What If: Kyle Busch stayed at Roush Racing Part 1 (warning long post)

downnice

downnice

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2001 Kyle Busch made his NASCAR debut in the #99 Eldron Roush car running six races and getting two top 10 finishes, however at Auto Club the truck series was running the same day as the CART race which was sponsored by Marlboro and CART complained to NASCAR and Busch was pulled from the race and NASCAR change the rules for where someone under 18 can not compete in a top 3 series until I think Erik Jones or Chase Elliott (if anyone knows when they changed it back please tell me) In 2003 Kyle Busch left Roush for Hendrick and the rest is history, so what if NASCAR did not change the rules and Kyle Busch stayed at Roush.

During this timeline I will keep stats similar but thee will be some changes due to quality of the car etc...... and yes with the 2002 Truck season I do bend the rules on the age limit

2002 - Busch misses Daytona due to not being 18 and Tim Fedewa drives the #99 Eldron Truck, the rest of 2002 Kyle wins 2 races (Milwaukee and Las Vegas) and finishes 9th in points

2003 - Busch stays in the #99 and Carl Edwards goes to the #50 (sorry Jon Wood) Carl Edwards wins 3 races and finishes 8th and Kyle Busch wins 4 races and wins the 2003 Truck Series championship edging out Kvapil and Gaughan

2004 - Carl Edwards goes the #99 truck and Kyle Busch goes the #60 Citi Financial Busch Series car, Now who drives the #5 Lowes Busch car? Due Kyle Busch not running the #5 Brian Vickers/Jimmie Johnson and Justin Labonte share the #5 car for 2004. Kyle Busch wins 6 races in 2004 (giving him one of Biffles wins) but still finishes 2nd in the points to Martin Truex Jr. Jeff Burton still leaves Roush for RCR after Watkins Glen and is replaced by Carl Edwards

2005 - This is where my timeline splits from NASCAR. Greg Biffle irl in 2004 was heavily linked to driving the #11 FedEx car in 2005 before resigning, so in my universe Greg Biffle leaves Roush Racing and signs with Joe Gibbs to drive that #11 FedEx car, Kyle Busch replaces Biffle in the #16 and Carl Edwards drives the #99. 2005 Kyle Busch gets 2 wins and improves a little bit in the points to 14th due to the #16 at the time being a better ride than the #5.

Greg Biffle has a great season in the #11 winning 5 races and finishing second in the points.

At Hendrick Motorsports Ricky Craven signs a two year deal to drive the #5 car full time, Labonte still drives a limited schedule in the #44 and #11

Craven has a bit of resurgance in 2005 getting 6 top 5's and finishing 16th in points.

2006 - Bobby Labonte goes the #43 and Denny Hamlin goes to the #18 Interstate batteries car.

Kyle Busch gets 3 wins and finishes 9th in points, Greg Biffle secures 2 wins and finishes 7th in points, Denny Hamlin gets 1 win but does not make the chase finishing 12th in points, Ricky Craven falls off and finishing 21st in points.

2007 - Ricky Craven retires and is replaced by Casey Mears, the #25 is reduced to a part time car, Brian Vickers goes to Red Bull Racing.

Kyle Busch only gets 1 win and finishes 8th in the points, Greg Biffle also gets one 1 and misses the chase finishing 14th and Denny Hamlin gets 3 wins finishing 4th in points

2008 - Dale Jr goes to Hendrick to drive the #88, Denny Hamlin gets M&M's as the new primary sponsor of the #18.

Kyle Busch gets 4 wins and finishes 3rd in points, Greg Biffle has another disappointing season only getting 1 win and finishing 13th in points (the #11 is getting less funding), Denny Hamlin gets 9 Wins and wins the 2008 championship

2009 - Greg Biffle leaves the #11 and signs on to drive the #5, Kyle Busch goes to Gibbs and drives the #11 FedEx car, Mark Martins returns to Full time racing to drive the #6 UPS car and David Ragan is moved to the #16

Kyle Busch gets 3 wins but misses the chase, Greg Biffle gets 3 wins and finishes 7th in the points, David Ragan does nothing, and Mark Martin gets 2 wins and finishes 5th in the points.

2010 - Kyle Busch gets 3 wins and finishes 8th in points, Greg Biffle only gets 1 win and finishes 9th in points, Hamlin gets 10 wins and finishes 2nd in points and Mark Martin does win 1 race and finishes 11th in points.

2011 - Kasey Kahne signs a 1 year wait year deal with RBR, Kyle Busch gets 4 wins and finishes 11th in points (the Hornaday incident still happens and FedEx leaves Kyle Busch and Busch does not run the rest of the season. Denny Hamlin gets 1 win and finishes 9th, Greg Biffle has a bad season finishing 18th in points and Mark Martin wins the 2011 Daytona 500 and gets 2 wins finishing 15th in points.

2012 - FedEx is moved to the #18 car to sponsor Hamlin and Interstate Batteries goes to the #11 for Kyle Busch, M&M's will be the primary sponsor of the #20 while Dollar General will sponsor soem races for all the Gibbs cars. Kasey Kahne signs with Roush-Fenway to drive the #6 3M car and the #16 is shut down, Mark Martin runs part time for MWR.

Kyle Busch gets 0 wins finishing 13th in points, Denny Hamlin gets 5 wins finishing 6th in points, Kasey Kahne gets 3 wins finishing 3rd in points and Greg Biffle gets 2 wins finishing 5th in points

2013 - Matt Kenseth signs with Joe Gibbs Racing to drive the M&Ms #20
Kyle Busch gets 5 wins and finishes 4th in points, Denny Hamlin still gets his injury and gets 1 win and 23rd in points, Kasey Kahne gets 1 and finishes 12th in points and Greg Biffle gets 2 wins and finishes 9th in points/

2014 - Kyle Busch gets 1 win and finishes 10th, Denny Hamlin gets 2 wins and finishes 3rd in points, Greg Biffle goes winless and finishes 14th, Kasey Kahne gets 1 win and finishes 15th in points.

2015 - Carl Edwards signs with JGR to drive the #19

Kyle Busch gets injured but does not have the same success in the #11 as in real life and only gets 2 wins but makes the chase finishing 7th, Hamlin gets 2 wins and finishes 9th, Biffle again goes winless and finishes 20th in points, Kahne does sneak a win and finishes 13th in points.

2016 - Greg Biffle is released from Hendrick Motorsports and Clint Bowyer signs a 3 year deal to drive the #5, Biffle not being able to find a cup ride retires a year earlier than in real life.

Kyle Busch gets 5 wins and wins the 2016 cup title, Denny Hamlin wins 3 races and finishes 6th in points, Kahne does not win and misses the chase and Clint Bowyer wins 1 race and finishes 12th in points.

2017 - Kasey Kahne leaves the #6 and signs with SHR to drive the #14 replacing the retired Tony Stewart. Kyle Busch gets 5 wins ands finishes 2nd in points, Denny Hamlin gets 2 wins and finishes 6th in points, Kasey Kahne gets 2 wins and finishes 7th in points and Clint Bowyer does not win a race but finishes 11th in points.

2018 - Almirola joins the #10, and most of the stats are basically the same, Bowyer gets slightly better stats than William Byron is getting, Kahne has won a couple of races and Harvick/Busch/Truex are dominating, in the alternate universe 2018 silly season, Kahne does not retire and will return to the #14 in 2019 and Clint Bowyer is signed on to replace Kurt Busch in the #41 and William Byron will run for ROY in 2019.

Sorry for this being long but let me know what you think about this alternate universe where Busch stays with Roush
 
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Reminds me of a thread we had a few years back called something like NASCAR headlines you wish you would see, one of mine was Bill Elliott signs to drive the 94 McDonalds Chevy for Hendrick Mototsports in 1995.

But I like anything where Kasey wins more.
 
kkfan91 said:
Reminds me of a thread we had a few years back called something like NASCAR headlines you wish you would see, one of mine was Bill Elliott signs to drive the 94 McDonalds Chevy for Hendrick Mototsports in 1995.

But I like anything where Kasey wins more.
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I like the scenario where SR. signs with Yates to drive the 88 car!!
 
kkfan91 said:
Reminds me of a thread we had a few years back called something like NASCAR headlines you wish you would see, one of mine was Bill Elliott signs to drive the 94 McDonalds Chevy for Hendrick Mototsports in 1995.

But I like anything where Kasey wins more.
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Yep. Wasn't anything but bones left after we got through beating that horse.
 
I can relate to Kyle. I always wondered how my life would had been different based on different scenarios.
If the Aliens had not broke into my house, and stole everything, who knows. The exact replicas they used to replace everything stolen was sinister and cynical too, and effort to take my soul.

That kind of hurt is why Kyle has always been so angry and hurt really bad too. The CART people put the sinister voodoo hurt on Kyle and re programmed a happy go lucky young man to the hurt hyperventilating "everything's great" really hurt bad Kyle.
That's why then damn CART went down too.
 
downnice said:
2001 Kyle Busch made his NASCAR debut in the #99 Eldron Roush car running six races and getting two top 10 finishes, however at Auto Club the truck series was running the same day as the CART race which was sponsored by Marlboro and CART complained to NASCAR and Busch was pulled from the race and NASCAR change the rules for where someone under 18 can not compete in a top 3 series until I think Erik Jones or Chase Elliott (if anyone knows when they changed it back please tell me) In 2003 Kyle Busch left Roush for Hendrick and the rest is history, so what if NASCAR did not change the rules and Kyle Busch stayed at Roush.

During this timeline I will keep stats blah, blah, blah....
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In the realm of revisionist history, this really ain't no big deal... we have posts on here about Daytona 500's and Cup Championships won by Mark Martin, and other stuff people just make up.. :idunno:
 
LewTheShoe said:
In the realm of revisionist history, this really ain't no big deal... we have posts on here about Daytona 500's and Cup Championships won by Mark Martin, and other stuff people just make up.. :idunno:
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What if nobody had passed pole winner Loy Allen Jr during the Daytona 500....
 
LewTheShoe said:
In the realm of revisionist history, this really ain't no big deal... we have posts on here about Daytona 500's and Cup Championships won by Mark Martin, and other stuff people just make up.. :idunno:
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To be fair I also in my post I do sneak a Mark Martin Daytona 500 win in there =p
 
I'm not sure what KB being pulled from a race has to do with him leaving Roush. Bueller?

Jack Roush didn't want to put with KB's tantrums anymore.
Rick Hendrick didn't want to put with KB's tantrums anymore.
Joe Gibbs was the only guy who would, and KB helped make JGR even better.
 
FenderBumper said:
I'm not sure what KB being pulled from a race has to do with him leaving Roush. Bueller?

Jack Roush didn't want to put with KB's tantrums anymore.
Rick Hendrick didn't want to put with KB's tantrums anymore.
Joe Gibbs was the only guy who would, and KB helped make JGR even better.
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1) I don't know that Kyle had had too many tantrums at that point. I'd say it had more to do with Jack being notoriously cheap and and being a control freak. He COULD have had Jeff Gordon, but wouldn't allow Gordon to choose his own crew chief.

2) Rick Hendrick didn't want to put up with Kyle Busch at all any more, and knew that there was a better option (for him) waiting in the wings.

3) Joe Gibbs was a NFL head coach on some super successful teams. He had more experience dealing with and co-existing with total head cases than any other NASCAR owner could ever BEGIN to have.
 
Formerjackman said:
1) I don't know that Kyle had had too many tantrums at that point. I'd say it had more to do with Jack being notoriously cheap and and being a control freak. He COULD have had Jeff Gordon, but wouldn't allow Gordon to choose his own crew chief.

2) Rick Hendrick didn't want to put up with Kyle Busch at all any more, and knew that there was a better option (for him) waiting in the wings.

3) Joe Gibbs was a NFL head coach on some super successful teams. He had more experience dealing with and co-existing with total head cases than any other NASCAR owner could ever BEGIN to have.
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Yep on 2 & 3.

I recall Jack giving an interview when Kyle was looking for a ride and he said something like "I'm not interested. I've had enough of the Busch brothers". Maybe that happened when he left HMS? :idunno:
 
Honestly, I don't remember all the details after all these years, but Kyle had SOME sort of deal with Roush, and it was my understanding that when it was time to re-up the deal after Kyle was regulated down to running ASA because of his age, , Kyle and his Dad decided to take an offer from Hendrick instead of Roush. I seem to recall that it was reported that Roush's offer was somewhat less enticing than Hendrick's offer was, which included getting him into an ARCA car on the speedways as soon as he turned 18, and then into the Busch Series shortly after. I seem to recall that Hendrick got word that contract negotiations between Kyle and Jack had hit some bumps, and that was when he made his offer. If anybody remembers more about exactly how all that shook out or has some source material for it, I would enjoy having my memory jogged. That happened during a period of my life when I was burning the candle at both ends and the middle too, plus I was hearing "rumors" of stuff at the race track that may or may NOT have always been true, so I may have some of this wrong. As for being done with the Busch Brothers, remember that this happened in 2002, so as far as I know, Kurt was still in Jack's good graces.
 
Formerjackman said:
Honestly, I don't remember all the details after all these years, but Kyle had SOME sort of deal with Roush, and it was my understanding that when it was time to re-up the deal after Kyle was regulated down to running ASA because of his age, , Kyle and his Dad decided to take an offer from Hendrick instead of Roush. I seem to recall that it was reported that Roush's offer was somewhat less enticing than Hendrick's offer was, which included getting him into an ARCA car on the speedways as soon as he turned 18, and then into the Busch Series shortly after. I seem to recall that Hendrick got word that contract negotiations between Kyle and Jack had hit some bumps, and that was when he made his offer. If anybody remembers more about exactly how all that shook out or has some source material for it, I would enjoy having my memory jogged. That happened during a period of my life when I was burning the candle at both ends and the middle too, plus I was hearing "rumors" of stuff at the race track that may or may NOT have always been true, so I may have some of this wrong. As for being done with the Busch Brothers, remember that this happened in 2002, so as far as I know, Kurt was still in Jack's good graces.
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As I recall the beef with KB's age was due to the fact that Crown Royal Booze was a major sponser of the whole truck series. Anyone else recall that? The handling of both Busch brothers was badly mangled by Jack Roush IMO. Jack essentially hired a driver he couldn't use because either he or his legal guy were too lazy to read the fine print. Rick Hendrick once again saw an opportunity to swoop in and steal a talent from the Ford camp just like he did with Jeff Gordon. As far as Kurt goes, anyone else remember how in the space of a year he went from being the reigning champ to a situation of "Jesus, I just want this guy gone!" Am I remembering all this or am I having old age moment?
 
MB12566 said:
... As far as Kurt goes, anyone else remember how in the space of a year he went from being the reigning champ to a situation of "Jesus, I just want this guy gone!" Am I remembering all this or am I having old age moment?
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To the best of my knowledge and recollection it was Kurt's decision. He signed a deal in August 2005 to join Penske in 2007. Which would have made him a lame duck at Roush for almost a season and a half through the rest of 2005 and all of 2006.
He also had an incident a with police officer during a traffic stop at the Fall 2005 Phoenix race. I dont remember the details but I am pretty sure about the time line, and that was when Roush decided enough.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/...itle-with-rousch-busch-signs-with-penske.html
 
Greg said:
To the best of my knowledge and recollection it was Kurt's decision. He signed a deal in August 2005 to join Penske in 2007. Which would have made him a lame duck at Roush for almost a season and a half through the rest of 2005 and all of 2006.
He also had an incident a with police officer during a traffic stop at the Fall 2005 Phoenix race. I dont remember the details but I am pretty sure about the time line, and that was when Roush decided enough.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/...itle-with-rousch-busch-signs-with-penske.html
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Jack sent out a release that napalmed Kurt to the tune of “we are no longer Kurt Busch apologists.” Savage.
 
Snappy D said:
Jack sent out a release that napalmed Kurt to the tune of “we are no longer Kurt Busch apologists.” Savage.
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MB12566 said:
As I recall the beef with KB's age was due to the fact that Crown Royal Booze was a major sponser of the whole truck series. Anyone else recall that? The handling of both Busch brothers was badly mangled by Jack Roush IMO. Jack essentially hired a driver he couldn't use because either he or his legal guy were too lazy to read the fine print. Rick Hendrick once again saw an opportunity to swoop in and steal a talent from the Ford camp just like he did with Jeff Gordon. As far as Kurt goes, anyone else remember how in the space of a year he went from being the reigning champ to a situation of "Jesus, I just want this guy gone!" Am I remembering all this or am I having old age moment?
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http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/ne...cle_9afc29c9-42b3-5d91-b52e-6f1af7d82b19.html
 
Snappy D said:
Jack sent out a release that napalmed Kurt to the tune of “we are no longer Kurt Busch apologists.” Savage.
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I think Jack was spot on and Kurt deserved it, and his behavior for the next 7 or 8 years validated Roush imo. Kurt was an ahole deluxe during his tenure at Penske.

I hope that is all behind him now, and he appears to have matured since leaving Penske.
 
I just stole this from Wikipedia. I can't verify 100%, but this sounds right to me. I think Roush got blindsided by the age rule, it wasn't really his fault. I'm not sure exactly what the contract situation was for Hendrick to be able to sign him, maybe somebody can fill that part of the deal in. "At the age of 16, Busch began competing in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series (now Camping World Truck Series), driving the No. 99 Ford for Roush Racing as a replacement for Nathan Haseleu, who was released midway in the 2001 season. He made his debut at Indianapolis Raceway Park,[4] posting a 9th-place finish in his first race in the series.[5] In his second race at Chicago Motor Speedway, he was leading until his truck ran out of fuel with 12 laps to go.[6]

Busch was the fastest in practice for a 2001 Craftsman Truck Series race at California Speedway in Fontana, CA, when he was informed he was not allowed to participate in events at the track, due to the fact that the CART FedEx Championship Series, running at the track the same weekend had its race sponsored by Marlboro cigarettes[7] Busch was decreed ineligible to compete due an interpretation of the Master Settlement Agreement of 1998, prohibiting people under 18 years of age in participating in events sponsored by tobacco companies;[8] Tim Woods III replaced Busch in the No. 99 Ford for the event.[7] Busch competed in a total of six races in the Truck Series in 2001, finishing ninth twice, at IRP and at Las Vegas Motor Speedway.[9]

Six weeks after the incident, NASCAR imposed a minimum age of 18 years starting in 2002 to prevent incidents of the sort from happening again;[10] this was partially because Winston was the series sponsor of its premier Winston Cup Series at the time.[11] When the age requirements were put in place, Busch switched from NASCAR to the American Speed Association (ASA) National Tour, finishing 8th in points."
 
Interesting read, but neither in your universe or any of the infinite alternate universes is Denny Hamlin a better racecar driver.
 
I didn't read all the responses to this. Had KyBusch stayed with Roush, he would have eventually left them, either by choice or run off, because he was immature and would have caused a similar rift like he did when he was with Hendrick. Add to this, that was the early stages of RFR starting a downward slide. Whether he would still land at Gibbs, who knows. His tenure at Roush would have been as short as it was with Hendrick.
 
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