Not everyone is gonna be happy and frankly I dont give a crap if the drivers like it or not, its not about them. With that said, my initial statement is true, you can Monday morning quarterback it all you want.
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The drivers weren't on board, that's pretty obvious. And it is about them, how the heck is it not? Look in the grandstands. Where are the people in street clothes with 0 rooting interest? Look at all the fans we've lost over the years with deceased and retiring drivers. There's only maybe a couple on here that don't have a favorite and even those few pull for a few in their minds and lack taste for others. There's no other sport where the fan is more attached to 1 individual athlete. So you go on thinking they don't matter. I'll tell you this, they could remove the biggest names in the sport tomorrow and fill those seats with a bunch of Xfinity and truck drivers and I wouldn't watch a single lap.
 
StandOnIt said:
In addition to running away and hiding the last stage Truex blowing the rear tires off of it just looks suspicious IMO. It wasn't like the first race he had won and I can't but think Truex knew what he was opening up himself and the team to by doing that.
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Of course. I think they should send him to the wind tunnel.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
The drivers weren't on board, that's pretty obvious. And it is about them, how the heck is it not? Look in the grandstands. Where are the people in street clothes with 0 rooting interest? Look at all the fans we've lost over the years with deceased and retiring drivers. There's only maybe a couple on here that don't have a favorite and even those few pull for a few in their minds and lack taste for others. There's no other sport where the fan is more attached to 1 individual athlete. So you go on thinking they don't matter. I'll tell you this, they could remove the biggest names in the sport tomorrow and fill those seats with a bunch of Xfinity and truck drivers and I wouldn't watch a single lap.
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Well I will say as an aside from all the aero package talk, it hasn’t really been the same for me since Gordon retired. You cheer for someone since you were 3rd grade all the way through to buying your own house as adult, there is an attachment there. But in some ways it’s been nice watching a race where you’re not cheering for one guy I guess no pressure is a way to put it. Now I just take a passing interest in Elliott, Harvick, Larson, Austin Dillon, the Busch Brothers with a shout out to Suarez and Erik Jones. What I’m trying to say is I think the big names lost to retirement would have put a dent into attendance regardless of what package the drivers and teams are running. Is this the optimal package? Not sure for me yet but leaning towards no...but others have made their minds up no getting away from that
 
aunty dive said:
Do the Gibbs cars shade the rules? Sometimes I ask a question when I already know the answer.
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They are not alone....just more successful at it for the moment. This is what makes this sport awesome IMO. Others will bitch about finding another million per team to improve the OSS, wind tunnel the cars more frequently, etc. unless, of course, Chase Elliott is winning....than the car is 100% legal, and it is all about skill. Is anybody who follows this sport under the impression that the cars are 100% legal? I'm not.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
The drivers weren't on board, that's pretty obvious. And it is about them, how the heck is it not? Look in the grandstands. Where are the people in street clothes with 0 rooting interest? Look at all the fans we've lost over the years with deceased and retiring drivers. There's only maybe a couple on here that don't have a favorite and even those few pull for a few in their minds and lack taste for others. There's no other sport where the fan is more attached to 1 individual athlete. So you go on thinking they don't matter. I'll tell you this, they could remove the biggest names in the sport tomorrow and fill those seats with a bunch of Xfinity and truck drivers and I wouldn't watch a single lap.
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The drivers drive what they are given, they have input but they dont get everything they want. They never have. Never.
 
Spotter22 said:
I appreciate that and echo that most here have the best interest of NASCAR at heart, we just have differeing opinions and thats fine. I'll never be a deathbedder, Dum spiro spero!
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You are also a Nielsen household with an unknown amount of televisions. I thank you for your contributions to NASCAR and upping the ratings.

Shall we continue?

Spotter22 said:
NASCAR, Team owners, Manufacturers and Drivers. The guys working on the cars would be doing the same thing every week and weekend regardless of the "package" they run. Not everyone is gonna be happy and frankly I dont give a crap if the drivers like it or not, its not about them. With that said, my initial statement is true, you can Monday morning quarterback it all you want.
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Considering KB spoke out less than favorably about the package since ground zero at the Vegas test, I doubt he was on board. We can probably rule out Harvick Larson Bowyer and owner Bob Leavine as well.



NASCAR made their own executive decision under the guise of "everyone working together" imo. They should consider valuing their own driver's opinions as essential feedback, and perhaps find themselves in a better state.
 
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2019/0...ut-the-drivers-voice-is-not-being-heard-much/


Harvick also lamented how drivers don’t have the kind of leaders or communication avenues as open with NASCAR that others had in the past, most notably the late Dale Earnhardt.

“From a driver’s standpoint, in the past we started the driver’s council and that has kind of faded away this year and there’s a little frustration on the driver’s side because it has fallen on deaf ears over the past couple of years,” Harvick said. “I think a lot of Kyle’s (Busch) frustration and what he’s saying bleeds over to other drivers. You don’t feel like your voice is being heard. … The driver’s voice is not being heard very much on things when it comes to competition, especially when it comes to this particular style of rules package, and then you get to Dover and it boils over after the first 11 weeks.

“… Before Dale Sr. passed, he was the kind of guy NASCAR trusted, could go to and say things and the drivers all trusted and said we’re on board with him. I don’t really feel there’s that type of communication since Dale Sr. left. There’s no guy and no one really in the very top of the NASCAR executive side of things that has the experience inside the car that can relate to the drivers and say this is what these guys are feeling, what they’re saying and I understand their frustrations.

“It’s a very tough, tough position that everything is in right now, after all this stuff is laid on the table by the race winner, (team owner) Bob Leavine and Kyle Busch. There’s a lot of things to digest here.”


The competitors are not being heard when it comes to competing. Instead, we defer to fragile blowhards like O'Donnell.
 
sounds like a couple of drivers think the cars are too hard to drive, I thought they were supposed to be easier?
 
Turtle84 said:
You are also a Nielsen household with an unknown amount of televisions. I thank you for your contributions to NASCAR and upping the ratings.

Shall we continue?



Considering KB spoke out less than favorably about the package since ground zero at the Vegas test, I doubt he was on board. We can probably rule out Harvick Larson Bowyer and owner Bob Leavine as well.



NASCAR made their own executive decision under the guise of "everyone working together" imo. They should consider valuing their own driver's opinions as essential feedback, and perhaps find themselves in a better state.
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What the hell are you talking about? "Im a Nielson household with unlimited TVs" lol. I sent in a Nielson survey, where you got "unknown amounts of Tvs" is well just bizarre. And btw I dont think they care how many TVs you have , they never asked me.

I dont care that KB or any other driver spoke out that they didnt like it, what I posted is factually true, Nobody ever said every single driver or car owner was contacted or involved. Its been reported many times that this package was a collaboration between every group I mentioned. Steve Odonell was on Sirius XM yesterday explaining the very same thing.

Sorry Sherlock, but you struck out.
 
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