Who Will Replace Jr in the 88/25 Car?

What is so attractive about HMS?? Two out of four cars have their act together and the other two are out of the top 15. Everyone talks about a power house but remember the engine is only part of the package. Larson makes the HMS engine look good but I give the credit to the driver and car.
 
Team Penske said:
What is so attractive about HMS?? Two out of four cars have their act together and the other two are out of the top 15. Everyone talks about a power house but remember the engine is only part of the package. Larson makes the HMS engine look good but I give the credit to the driver and car.
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Resources, resources, resources. (Money and sponsor attraction)

- HMS
- JGR/FRR
- Penske/Wood Brothers
- SHR
- CGR
- RCR/Germain/JTG
- Roush
- Petty
- Everyone else
 
aunty dive said:
So ... loyalty is over-rated?
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That's a great question. I think fans like loyalty. I like loyalty (see Kyle and his commitment to Toyota). However, this is a business, and as such, a driver (or any entity in the sport for that matter) has to be able to make hard decisions. IF that ride was offered to Kyle, he would have a tough decision to make. That decision would get more difficulty IMO given that part of the product that Kyle presents to us is his very respectable story of loyalty to Chip. He has put himself in a position to about face on that product (image) IF he was given a shot at the 88. IMO the only people who needed to know about Kyle's loyalty to Chip were Kyle and Chip. Kyle Larson in that car at this time would change the face of NASCAR in a very short period of time IMO.
 
Kiante said:
Resources, resources, resources. (Money and sponsor attraction)

- HMS
- JGR/FRR
- Penske/Wood Brothers
- SHR
- CGR
- RCR/Germain/JTG
- Roush
- Petty
- Everyone else
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Who put that list together? How did they come to those results?
It is bogus, believe me Penske is way ahead of JGR. His deals go deep and are tied
to his other companies.
 
Simple Fan said:
I just dont see it in Bowman. I like the guy and think hes a decent driver but thats it. He definitely over performed in lower tier equipment and was ok in his 88 run but 1 pole doesnt really show me anything. He's like a poor mans Paul Menard in my opinion and I think HMS is above that. Feel like he thinks he's better than what he really is as well due to his relationship with Hendrick.
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I am going to agree here. No issue with Bowman, but I think that the hype was big last year when he outperformed Gordon. Then, he had a great run in Phoenix which sealed the perception. If I was Hendrick, I would be running at Larson---hard. Very hard. Like camping in his front yard hard. I have not heard an interview with David Wilson about TRD's driver development program where the loss of Larson from he Toyota camp was not lamented. This kid is something.
 
Kiante said:
Kyle Busch would have been kicked to the curb... Coach knew he can drive the holy living sh!t out of racecar, so he stuck his neck out to make sure Mars didn't leave him.

So, yes loyalty is overrated.;)
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I think that Coach believed in Kyle the person first. I really do. Of course, wheeling the thing was crucial, but I do believe that Coach felt that Kyle could evolve into what Mars was looking for, and fit the culture of JGR. He was right. Yup, loyalty was crucial here, but I also think that the commitment between the two has been pretty private. Additionally, the relationship between Kyle and TRD/Toyota has been pretty private. All of this privacy is for good reason. This is a business, and if the relationship needs to end for any reason, it would be more trouble than it is worth to explain why--and this explanation is important from the perspective of fan perception IMO.
 
Revman said:
That's a great question. I think fans like loyalty. I like loyalty (see Kyle and his commitment to Toyota). However, this is a business, and as such, a driver (or any entity in the sport for that matter) has to be able to make hard decisions. IF that ride was offered to Kyle, he would have a tough decision to make. That decision would get more difficulty IMO given that part of the product that Kyle presents to us is his very respectable story of loyalty to Chip. He has put himself in a position to about face on that product (image) IF he was given a shot at the 88. IMO the only people who needed to know about Kyle's loyalty to Chip were Kyle and Chip. Kyle Larson in that car at this time would change the face of NASCAR in a very short period of time IMO.
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Great response.

Larson's desire to compete in The Indianapolis 500 is well documented here but I doubt that many understand how important that is to him, given his background. NASCAR and stock car racing in general would derive more benefit from a competitive drive at Indy by one of its stars than it would having Larson become another face in a long list of faces at HMS.

JMO of course.
 
I can see raiding the manufactures competition but why would HMS raid their own customer within the GM ranks?
 
Team Penske said:
I can see raiding the manufactures competition but why would HMS raid their own customer within the GM ranks?
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From a manufacturer's perspective, certainly. However, IMO these teams still operate as their own entities. Although so much is shared between JGR and FRR for example, I do believe that there is a distinct difference between being a member JGR compared to FRR. Additionally, Hendrick is the face of Chevy. Period---A ride there > a Chevy ride anywhere else. Same thing with JGR and Toyota IMO.
 
Revman said:
From a manufacturer's perspective, certainly. However, IMO these teams still operate as their own entities. Although so much is shared between JGR and FRR for example, I do believe that there is a distinct difference between being a member JGR compared to FRR. Additionally, Hendrick is the face of Chevy. Period---A ride there > a Chevy ride anywhere else. Same thing with JGR and Toyota IMO.
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The sharing between JGR and FRR seems to be corporate talk only, not on the technical side.
 
Revman said:
Honestly, I think that Larson screwed himself with his statements of loyalty to Chip. IMO he is tied to Chip forever, or ends up looking bad. Larson to the 88 would be a game changer. Huge. Larson wheeling a Hendrick powered and tuned car? With those resources? H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T!
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Larson driving a Hendrick car doesn't guarantee success. Remember Logano with JGR and McMurray with Roush?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Or Kyle Busch with Hendrick? That wasn't the best fit. :oops:
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I didn't include him because he had some success with Hendrick. He wrecked a lot of cars but he won 2 races as a rookie and a few more races in the next 2 years. He just wasn't a good fit at Hendrick because of his attitude.
 
Revman said:
Honestly, I think that Larson screwed himself with his statements of loyalty to Chip. IMO he is tied to Chip forever, or ends up looking bad. Larson to the 88 would be a game changer. Huge. Larson wheeling a Hendrick powered and tuned car? With those resources? H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T!
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Please. If Dale Jr can leave the company his father started, Larson can leave Chip. If Larson ever opened the idea of leaving CGR, Im sure Chip respects him and his talents enough to oblige.

Larson has got a great team & consistent equipment this season. If that falters in the years to come, heads may roll.
 
If Larson has fulfilled his contract with Ganassi he owes it to himself to see what other options he has and if he is dying to run the Indy 500 Ganassi is not the only person that can make that happen. I am not sure why loyalty is even in the conversation as keeping promises and fulfilling obligations are no longer that important and in this case it is just business anyway.

If Larson becomes available and I am Gene Haas I am going to move mountains to sign the kid as he would immediately become the top dog at SHR. Move out Kurt or Princess Sparkle Pony to make room. If I am in charge of TRD I am putting on the full court press to get Larson as he moves to the top of the list in that organization due to age and success. Add another team with FRR or get rid of the kid in the 19 or cut loose Truex, Hamlin or Kenseth if necessary. Penske would be advised to go after the kid and either add another team or let Blaney go and at this point HMS probably needs Larson more than he needs them so it would be prudent for Larson to at least listen to what is available to him.
 
Team Penske said:
Who put that list together? How did they come to those results?
It is bogus, believe me Penske is way ahead of JGR. His deals go deep and are tied
to his other companies.
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Penske can't even fund a developmental ride in Xfinity. Gibbs has 4 cup teams, plus FRR as a satellite team, and 3 teams in Xfinity and if you count KBm who they give motors too 3 rides in the truck series, and they now have an ARCA team lol
 
Revman said:
I am going to agree here. No issue with Bowman, but I think that the hype was big last year when he outperformed Gordon. Then, he had a great run in Phoenix which sealed the perception. If I was Hendrick, I would be running at Larson---hard. Very hard. Like camping in his front yard hard. I have not heard an interview with David Wilson about TRD's driver development program where the loss of Larson from he Toyota camp was not lamented. This kid is something.
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Rev, you know in some states you could be arrested for that. "sorry I couldn't resist I really tried to".:D
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Please. If Dale Jr can leave the company his father started, Larson can leave Chip. If Larson ever opened the idea of leaving CGR, Im sure Chip respects him and his talents enough to oblige.

Larson has got a great team & consistent equipment this season. If that falters in the years to come, heads may roll.
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Driver/owner dynamic is way different here though. I don't think anyone could've blamed Jr. for wanting to get away from that environment.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Driver/owner dynamic is way different here though. I don't think anyone could've blamed Jr. for wanting to get away from that environment.
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Marcingak said:
Jr never said he was going to stay loyal to his dad's team. Totally different situation.
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While certainly true, I was coming from an emotional attachment standpoint. Quick decisions are made when the talent surpasses the equipment.
 
Revman said:
I agree, and over time, where would you want to be?
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DaBiff1618 said:
Penske can't even fund a developmental ride in Xfinity. Gibbs has 4 cup teams, plus FRR as a satellite team, and 3 teams in Xfinity and if you count KBm who they give motors too 3 rides in the truck series, and they now have an ARCA team lol
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By choice...... Mr Penske could buy Mr gibbs and most of the cup garage.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Please. If Dale Jr can leave the company his father started, Larson can leave Chip. If Larson ever opened the idea of leaving CGR, Im sure Chip respects him and his talents enough to oblige.

Larson has got a great team & consistent equipment this season. If that falters in the years to come, heads may roll.
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By the time Jr. left, it wasn't his father's team anymore.
 
The Carl Edwards denials of interest have been particularly lukewarm... non-denials, actually. I tend to think Carl is done with driving, but wouldn't really be surprised if he does return.

I keep waiting for Team Penske to announce a contract renewal with Brad Keselowski. At this point, it is 6 months overdue. Miller Brewing is under new corporate control since their last contract renewal. And I know how corporate acquisitions always lead to intense scrutiny of every budget line item.

Matt Kenseth is also a free agent for 2018, hoping to renew with Gibbs but it's not done yet....
 
LewTheShoe said:
The Carl Edwards denials of interest have been particularly lukewarm... non-denials, actually. I tend to think Carl is done with driving, but wouldn't really be surprised if he does return.

I keep waiting for Team Penske to announce a contract renewal with Brad Keselowski. At this point, it is 6 months overdue. Miller Brewing is under new corporate control since their last contract renewal. And I know how corporate acquisitions always lead to intense scrutiny of every budget line item.

Matt Kenseth is also a free agent for 2018, hoping to renew with Gibbs but it's not done yet....
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I hope this Brad deal gets done soon....but Matt you could be on to something there....
 
To those saying Hendrick wouldn't let Larson run sprint car races, Kasey Kahne runs several every year.
 
Nitro Dude said:
Rev, you know in some states you could be arrested for that. "sorry I couldn't resist I really tried to".:D
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LOL. Some things you just can't unsay.....but you probably should. Context is a bitch. :D

ChexOrWrex said:
Please. If Dale Jr can leave the company his father started, Larson can leave Chip. If Larson ever opened the idea of leaving CGR, Im sure Chip respects him and his talents enough to oblige.

Larson has got a great team & consistent equipment this season. If that falters in the years to come, heads may roll.
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That company was nothing without Sr. and everybody knows that--including Jr.
You have a different perception of Chip than I do.
Larson's equipment does not compare to what Hendrick could give him.

Skoalbandit33 said:
If I am in charge of TRD I am putting on the full court press to get Larson as he moves to the top of the list in that organization due to age and success.
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As much as Toyota would like to have Larson back, I think that ship has sailed. Credit Kyle's leaving for the creation of the TRD Driver Development Program. Pretty sure that Erik Jones wouldn't be in the fold without him, honestly.
 
aunty dive said:
Sure it does ... and Gannasi is catching up on the engineering side. Larson? Final four.

JMO, of course.
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As of right now. What about over time? Hendrick won the whole damn thing on an off year. Can Ganassi keep pace with Hendrick year in and year out? The case could be made IMO that the 88 seat is the best seat in NASCAR. I cannot argue that Larson is Final Four worthy.
 
Revman said:
As of right now. What about over time? Hendrick won the whole damn thing on an off year. Can Ganassi keep pace with Hendrick year in and year out? The case could be made IMO that the 88 seat is the best seat in NASCAR. I cannot argue that Larson is Final Four worthy.
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HMS did win in an off year and there's no way to know if Gannasi can keep this up. That's why you and I watch.

My guess is he'll go for 2 or 3 more key people to help with the keepin' up. There are more and better other racing opportunities for Larson if he stays where he is. I think that matters to him. We will see.
 
Fordracing7 said:
I hope this Brad deal gets done soon....but Matt you could be on to something there....
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Well if HMS wants to still have the best plate track driver then moving mountains to get Brad might be an option. There's something to be said for being a favorite going into the Daytona 500 every year. Still, just like with Larson and Kyle Busch Mr. H burned that bridge a long time ago.
 
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