What it takes to be a Champion

35 starts, 41 laps led
0 wins
4 top 5's

Yeah, that could realistically be all it takes to be a champion anymore. Yep, that's your points leader heading into the finale, one of four still in championship contention. Those are Hut Stricklin, David Reutimann, Casey Mears numbers. Worse than Juan Pablo's 2013 season.

If Newman can pull off the upset in Miami, I guess all it takes to become a champion is a season of above average/mediocre finishes, while getting lucky enough to stay out of trouble in the Chase and consistently run in the top 15.
 
Brian France will not rest until the grandstands are completely empty.
SpeedPagan said:
So, I've been looking at some of the Champions of years past, even before The Chase era. It's kind of interesting how having the most wins doesn't always nab you the Championship, even under many of the various old points system in the Winston Cup. The one that stands out is in 1996 where Gordon had the most wins, but Terry Labonte won the Championship with 2 wins. Then, you have points battle like in 2011 where Carl Edwards was the most consistent, but Tony Stewart had the most wins. Of course there was also the last pre-Chase race where Matt Kenseth won the Championship with just 1 win.

So, honestly, this lead me to the conclusion that you can't just win the Championship on wins alone, you have to get wins and be a consistent front runner.

Thoughts?
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Before and after The Chase never belong in the same paragraph. After The Chase did not require the same effort to win.
 
TooSweet said:
35 starts, 41 laps led
0 wins
4 top 5's

Yeah, that could realistically be all it takes to be a champion anymore. Yep, that's your points leader heading into the finale, one of four still in championship contention. Those are Hut Stricklin, David Reutimann, Casey Mears numbers. Worse than Juan Pablo's 2013 season.

If Newman can pull off the upset in Miami, I guess all it takes to become a champion is a season of above average/mediocre finishes, while getting lucky enough to stay out of trouble in the Chase and consistently run in the top 15.
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Points leader is Hamlin lol
 
ToyYoda said:
Hamlin's probably listed as the leader because he's first alphabetically of the final four.
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Since we are talking about names and the like. At the end of the race this past Sunday they kept showing the camera shot from up on the hill overlooking the speedway. Stuck in the ground were the flags representing the four nations that advanced, Denny Nation, Newman Nation, Harvick Nation, & Logano Nation. Any idea why it's not Hamlin Nation? Anyone?
 
FLRacingFan said:
What if the wrecks weren't caused by them? At most, one of Ryan Newman's five wreck-related DNFs in 2003 can be attributed to him.
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If you're winning a ton of races, and you lose a championship, you didn't lose it because someone wrecked you, or you just have horrible luck and have been wrecked by someone a lot.

That's exactly one of the reasons why I hate the Chase, getting caught up in someone elses wreck it a lot more costly in the Chase than it is in a season long points championship.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Since we are talking about names and the like. At the end of the race this past Sunday they kept showing the camera shot from up on the hill overlooking the speedway. Stuck in the ground were the flags representing the four nations that advanced, Denny Nation, Newman Nation, Harvick Nation, & Logano Nation. Any idea why it's not Hamlin Nation? Anyone?
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Is this a trick question? lol
 
Go Panthers said:
If you're winning a ton of races, and you lose a championship, you didn't lose it because someone wrecked you, or you just have horrible luck and have been wrecked by someone a lot.

That's exactly one of the reasons why I hate the Chase, getting caught up in someone elses wreck it a lot more costly in the Chase than it is in a season long points championship.
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Still.. shouldn't a champion be able to hold it together for 10 races when it really matters.. at the end of the season
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Since we are talking about names and the like. At the end of the race this past Sunday they kept showing the camera shot from up on the hill overlooking the speedway. Stuck in the ground were the flags representing the four nations that advanced, Denny Nation, Newman Nation, Harvick Nation, & Logano Nation. Any idea why it's not Hamlin Nation? Anyone?
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Not sure but I've noticed may times that some people use the first names of some drivers and second of others. It's not keeping me awake at night or anything but just something I've noticed. lol

SlicedBread22 said:
Still.. shouldn't a champion be able to hold it together for 10 races when it really matters.. at the end of the season
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We wont know until Sunday night. Hamlin hasn't held it together for 10 races as he blew it out the water 9 races ago.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Still.. shouldn't a champion be able to hold it together for 10 races when it really matters.. at the end of the season
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As a driver, you are only in control of your car. "Holding it together" is 10% driver 90% luck that you dont have a mechanical failure, run over debris, or have some idiot plow into you.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
It takes more than just finishing on the lead lap to win a championship. LOL. And how many people can honestly say that they really pay attention to stuff like the driver rating stat? I don't. I always just assume that Jimmie Johnson has the highest rating. Ha ha.

Anyway, we can sit here and debate this forever, but at the end of the day, it won't change the rules or the record books, so ultimately this is a fruitless endeavor. You have your opinion, I have mine, the dude that created the NASCAR points system has his, and we'll all just agree to disagree and leave it that. :cheers:
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Right, but how many times have seen Driver A, with significantly better numbers than Driver B, finish behind Driver B in the championship because B had a ridiculous number of races finished or lead lap finishes or something like that, despite being otherwise unspectacular? Any system in which you accumulate more points finishing 10th every race than you would for winning twenty-five races and finishing last in the other eleven is flawed. I don't understand the big "muh consistency" kick NASCAR fans are on unless they're talking about consistently doing well. I would argue that Joey Logano has been the most consistent driver this season seeing that he has the most Top 5s, most Top 10s, has the second-most wins, the second-best average finish, and has led the fourth-most laps but most people would point towards a winless driver if asked to name who they think is most consistent. Overall, I'm just tired of this fascination with what could actually be described as perpetual mediocrity. It's bizarre.

Anyways, sorry for the big block of text and thanks for not having to resort to drivel. Cheers.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Right, but how many times have seen Driver A, with significantly better numbers than Driver B, finish behind Driver B in the championship because B had a ridiculous number of races finished or lead lap finishes or something like that, despite being otherwise unspectacular? Any system in which you accumulate more points finishing 10th every race than you would for winning twenty-five races and finishing last in the other eleven is flawed. I don't understand the big "muh consistency" kick NASCAR fans are on unless they're talking about consistently doing well. I would argue that Joey Logano has been the most consistent driver this season seeing that he has the most Top 5s, most Top 10s, has the second-most wins, the second-best average finish, and has led the fourth-most laps but most people would point towards a winless driver if asked to name who they think is most consistent. Overall, I'm just tired of this fascination with what could actually be described as perpetual mediocrity. It's bizarre.

Anyways, sorry for the big block of text and thanks for not having to resort to drivel. Cheers.
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As much as those wins count, so should the last place finishes.....
 
@FLRacingFan, by the same token, I could say that I don't understand the "winning is everything" kick that some fans are on. But honestly, they just have a different way of looking at racing than I and other folks do. Neither side is right or wrong. Just different.

I'm just a purist when it comes to racing. Winning championships in racing has always traditionally been about consistency, not just winning a bunch of races, which is why I have the opinion that I have. And no, not just finishing on the lead lap or in the top 30. LOL. I mean finishing consistently well, as you put it. I think our definition of "well" may be different, and that's the crux of our civil disagreement. :)
 
The solution remains a simple one . Trophy for the regular season , use any points system you want . Trophy for the playoffs , use any system you want . At the banquet , big finish , an overall season championship chosen by the sportswriters by secret ballot , given to the driver who (in their opinion) had the best overall year . Chase people keep their chase . Traditionalist people keep their regular season . Suspense filled climax all the way to the awards banquet.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
It doesn't matter if its luck or not... you can't have a bad race... that doesn't mean its your fault or in your control.. if every race were in the drivers hands they would all get a win every week.
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To eliminate some of the luck factor, I'd like to see them implement @ToyYoda 's idea of carrying over bonus points into each round. If winning is truly supposed to be rewarded I think it's a great idea and it makes the regular season even more meaningful. At that point I really wouldn't have much of a beef.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Since we are talking about names and the like. At the end of the race this past Sunday they kept showing the camera shot from up on the hill overlooking the speedway. Stuck in the ground were the flags representing the four nations that advanced, Denny Nation, Newman Nation, Harvick Nation, & Logano Nation. Any idea why it's not Hamlin Nation? Anyone?
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roflbot-0wVE.jpg
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Since we are talking about names and the like. At the end of the race this past Sunday they kept showing the camera shot from up on the hill overlooking the speedway. Stuck in the ground were the flags representing the four nations that advanced, Denny Nation, Newman Nation, Harvick Nation, & Logano Nation. Any idea why it's not Hamlin Nation? Anyone?
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I felt like I was the only one that notices stupid **** like that. What is wrong with Hamlin Nation? It's just as dumb as all the other nations. I'm slightly OCD I guess but it drove me crazy for a couple days after they unveiled all the 'nations' and I saw that they used his first name and literally everyone else's last name. lol.
 
Carl, Jimmie, and Brad all had their first names used as well. Hamlin is an ugly name so good on them. Johnson Nation sounds like a gay establishment, etc.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
It doesn't matter if its luck or not... you can't have a bad race... that doesn't mean its your fault or in your control.. if every race were in the drivers hands they would all get a win every week.
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It'd be interesting to see how you feel in a few years when Logano cant even crack the top 15 in points. We'll see how much water your "then dont have a bad race" and "that's racing" comment hold up to.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Carl, Jimmie, and Brad all had their first names used as well. Hamlin is an ugly name so good on them. Johnson Nation sounds like a gay establishment, etc.
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Apparently I'm not that OCD because I didn't notice the other first names. LMAO why the hell did Denny Nation stand out to me?

Johnson Nation does sound gay AF.
 
Reck said:
It'd be interesting to see how you feel in a few years when Logano cant even crack the top 15 in points. We'll see how much water your "then dont have a bad race" and "that's racing" comment hold up to.
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What?

How is that even an argument? lol
 
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