What's more important, the car or the driver?

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Put so and so in Jimmie's car and he too could win the race. Is that true or if you put Jimmie in someone else's car would he win? Which is more important, car or driver?
 
My feeling is the car is more important. There's some good drivers that are mid pack racers only because they don't have equipment to run closer to front. If they were put in Jimmy Johnson car I am sure some of these drivers would be much better. And in the same breath put Johnson in some of the mid pack car I am sure he would not do as well. Fact of live the the car and crew is a VERY big part of racing. The driver is just a cog in the whole team. The driver gets the spotlight but take away the car and the special team and the driver is nothing.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Put so and so in Jimmie's car and he too could win the race. Is that true or if you put Jimmie in someone else's car would he win? Which is more important, car or driver?
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You need a little if both. But lets sat you pur Danica in the 48 and Jimmie in 10. Jimmie could still drive to victory but Danica still won't come close. But if you put Johnson in Josh Wises car he probably won't be up there cause of failures. I'm gonna say you need both but probably driver more
 
Jimmie was an mediocre driver with only one win before he got into the 48 with Chad... In my opinion it's 80% car and crew 20% driver.
 
pistolshooter said:
My feeling is the car is more important. There's some good drivers that are mid pack racers only because they don't have equipment to run closer to front. If they were put in Jimmy Johnson car I am sure some of these drivers would be much better. And in the same breath put Johnson in some of the mid pack car I am sure he would not do as well. Fact of live the the car and crew is a VERY big part of racing. The driver is just a cog in the whole team. The driver gets the spotlight but take away the car and the special team and the driver is nothing.
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Agreed. Remember at the fall Richmond race last year when Jimmie was struggling to keep in the top 20? The car was horrible.

A great driver in a horrible car would more than likely end with a horrible finish. The again, a bad driver in a great car could end with a horrible finish.
 
pistolshooter said:
My feeling is the car is more important. There's some good drivers that are mid pack racers only because they don't have equipment to run closer to front. If they were put in Jimmy Johnson car I am sure some of these drivers would be much better. And in the same breath put Johnson in some of the mid pack car I am sure he would not do as well. Fact of live the the car and crew is a VERY big part of racing. The driver is just a cog in the whole team. The driver gets the spotlight but take away the car and the special team and the driver is nothing.
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/thread
 
They tried this, it was called IROC and it wasn't all that great. It's the sum of the Whole that makes it all work The driver is the QB but he still needs talent around him to make the game plan work.
 
NO I think the driver is way more important than people think. what happened when regan smith left the 78 car and kurt got into it?? whats happened in the 42 car since juan left, whats happend in the 20 car since joey left?? You have to have a good driver to be able to expose weakness in the team and car. Just like kurt found out the pit crew could not keep up with his talent in the 78 car. by the same token what happened when you put vickers and mears in hendrick cars, NOTHING. Without a good driver you have no idea if your cars are good or not. This is why I always say gnassasi cars are better than most think they are.

So that brings us to JJ and the 48, I am a fan of JJ but I am also an admirer of chad knaus. I think with that team there is a perfect storm of talent jimmie is an amazing driver. IMO chad is the best CC thats ever been look for info out there on him, look at the culture of the people that work on the 48 car, heck they get in trouble for untucked shirts while they are working on the car. Chad eats sleeps and breaths the 48 car, he has no life but the 48 car. I was at prerace in vegas down by the cars I watched chad and how he acted around the team and car. that guy was seriously focused, nervous, and all in. I looked around at other CC's paul wolfe was near by, kenseth's CC, all of them seemed relaxed in comparison. so in the case of the 48 car its EVERYTHING together.
 
more like the chicken and egg story, bawk. Depends on the car the driver, the track, and racing luck. I think at the Nascar level, generally a good driver will do better in a slower car than the lesser skilled driver, but it would not be as easy for a lesser skilled driver to do better in a faster car. Nascar competition is so tight at the top that only a sleight change in the car can make a big difference. Years ago I watched a top dirt track driver at the local track jump into a back markers car and win with it. In lower levels of racing the driver makes more of a difference IMO. At the Nascar level, it is more of a combination of the whole team.
 
when Regan Smith left, the 78's car owner threw a lot more money in his racing program. Same for the Ganassi bunch, they got out of their alliance with DEH end of last year, have hired new crew chiefs and key personel, and both Larson and McMurray are running better. Joey going to Penske in their first year with Ford didn't do that well they didn't have the CAR. Now in the second year both he and Brad are doing just fine with another year of car development. Right now Kenseth's old Roush team mate is in the chase and so is Joey..go figure.... this chicken and the egg stuff can go on forever..:rolleyes:
 
I think it has a lot more to do with how the crew chief and driver communicate than either the car or the driver. The crew chief makes the car faster by listening to the driver. So if they work well together then more often than not they'll have the car they need.

I look at the driver, crew chief and the car like the three legs on a tripod... one weak leg and the whole thing will fall when you put some pressure on it.
 
I say the driver, and iRacing does a good job of backing this up. For the fixed races (everyone with the same setup) the people who stay out of trouble, race smart, give and take, can wheel it very well and that throttle control are always in the top 5.

The same goofs who are always in the back are the ones complaining about wrecking when more times than not they are getting themselves into trouble.
 
TwentyNine said:
I say the driver, and iRacing does a good job of backing this up. For the fixed races (everyone with the same setup) the people who stay out of trouble, race smart, give and take, can wheel it very well and that throttle control are always in the top 5.

The same goofs who are always in the back are the ones complaining about wrecking when more times than not they are getting themselves into trouble.
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Who's ur crew chief in iRacing? lol
 
One thing that most of the top drivers have in common is that they were all #1, dominant drivers coming up through the ranks right from go-karts. It's the driver with the talent and some don't always get a shot in top equipment after making it.
 
A good driver can make a decent car look like a great car and a bad driver can make a decent car look like a terrible care. But a driver has to have at least a half decent car or they are probably not going to do very good...you only have to look at Penske racing to see this is true. Brad and Joey hasn't changed that much in the past 2 years, but their cars have and so has their performance.
 
Nitro Dude said:
A good driver can make a decent car look like a great car and a bad driver can make a decent car look like a terrible care. But a driver has to have at least a half decent car or they are probably not going to do very good...you only have to look at Penske racing to see this is true. Brad and Joey hasn't changed that much in the past 2 years, but their cars have and so has their performance.
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I agree to a degree I don't think that we could choose a car or a driver I agree with nitro there when I said car in my first post I was talking car but also the team it's very hard to choose between driver and car. Without a great team standing behind you a driver would be nothing, same with the car. Without good backup no one would be a winner. I think when this post was started should have been car, driver, or crew.. The crew would win every time. These guys work the butts off every week and very seldom receive the credit they deserve.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I think it has a lot more to do with how the crew chief and driver communicate than either the car or the driver. The crew chief makes the car faster by listening to the driver. So if they work well together then more often than not they'll have the car they need.

I look at the driver, crew chief and the car like the three legs on a tripod... one weak leg and the whole thing will fall when you put some pressure on it.
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Well said. Love the tripod thingy. JJ's car wouldn't be as fast without Chad and JJ working together.
 
There's one thing that every drivers says it takes win a Nascar race.
 
Stewart Fan said:
Not sure. However, look at how Larson is running the #42 verses how Montoya did.
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I ' ve always been a team and crew chief fan ; but I gotta admit , Kyle Larson is giving that 42 car a run , so is Harvick , and Kenseth last year . Kinda goes against the norm IMO.
 
Mark Martin said that "any cup driver out there could win with the best car" That was before Danica started in Nascar so no idea if he still means it :idunno:
There are half a dozen cup drivers that are better than JJ imo
 
StandOnIt said:
when Regan Smith left, the 78's car owner threw a lot more money in his racing program. Same for the Ganassi bunch, they got out of their alliance with DEH end of last year, have hired new crew chiefs and key personel, and both Larson and McMurray are running better. Joey going to Penske in their first year with Ford didn't do that well they didn't have the CAR. Now in the second year both he and Brad are doing just fine with another year of car development. Right now Kenseth's old Roush team mate is in the chase and so is Joey..go figure.... this chicken and the egg stuff can go on forever..:rolleyes:
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Right on SOI
 
StandOnIt said:
when Regan Smith left, the 78's car owner threw a lot more money in his racing program..
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Right on. The alliance with RCR wasn't at the level it's at today, and he began running better once Todd Berrier took over as his crew chief anyways. And in his two starts in the #88 when Jr. was out with a concussion, he had a Top 10 at Kansas and was running in the Top 10 at Charlotte before the engine blew.

Gordon was actually asked this in a USA Today interview last year.

Q: What percent of racing success is driver, what percent is car and what percent is luck?

A: What I love about this question is if I brought (crew chief) Alan (Gustafson) down here, he's going to say the exact opposite of what I'm going to tell you. I'm going to say it's 80% car, 20% driver — and he's going to tell you it's 80% driver and 20% car.

And I think that's the way it should work. You believe in yourself, but you also know how important that car is. I've driven enough cars to know when I have a car I can't do anything with. It's like, "There's nothing I can do to make this a winning car." And then I've driven cars that were so easy to drive, it was like (everyone else) had no chance. ...

So that's why I'm going to lean toward the car as being way, way more important. When you get to this level, 80 or 90% of the drivers out here are quality drivers who, if they had the right car, would be hard to beat.

Luck? I'm not a big believer in luck. I think preparation, hard work, good race cars and a good race team make your luck.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/02/20/jeff-gordon-interview-12-questions/1934483/
 
Kyle18fan said:
Mark Martin said that "any cup driver out there could win with the best car" That was before Danica started in Nascar so no idea if he still means it :idunno:
There are half a dozen cup drivers that are better than JJ imo
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Half dozen? Not so sure about that. Kyle Busch, Kyle Larson and Kurt Busch, yes. Half-dozen, no. And even then, I'm no so sure those three are better. If Kyle Busch used even a fraction of his brain, he'd be a five time Cup champion by now.
 
I think it's always been more about the car than the driver, but especially over the past 10-20 years. Many years ago, a guy like Earnhardt could take a 7th place car and win with it. I don't think that's possible for any driver at most tracks these days.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Half dozen? Not so sure about that. Kyle Busch, Kyle Larson and Kurt Busch, yes. Half-dozen, no. And even then, I'm no so sure those three are better. If Kyle Busch used even a fraction of his brain, he'd be a five time Cup champion by now.
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I like your picks there Andy, a bit soon for Larson ??? Probably not
 
TooSweet said:
I think it's always been more about the car than the driver, but especially over the past 10-20 years. Many years ago, a guy like Earnhardt could take a 7th place car and win with it. I don't think that's possible for any driver at most tracks these days.
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The way I remember it , drivers switching teams or crew chiefs (Dale Sr. possibly the exception) was always two steps back and one step forward . There was always a year or two while they got their s*** together . I'm very surprised that some guys are able to be faster right out of the box these days .
 
If Jimmie and crew took over say, Cole Witt's car I'd imagine they'd be able to make it work and be competitive. I don't know if I can say the same for Cole and his crew but they'd have to be better due to the equipment alone.
 
Chemistry is king. Car, crew, driver, doesn't matter. Certain scenarios bring out the best of drivers and vice versa...

It's really not as easy as 'put such and such in the car and see what happens' or 'look how much better that car is now with that driver'.

Obviously the driver and the car both have to be up to snuff. Everything has to work together and progressively for the team to be successful.

Furthermore, I'd say probably 80% of the Cup drivers are capable of huge success in the Cup Series given the luck and great team chemistry required. A good example is the 42 this year, or the 2 getting a championship. Both teams went through overhauls right as the big talent stud was stepping in. It all gelled together bitchin. Who knows if Keselowski could win that title if Paul Wufff wasn't on the box..

A better example is Chad Knaus and Jimmie Johnson.. No need to expand there.
 
Remember JJ Yeley at JGR?

That 18 car couldn't get out of its own way when Yeley was driving it in '06 and '07, then Kyle Busch stepped in the next year and has proceeded to win 25 races with that team since 2008.

The car is important, but I think a good driver makes a lot of difference.
 
ToyYoda said:
Remember JJ Yeley at JGR?

That 18 car couldn't get out of its own way when Yeley was driving it in '06 and '07, then Kyle Busch stepped in the next year and has proceeded to win 25 races with that team since 2008.

The car is important, but I think a good driver makes a lot of difference.
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Yeley drove the Busch Series 18 didn't he? The only seat time he got with JGR in the Cup series is the 11 after Leffler left I believe.

Either way, Hamlin and Mike Ford made the 11 successful after the disastrous start for the team.
 
DUN24 said:
Yeley drove the Busch Series 18 didn't he? The only seat time he got with JGR in the Cup series is the 11 after Leffler left I believe.

Either way, Hamlin and Mike Ford made the 11 successful after the disastrous start for the team.
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Yeley drove the 18 Cup car in '06-'07. He was post-Labonte and pre-Busch.
 
Wingnutcnc said:
If Jimmie and crew took over say, Cole Witt's car I'd imagine they'd be able to make it work and be competitive. I don't know if I can say the same for Cole and his crew but they'd have to be better due to the equipment alone.
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It would be interesting to swap just cars and see who is faster.
 
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