2016 New Hampshire - New England 300 - Pre Race Thread

True NASCAR racing is lapping lapped cars and produces fine racing with multiple passes every lap. A track does not need to be banked for this to happen.
 
4tires17gals said:
True NASCAR racing is lapping lapped cars and produces fine racing with multiple passes every lap. A track does not need to be banked for this to happen.
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A banked track is more conducive to what you describe as "fine racing." Ask......literally anyone.
 
Acs said:
So pretty much just an asphalt Dover then?
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I believe the corners are significantly tighter than Dover (and thus the straightaways longer). I also wonder if the straights could be kept more flat than Dover (I think I remember Dover having 9 degrees on the straights), making the transition off the banking more dramatic like at Texas. I know this is probably a pipe-dream, but Kentucky modeled Darlington with their repave so who knows!
 
Plus, you get a New England crowd, and the New England vibe with the fans and area.

I'll be there, anyone else gonna be there?
 
Speedbowl14 said:
I would like to see some more progressive banking...but please keep the flat nature of the track. It's very different and cool. The turns are incredibly sharp combined with the long straights and this track really is a speedway-short track hybrid.
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Yup, the only thing that makes it more of a short track are the flat corners.

I wish they would add 5-10 degrees of banking there
 
If you bank NHMS the tire ware would be way too much. Look at the Bristol disasters.
 
Anyone who's camping- temps will drop into the upper 30s Saturday and Sunday nights.

Sunday afternoon will be a crisp New England 60 degree day.
 
jaqua19 said:
Yup, the only thing that makes it more of a short track are the flat corners.

I wish they would add 5-10 degrees of banking there
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I mean we're all just speculating since no substantive changes are coming to the track any time soon. If Bruton is going to spend the many millions needed to reconfigure any track I think most fans would hope it's Bristol. That leaves small changes like tires or VHT or maybe an aero package tweak.

What I find interesting is the comparison between the 5 flat (less than 10 degrees banking) tracks that they visit 9 times, the perception that most of them produce boring racing and trying to figure out why that is.
 
Acs said:
the 5 flat (less than 10 degrees banking) tracks that they visit 9 times,
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oooo good trivia question. I found a sixth track for a total of 11 races.

NHMS x 2 races
Turns – Variable banking at 2/7 degrees (12% grade)
Straightaways – 1 degree banking

Martinsville x 2 races
Turns 12°
Straights 0°

Indy x 1 race
Turns: 9.2°
Straights: 0°

Pocono x 2 races
Turn 1: 14°
Turn 2: 8°
Turn 3: 6°

Richmond x 2 races
14° in turns
8° on frontstretch
2° on backstretch

Phoenix x 2 races
Turns 1 & 2: 10–11°
Dogleg: 10–11°
Turn 3: 8°
Turn 4: 8–9°
Backstretch: 10°, 8°
Frontstretch: 3°
 
LouieLouie said:
oooo good trivia question. I found a sixth track for a total of 11 races.

NHMS x 2 races
Turns – Variable banking at 2/7 degrees (12% grade)
Straightaways – 1 degree banking

Martinsville x 2 races
Turns 12°
Straights 0°

Indy x 1 race
Turns: 9.2°
Straights: 0°

Pocono x 2 races
Turn 1: 14°
Turn 2: 8°
Turn 3: 6°

Richmond x 2 races
14° in turns
8° on frontstretch
2° on backstretch

Phoenix x 2 races
Turns 1 & 2: 10–11°
Dogleg: 10–11°
Turn 3: 8°
Turn 4: 8–9°
Backstretch: 10°, 8°
Frontstretch: 3°
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Umm Richmond has 14 degree banked turns, so I wouldn't call it a flat track. That's like calling Fontana a flat track as it also has 14 degree banking.
 
with the punctures in march at BMS and the best racing comes from lapped traffic not tire wear. a car racing to stay on the lead lap is just as exciting as a a race for 7th place, the lapped car would even be shown on TV because it is by the leader
 
4tires17gals said:
If you bank NHMS the tire ware would be way too much. Look at the Bristol disasters.
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4tires17gals said:
with the punctures in march at BMS and the best racing comes from lapped traffic not tire wear. a car racing to stay on the lead lap is just as exciting as a a race for 7th place, the lapped car would even be shown on TV because it is by the leader
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Yes because Bristol has been forever known for tire failures....
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IMO 350 laps at that track is more than enough.
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I'd like to see the spring Phoenix race be a 250 lap/400 KM sprint race personally. While we're at it let's see a Texas race get shortened to 400.

As far as flat tracks go, Pocono has been pretty good since the repave IMO. Phoenix didn't need changed. NHMS is fine as is even though I think there are better tracks.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Would those punctures be the result of debris on the track? Yeah, I decided to go there.
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The consensus among many is that the cut tires are managed / manipulated by NASHCASH.

This theory, like many others, is supported by large volume tin-foil sales and the fact that the employee turn-over rate for NASHCASH and all of its teams has maintained a zero % rate for many years.
 
aunty dive said:
The consensus among many is that the cut tires are managed / manipulated by NASHCASH.

This theory, like many others, is supported by large volume tin-foil sales and the fact that the employee turn-over rate for NASHCASH and all of its teams has maintained a zero % rate for many years.
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I prefer the Non-Stick version myself. That way when I take off my hat there's very little resistance. That and it works great for reheating wings after Wing Night at the local beer garden.

14725934
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
14725934
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Never touch the stuff myself. That anti-stick property amplifies the incoming radiation waves AND the outgoing brain waves. It makes it easier for NASCAR and the gubmint to influence and monitor your every waking thought AND inject their subliminal propaganda into your dreams.

It's true! I read it on the Internet.
 
Note: All times are ET
FRIDAY, SEPT. 23:

ON TRACK: New Hampshire
-- 11:30 a.m.-12:55 p.m.: NASCAR Sprint Cup Series first practice, NBCSN/NBC Sports App (Follow live)
-- 1:30-2:25 p.m.: NASCAR Camping World Truck Series first practice, FS1 (Follow live)
-- 3:30-4:25 p.m.: NASCAR Camping World Truck Series final practice, FS1 (Follow live)
-- 4:45 p.m.: NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Coors Light Pole Qualifying, NBCSN/NBC Sports App (Follow live)

GARAGECAM: New Hampshire
-- 11 a.m.: NASCAR Sprint Cup Series (Watch live)
-- 1 p.m. NASCAR Camping World Truck Series (Watch live)

PRESS CONFERENCES (Watch live)
—10:15 a.m.: Joey Logano
—10:30 a.m.: Matt Kenseth
—11 a.m.: John Hunter Nemechek
—11:15 a.m.: William Byron
—1:05 p.m.: Carl Edwards
—3 p.m.: Austin Dillon

—5:30 p.m.(approximately): NASCAR Sprint Cup Series post qualifying press conference

ON TRACK: Kentucky
-- 3:30-4:25 p.m.: NASCAR XFINITY Series first practice, NBCSN/NBC Sports App (Follow live)
-- 6-7:25 p.m.: NASCAR XFINITY Series final practice, NBCSN/NBC Sports App (Follow live)
 
Acs said:
I mean we're all just speculating since no substantive changes are coming to the track any time soon. If Bruton is going to spend the many millions needed to reconfigure any track I think most fans would hope it's Bristol. That leaves small changes like tires or VHT or maybe an aero package tweak.

What I find interesting is the comparison between the 5 flat (less than 10 degrees banking) tracks that they visit 9 times, the perception that most of them produce boring racing and trying to figure out why that is.
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Wholeheartedly agree . Nascar fans need to fight to protect the diversity these tracks bring to the schedule . Racing in the big leagues has to be a test of skill , both in car preparation an in driving skill . Short tracks , road courses , mid sized ovals , super speedways and flat tracks all play a valuable part .
 
@StewartHaasRcng

Kurt and Kyle Busch will race with heavy hearts this weekend as they mourn the passing of their grandmother Joann

CtDEtAeXgAASD2v.jpg:large
 
ted@economy said:
Wholeheartedly agree . Nascar fans need to fight to protect the diversity these tracks bring to the schedule . Racing in the big leagues has to be a test of skill , both in car preparation an in driving skill . Short tracks , road courses , mid sized ovals , super speedways and flat tracks all play a valuable part .
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Yes, spending the money to reconfigure these tracks over others would take away more uniqueness from the schedule and move us closer to a cookie cutter series. However something has to be done or the calls to lose dates will only get louder. I've been thinking about this more and I have a theory as to why "the racing sucks" at these 5 flat tracks, maybe you all can hear me out. TL;DR, I think it's the heavy braking going into the turns that makes them so completely bottom-groove dominant and thus hard to pass at.

Disclaimers: The 5 flat tracks are Martinsville, Loudon, Phoenix, Pocono and Indy. "Flat" is defined as having banking less than 10 degrees and yes I know that Phoenix and Pocono have a few corners that are greater than that at the top.

Ok, back to the theory. Of those 5 I think we would all agree that Phoenix and Martinsville put on the best racing despite being flat. This makes sense, because the banking at Phoenix is enough that you don't need to brake nearly as hard and at least have the option of running a line that avoids it altogether. Martinsville nobody cares about it being heavily single bottom groove because that's just short-track racing and the bump n run is an option there. The three other tracks fall in the middle. Why I think that heavy braking is the issue, besides it being the main common denominator, is because it all occurs in the same place. That is, say at Loudon in order to make the turn you must start braking before you even enter the turn regardless of whether you are hugging the apron or 30 feet off it. The same goes for Pocono and Indy in the center of the corner, there's just no opportunity for competitors to vary their relative speeds based on the racing line. Contrast this with a high-banked intermediate track where on the low line you can go through the first 1/3rd of the corner on the throttle, lift for the middle 3rd and get back on the power through the last 3rd of the corner; while at the same time the top grove can lift through the first 1/3rd of the corner and power through the rest. This seems to apply whether progressive banking is present or not. The new low-downforce aero package lengthens those off-throttle times and created even more overlap where cars are moving at greater relative speeds and can then clear each other cleanly. None of that really happens at these flat tracks. To pass you have to hope the guy in front misses their braking point or doesn't get down far enough that they wash up the track enough for you to get under them. Taking it 2 wide doesn't work.

So what can be done about it? To be honest I don't know, but this post is already getting too long so I'll come back with some thoughts in a bit.
 
Funny, both Larson and Chase ended last weekend by saying this was not their best track, and there they sit atop the chart of practice 1. Now let's carry this thru the weekend boys!
 
Acs said:
Yes, spending the money to reconfigure these tracks over others would take away more uniqueness from the schedule and move us closer to a cookie cutter series. However something has to be done or the calls to lose dates will only get louder. I've been thinking about this more and I have a theory as to why "the racing sucks" at these 5 flat tracks, maybe you all can hear me out. TL;DR, I think it's the heavy braking going into the turns that makes them so completely bottom-groove dominant and thus hard to pass at.

Disclaimers: The 5 flat tracks are Martinsville, Loudon, Phoenix, Pocono and Indy. "Flat" is defined as having banking less than 10 degrees and yes I know that Phoenix and Pocono have a few corners that are greater than that at the top.

Ok, back to the theory. Of those 5 I think we would all agree that Phoenix and Martinsville put on the best racing despite being flat. This makes sense, because the banking at Phoenix is enough that you don't need to brake nearly as hard and at least have the option of running a line that avoids it altogether. Martinsville nobody cares about it being heavily single bottom groove because that's just short-track racing and the bump n run is an option there. The three other tracks fall in the middle. Why I think that heavy braking is the issue, besides it being the main common denominator, is because it all occurs in the same place. That is, say at Loudon in order to make the turn you must start braking before you even enter the turn regardless of whether you are hugging the apron or 30 feet off it. The same goes for Pocono and Indy in the center of the corner, there's just no opportunity for competitors to vary their relative speeds based on the racing line. Contrast this with a high-banked intermediate track where on the low line you can go through the first 1/3rd of the corner on the throttle, lift for the middle 3rd and get back on the power through the last 3rd of the corner; while at the same time the top grove can lift through the first 1/3rd of the corner and power through the rest. This seems to apply whether progressive banking is present or not. The new low-downforce aero package lengthens those off-throttle times and created even more overlap where cars are moving at greater relative speeds and can then clear each other cleanly. None of that really happens at these flat tracks. To pass you have to hope the guy in front misses their braking point or doesn't get down far enough that they wash up the track enough for you to get under them. Taking it 2 wide doesn't work.

So what can be done about it? To be honest I don't know, but this post is already getting too long so I'll come back with some thoughts in a bit.
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For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with the racing at Loudon or Pocono. Pocono has an advantage over Indy in that it's a lot wider. Cars can spread out, esp. on the front, draft, 'Conga line', slingshot, etc. Yeah, they have to get back single file by Turn 1, but there's a lot of action as they try to sort out who's going to lead going into the turn.

The only hope for Indy is to run the road course.
 
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