What Do you Think of the New Package?

I wonder what happened to pack racing and driver's like David Regan will be winning races with these choked down cars like I was told was going to happen?
 
LewTheShoe said:
It's ironic that all this media angst about 'The Package' comes after one-mile Dover. As SOI pointed out, the Dover motors still make 750 HP, and the key elements of driving and racing the cars are less affected by the aero rules changes than at bigger tracks. The 2019 rules originated for the 1.5ers/2.0ers, not for Dover.

One thing is certain... the aero rules did not create a 10 second margin of victory. Clean air has nothing to do with 10 second gaps. By the time Truex had pulled ahead by 2 or 3 seconds, the trailing car also had clean air... and yet Truex continued to pull ahead... because he was faster.

Don't know about y'all, but I will be more unhappy about 'The Package' at Kansas than at Dover... anemic power, heavy drag, glued down by downforce, WFO droning around, driving skills de-emphasized.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point. The media angst is because they have the Busch, Harvick, and Leavine comments as a jumping off point. I think there also is accumulating frustration. Busch was certainly more salty because he had a relatively bad day. However, his opinion of the package has been consistent whether he wins or struggles, and pretending this is solely a matter of performance for him is patently false. He's a great momentum racer and one of the best no matter the formula.

There are certainly shades of bad and worse with the variations in the 2019 rules. The less full version of the package any track features, the better. I have been on record that I consider the high downforce elements of the package to be even worse than the low power portion for the intermediates. At least there is a supposed excuse for the power reduction due to OEM preferences. If they coupled that with further reductions in downforce and sideforce, that's a package that could work everywhere.

This is why the addition of the aero ducts to the remaining intermediate tracks is a travesty, and only good if it pisses people off enough to provoke quicker reversals.
 
Glad Nascar made the change on the fly looking forward to what the changes do. The All Star race is another experiment coming up that could give ol Kyle yet another reason to spout off. He's a bad imitation of Stewart in the temper tantrum category and win column unless you count..well ya know.
 
StandOnIt said:
Glad Nascar made the change on the fly looking forward to what the changes do. The All Star race is another experiment coming up that could give ol Kyle yet another reason to spout off. He's a bad imitation of Stewart in the temper tantrum category and win column unless you count..well ya know.
Click to expand...

Jeez. He's already ahead of Smoke in Cup wins. Cole Pearn too, and he probably has Austin Dillon beat by a couple, not sure, if that's the qualification to speak. Why not try "I disagree with Kyle Busch, but he's earned the right to an opinion" on for size?
 
gnomesayin said:
Jeez. He's already ahead of Smoke in Cup wins. Cole Pearn too, and he probably has Austin Dillon beat by a couple, not sure, if that's the qualification to speak. Why not try "I disagree with Kyle Busch, but he's earned the right to an opinion" on for size?
Click to expand...
That seems too logical for some posters.
 
Spotter22 said:
:idunno:
Click to expand...
personally when we have Kyle and Kevin basically inheriting their leadership? roles by default neither have impressed me as leadership material, but each have a long history of being hot headed selfish prima donnas. So whomever can talk until they are blue in the face trying to convince me differently and it just ain't going to work.
 
gnomesayin said:
Jeez. He's already ahead of Smoke in Cup wins. Cole Pearn too, and he probably has Austin Dillon beat by a couple, not sure, if that's the qualification to speak. Why not try "I disagree with Kyle Busch, but he's earned the right to an opinion" on for size?
Click to expand...
how's he doing on championships, driving series, popularity I wonder.
 
Personally I've thought the racing has been better at the recent or fresh paved intermediate tracks. Las Vegas, Texas were both better than usual in my opinion.

Kansas fits that same bill
 
Two championship winning drivers and other race winning drivers plus active cup drivers say this package does not promote passing and frankly some say it stinks.
Plus I have said it before go on YouTube and find the video posted "They booed us" with Clint Boyer on Dale Jr's podcast. They both said this package is to easy to drive and the cars handle to well.
Also go to motorsport.com and read the article with Rick Mears. The heading will be about the new windscreen for Indy car. Half way through the article Rick talks about the direction Indy car is going with the cars. Indy car is moving in a HIGH HORSEPOWER LOW DOWNFORCE package. Rick said this package is the best because it brings the bottom to the top in driver talent. Where as high downforce low horsepower is bringing the top to the bottom.

We can all have our opinions but I am just stunned how some people on this board think they know more sitting behind their keyboards than current drivers and a 4 time Indy 500 champ is beyond me. It really takes a lot of brass to think you know more than people who just Sunday drove these cars in real life.
 
StandOnIt said:
Same for Harvick IMO. Who died and left them boss. Chaps my hams Harvick brought Dale Sr. into his rant. Dale Sr could have just as easily said ya bunch of babies race the car.
Click to expand...

LOL'D @ "Chaps my hams". Can we throw that on Harvick's millenial car please?
 
nitetrain said:
Two championship winning drivers and other race winning drivers plus active cup drivers say this package does not promote passing and frankly some say it stinks.
Plus I have said it before go on YouTube and find the video posted "They booed us" with Clint Boyer on Dale Jr's podcast. They both said this package is to easy to drive and the cars handle to well.
Also go to motorsport.com and read the article with Rick Mears. The heading will be about the new windscreen for Indy car. Half way through the article Rick talks about the direction Indy car is going with the cars. Indy car is moving in a HIGH HORSEPOWER LOW DOWNFORCE package. Rick said this package is the best because it brings the bottom to the top in driver talent. Where as high downforce low horsepower is bringing the top to the bottom.

We can all have our opinions but I am just stunned how some people on this board think they know more sitting behind their keyboards than current drivers and a 4 time Indy 500 champ is beyond me. It really takes a lot of brass to think you know more than people who just Sunday drove these cars in real life.
Click to expand...


Tell ya what, let the Indy Boys dial it up and see what happens. That will be the true test. Until then it is just nothing more than speculation IMO. Nascar did that already.
 
Indy Car: Push to Pass

They have no credibility on passing -- they're using a Go button...
 
I think they'll go back towards low downforce eventually and Gen-7 is pushed back to 2022.

It's nigh impossible to have an actual discussion about this but I'll just say it's hard to see them sticking to this philosophy for the new car. Backlash from both the fans and the garage is already spilling over and if you put any stock into the Gluck polls two-thirds of the races thus far have been received less favorably compared to 2018 and 2017. It just doesn't seem to make sense for anyone, but as with most cases, it will take a while for NASCAR management to do an about-face.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think they'll go back towards low downforce eventually and Gen-7 is pushed back to 2022.

It's nigh impossible to have an actual discussion about this but I'll just say it's hard to see them sticking to this philosophy for the new car. Backlash from both the fans and the garage is already spilling over and if you put any stock into the Gluck polls two-thirds of the races thus far have been received less favorably compared to 2018 and 2017. It just doesn't seem to make sense for anyone, but as with most cases, it will take a while for NASCAR management to do an about-face.
Click to expand...
First year of the packages, first 11 races. Wishful thinking for some I would guess. I don't think Nascar is ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater when a new car is being readied for 2021. Nonsense.
 
Has this subject been argued on this forum in years past?I have been watching NASCAR on a regular basis since the Wide World of Sports days and have seen good racing and bad racing and this rules changing is making me less interested in this sport.
Are they working on having a rules package for each individual track?Because that’s where it seems to be headed.
It seems obvious that a big spoiler makes a big wake behind and will cause the infamous aero push.
In my opinion there should be 2 engines ,1 for Superspeedways and one for the rest.
This series needs leadership quickly or it will never come out of this slump it’s in.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 
machinistman3 said:
Has this subject been argued on this forum in years past?I have been watching NASCAR on a regular basis since the Wide World of Sports days and have seen good racing and bad racing and this rules changing is making me less interested in this sport.
Are they working on having a rules package for each individual track?Because that’s where it seems to be headed.
It seems obvious that a big spoiler makes a big wake behind and will cause the infamous aero push.
In my opinion there should be 2 engines ,1 for Superspeedways and one for the rest.
This series needs leadership quickly or it will never come out of this slump it’s in.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Click to expand...

going to be a bunch more rule changing in the future, hate to break it to ya, new car and all in 2021. It will be fine.
 
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2019/0...ut-the-drivers-voice-is-not-being-heard-much/

Kevin Harvick on Dover fallout: ‘The driver’s voice is not being heard much

You look at the things he does and places he races, those are big comments from somebody like Kyle,” Harvick said of Busch. “Look at the facts, my car was 17 mph faster through the corner than it was last year and 4 mph slower on the straightaway.

“That’s something the drivers have really talked about the last 3-4 years, getting the corner speeds down. That’s where some of the frustration showed up at Dover…. We’ve slowed the cars on the straight, but the center of the corner speeds are still up at most every racetrack we go to. So I understand and agree with his frustrations.”
 
nitetrain said:
Two championship winning drivers and other race winning drivers plus active cup drivers say this package does not promote passing and frankly some say it stinks.
Plus I have said it before go on YouTube and find the video posted "They booed us" with Clint Boyer on Dale Jr's podcast. They both said this package is to easy to drive and the cars handle to well.
Also go to motorsport.com and read the article with Rick Mears. The heading will be about the new windscreen for Indy car. Half way through the article Rick talks about the direction Indy car is going with the cars. Indy car is moving in a HIGH HORSEPOWER LOW DOWNFORCE package. Rick said this package is the best because it brings the bottom to the top in driver talent. Where as high downforce low horsepower is bringing the top to the bottom.

We can all have our opinions but I am just stunned how some people on this board think they know more sitting behind their keyboards than current drivers and a 4 time Indy 500 champ is beyond me. It really takes a lot of brass to think you know more than people who just Sunday drove these cars in real life.
Click to expand...
/thread.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2019/0...ut-the-drivers-voice-is-not-being-heard-much/

Kevin Harvick on Dover fallout: ‘The driver’s voice is not being heard much

You look at the things he does and places he races, those are big comments from somebody like Kyle,” Harvick said of Busch. “Look at the facts, my car was 17 mph faster through the corner than it was last year and 4 mph slower on the straightaway.

“That’s something the drivers have really talked about the last 3-4 years, getting the corner speeds down. That’s where some of the frustration showed up at Dover…. We’ve slowed the cars on the straight, but the center of the corner speeds are still up at most every racetrack we go to. So I understand and agree with his frustrations.”
Click to expand...
The low downforce movement of the last 4 or 5 years was championed by Carl Edwards. He provided persistent and vocal leadership to make known the boost in the legitimacy of the sport from "putting the race back in the hands of the drivers." And the Drivers Council got on the bandwagon, backed the Edwards campaign, and wonder of wonders... they forced Brian France to back off his pack racing fetish and go along with the low downforce concept. I was never a fan of Edwards, but this to me is his lasting legacy in the sport. And I also recognize he was an excellent driver.

Now Jim France has deactivated the Drivers Council, which I regret. Yes the open door policy is there, but the platform for the drivers to speak is weakened. I don't know how much input the drivers had on this new, opposite philosophy of racing... but my sense is they didn't have much if any. I believe Jim France sees the team owners as the key stakeholders he needs to collaborate with... and each team owner can worry about what his drivers think.

Those who feel that Nascar should be a meritocracy of driving skill and team execution... such as me... have to regret that there is no Carl Edwards-type leadership among the drivers corps at the current time.
 
I really don't even know what we're headed for, we could be looking at some ugly times in the near future if this continues. It would almost make sense for the drivers to have their own "players association" like other leagues. Whether or not that could even be done this late into the life of the sport is beyond me, but you could get someone like a Carl Edwards to head it up. At the very least, NASCAR should be having a weekend long winter meeting with every single cup driver in attendance at the end of every season. Hammer this crap out and find a middle ground. The way things are currently done just comes off as so juvenile.
 
I understand that the new car is coming but those in charge need to do their homework before just changing for the sake of change until the the new car is ready.
I need a program to tell me what package they are running this week.
I remember when spoiler height and front valance height was all they really changed.
This has gotten to the ludicrous point.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Those who feel that Nascar should be a meritocracy of driving skill and team execution... such as me... have to regret that there is no Carl Edwards-type leadership among the drivers corps at the current time.
Click to expand...

It is unfortunate, because Kyle Busch has adopted similar views and knows what separates the good from the best. NASCAR has made a point to promote him this year as the sport's top driver, and he could use that political capital to carry the torch. However, he's...Kyle Busch. All bluster, a one man island, and lacking the social skills to be a leader. Everyone respects his talent, and that's about it.
 
machinistman3 said:
I understand that the new car is coming but those in charge need to do their homework before just changing for the sake of change until the the new car is ready.
I need a program to tell me what package they are running this week.
I remember when spoiler height and front valance height was all they really changed.
This has gotten to the ludicrous point.
Click to expand...
they make a handy chart now, billfold or suitable for framing :D:p

D6EhYq4UcAAA4ih.jpg:large
 
machinistman3 said:
Maybe with social media we just know too much. I guess in the old days a lot of this was kept behind closed doors and now we know every bit of minutiae that is said about every thing that happens.
Click to expand...
no way of proving it, but I think there have been changes made to the inspection process. Cars are taken back east to look for "trends". The public isn't informed if they find some so far. Fine with me.
 
In rules I think the less is more theory is surely the approach those in charge should take. The other 2 series have a fraction of the drama and put out a better product in my opinion.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2019/0...ut-the-drivers-voice-is-not-being-heard-much/

Kevin Harvick on Dover fallout: ‘The driver’s voice is not being heard much

You look at the things he does and places he races, those are big comments from somebody like Kyle,” Harvick said of Busch. “Look at the facts, my car was 17 mph faster through the corner than it was last year and 4 mph slower on the straightaway.

“That’s something the drivers have really talked about the last 3-4 years, getting the corner speeds down. That’s where some of the frustration showed up at Dover…. We’ve slowed the cars on the straight, but the center of the corner speeds are still up at most every racetrack we go to. So I understand and agree with his frustrations.”
Click to expand...

I found this quote interesting as well:

"Our team is not aligned with a lot of the decisions and some of the things that have happened in the sport. … I think we’ve got to pull the owners into this conversation because a lot of them have pushed NASCAR into doing the things they’ve done from a financial situation. … We have to get the drivers and owners to be more on the same page with what’s going on from the owner’s and NASCAR standpoint and get that communication right. That’s a piece of the puzzle that’s missing. "

In other words, it was reported that some teams dissented and voted against adopting the high downforce package last year. This all but confirms that SHR was one of them.
 
The trucks when you don't have Kyle stinking up the show make a lot of mistakes with over driving, filling gaps that aren't there etc. Some people make fun, but I think it is a blast to watch. And then Xfinity is much less so but they do have their ups and downs. The cup drivers for the most part don't make that many driving mistakes compared to the other two series. They all have pretty much the same rules, and IMO using the same rules for cup as the trucks puts a higher burden on the truck teams who many don't have the resources or the manpower to execute perfect pit stops.
 
StandOnIt said:
The trucks when you don't have Kyle stinking up the show make a lot of mistakes with over driving, filling gaps that aren't there etc. Some people make fun, but I think it is a blast to watch. And then Xfinity is much less so but they do have their ups and downs. The cup drivers for the most part don't make that many driving mistakes compared to the other two series. They all have pretty much the same rules, and IMO using the same rules for cup as the trucks puts a higher burden on the truck teams who many don't have the resources or the manpower to execute perfect pit stops.
Click to expand...

I am right there with you on the trucks. I like good racing and maybe a chance for a lesser team having a good day and stealing a win.It happens in the Monster series but usually it’s fuel mileage or a RP track.
 
machinistman3 said:
In rules I think the less is more theory is surely the approach those in charge should take. The other 2 series have a fraction of the drama and put out a better product in my opinion.
Click to expand...

In my opinion there are two drivers whining about Dover. One is Harvick that is having a bad start to a season, and another, Kyle who is known for temper tantrums when he has a bad finish and things aren't going his way. I guess some have forgotten the rule they had to make about driver interviews because Kyle was impossible to interview if he had a bad day, and now they flock around him like hungry buzzards looking for just this sort of thing (drama). He didn't let em down F word and all.
 
Last edited:
machinistman3 said:
I am right there with you on the trucks. I like good racing and maybe a chance for a lesser team having a good day and stealing a win.It happens in the Monster series but usually it’s fuel mileage or a RP track.
Click to expand...
one guy I have been following is Stewart Friesen in the trucks. He has a fast truck being a GMS affiliate, but he gets killed a lot compared to the high buck teams in the pits. I think I wish they would so something about that, like have them go out the same position they came in..but there ya go another rule. :D We have to face the fact that pit stops are an exciting part of the race, but the uncontrolled tire deal in the trucks is ridiculous..in the box should be good IMO.
 
Harvick didn't say much about Dover specifically and talked about the entirety of the 2019 rules, the process and lack of driver input, his team's opposition to changes that have been made, owner financial issues, and cited comments from Erik Jones, Truex, and others. You don't have to look far back to find other critical comments from other drivers, so it won't work to claim that it's two drivers and try to isolate them.

Austin Dillon likes it. Logano seems to, and Brad is at least agnostic and choosing not to criticize, though he argued for low downforce previously as well. Elliott said it's what we have so we may as well like it. There's your yays for the package. By and large it's not the drivers' preference, this much should be obvious for all.
 
gnomesayin said:
Harvick didn't say much about Dover specifically and talked about the entirety of the 2019 rules, the process and lack of driver input, his team's opposition to changes that have been made, owner financial issues, and cited comments from Erik Jones, Truex, and others. You don't have to look far back to find other critical comments from other drivers, so it won't work to claim that it's two drivers and try to isolate them.

Austin Dillon likes it. Logano seems to, and Brad is at least agnostic and choosing not to criticize, though he argued for low downforce previously as well. Elliott said it's what we have so we may as well like it. There's your yays for the package. By and large it's not the drivers' preference, this much should be obvious for all.
Click to expand...
kinda have your wires crossed. Truex said the Texas race was better with the package and was looking forward to Kansas using it.
 
StandOnIt said:
kinda have your wires crossed. Truex said the Texas race was better with the package and was looking forward to Kansas using it.
Click to expand...

No I don't. I stated that Harvick cited comments from Truex about how hard it was to pass. He did. Truex has made differing remarks at different times. I'm trying to be accurate, not just argue my side and machine gun any of the figures who believe differently.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom