Ford Resurgence

Ford 222

Ford 222

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So why? Why are the competitive with the Toyotas now? I understand the Camaro having some issues this year, maybe not to this extent but they will get it righted.

But the Fusion and Camry are the same cars this year as last. What has changed now?
 
Big shift in numbers. Penske was always good, they expanded to three and added the Wood Brothers. SHR came over to add four more cars. So 6 cars have been added. It looks like all of a sudden, but SHR and Penske went to the playoffs last year and Harvick beat the 1.5 king Truex on a mile and a half track at end of last year. Roush Yates engines are making really good horsepower.
 
harvick said we are better than the 78 car, a while back. that told me he knows what they were doing on the 78 car and feels like they have what they were doing and something better. That is what I think. they know the 78 cars advantage. The 78 car and the other toyotas still maintain an advantage over most of the field. but the 4 car has it and more. that is what I think
 
Fords complained a lot last year. Were they given any accommodations? I don’t recall that they were, just wondering. I remember Brad K. in particular made quite a few comments about Fords being disadvantaged.
 
superchuck500 said:
Fords complained a lot last year. Were they given any accommodations? I don’t recall that they were, just wondering. I remember Brad K. in particular made quite a few comments about Fords being disadvantaged.
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What's that have to with Fords resurgence?
 
It might be in the engines, or it might be in the chassis. They aren't going to tell, just like the Toyota's didn't tell last year. This has happened all through NASCAR's history. I'm not close enough to anybody to know for sure. That is one of the things I love about NASCAR. As long as it's legal, its a good thing. It makes the rest of the teams work harder.
 
Yogisd1 said:
It might be in the engSee post #7.ines, or it might be in the chassis. They aren't going to tell, just like the Toyota's didn't tell last year. This has happened all through NASCAR's history. I'm not close enough to anybody to know for sure. That is one of the things I love about NASCAR. As long as it's legal, its a good thing. It makes the rest of the teams work harder.
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See post #7. They aren't necessarily faster just everybody else is slower. Plus the flux capacitor & nitrous.
 
Spotter22 said:
OSS. Fords body isnt better ,Everyone's are put on correctly now.
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Why was Ford unable to put theirs on "incorrectly" last year and keep up?

You have five Toyotas who drive off of the right rear IMO. Common splitter and radiator pan negated the front downforce advantage the 18 Camry had. This creates a tight car driven off of the right front. None of the Toyota drivers like that (neither does Jimmie). Guess who loves it? My two cents.
 
StandOnIt said:
They all were plenty loose at Kansas, all you heard was tighten me up.
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Yeah, but I think we are talking a balance issue here. Early in the year, Toyotas couldn't get the balance right. When they did, it was lights out. Chasing a car is different that the platform you start with IMO.
 
They showed up slow, didn't get enough practice in and there it is. Where did Kyle finish anyway..didn't see him
 
Roles will reverse when ford is racing the new mustang body in cup... Chevy will have had a year dealing with their camero. Chevy for a big rebound in 2019.
 
Revman said:
Why was Ford unable to put theirs on "incorrectly" last year and keep up?

You have five Toyotas who drive off of the right rear IMO. Common splitter and radiator pan negated the front downforce advantage the 18 Camry had. This creates a tight car driven off of the right front. None of the Toyota drivers like that (neither does Jimmie). Guess who loves it? My two cents.
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You had a bunch of Camrys, Fords and Chevys "driving off the right rear" Saturday night. The OSS has taken away a bunch of play the teams were using with the Bodies and obviously its not hurt the Fords as bad as some of the others. And just to be clear its not just Aero making Ford better right now, its a combination of things they are doing really well.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
harvick said we are better than the 78 car, a while back. that told me he knows what they were doing on the 78 car and feels like they have what they were doing and something better. That is what I think. they know the 78 cars advantage. The 78 car and the other toyotas still maintain an advantage over most of the field. but the 4 car has it and more. that is what I think
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Its more than just the 4 car though. If you go by points alone, 5 of the Top 6 in points right now are all Ford. Ky Bush being the lone exception. The following 2 are Toyota's also so the Top 8 are all Ford/Toyota with Ford really dominating this year. I'm sure they found something just like Toy found something last year.
 
Spotter22 said:
You had a bunch of Camrys, Fords and Chevys "driving off the right rear" Saturday night. The OSS has taken away a bunch of play the teams were using with the Bodies and obviously its not hurt the Fords as bad as some of the others. And just to be clear its not just Aero making Ford better right now, its a combination of things they are doing really well.
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Yeah, and as I pointed out to @StandOnIt, they were chasing the car Saturday. That's a bit different IMO. If loose is all you have, you don't have balance IMO.
So what do the Fords have? Kez screamed for the wind tunnel last year.....he failed to mention that there were other solutions. What are they? ....and as much as I love Doug Yates, spare me the Ford horsepower stuff. The curves may be different, but I am pretty sure the power is very much similar between the manufacturers. We all know that drive off flatters horsepower perceptions.
As noted in somewhere around here, I'm not sure that Ford is faster so much as everyone else is slower....and the 4 has a package that plays into his hands.
Again, if this is about the OSS preventing Toyota from screwing with the bodies, why didn't Ford do it too?
Flyer22 said:
I'm sure they found something just like Toy found something last year.
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Why didn't they just shut up, and find it last year?
 
Remember in the 90's how fast the Thunderbird's were
how 'd they slow them down
tied a Chevy to their bumper
 
Spotter22 said:
OSS. Fords body isnt better ,Everyone's are put on correctly now.
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Other than the Chevy changing body style that might be causing a kinetic balance issue, believe that Penske and SHR have found the secret Furniture Row had over everyone else.

Think Larry alluded to that during the race...might have something to do with "under the car" wind flow. Like routing the air flow with the exhaust to exit behind the driver on the left side. Theoretically forming a low pressure situation under the left rear of the car...few more pounds of down force can make a difference. A couple of other mice nut differences could end up giving them elephant dung size improvements.

Comparing the Roush cars to the Penske/SHR cars, supports my theory...as everything else is the same. Also think that Ganassi has caught on to it...but so far is only experimenting with the 42.

Just my nickel of opinion.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, and as I pointed out to @StandOnIt, they were chasing the car Saturday. That's a bit different IMO. If loose is all you have, you don't have balance IMO.
So what do the Fords have? Kez screamed for the wind tunnel last year.....he failed to mention that there were other solutions. What are they? ....and as much as I love Doug Yates, spare me the Ford horsepower stuff. The curves may be different, but I am pretty sure the power is very much similar between the manufacturers. We all know that drive off flatters horsepower perceptions.
As noted in somewhere around here, I'm not sure that Ford is faster so much as everyone else is slower....and the 4 has a package that plays into his hands.
Again, if this is about the OSS preventing Toyota from screwing with the bodies, why didn't Ford do it too?

Why didn't they just shut up, and find it last year?
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The Tire compound played in to everyone being loose. Everyone had to deal with it, The 42 figured it out, the 4 figured it out, the 18 did for a while but couldnt finish. Again, its not just one thing why Ford is having a good run right now.
 
Spotter22 said:
The Tire compound played in to everyone being loose. Everyone had to deal with it, The 42 figured it out, the 4 figured it out, the 18 did for a while but couldnt finish. Again, its not just one thing why Ford is having a good run right now.
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Never is, but I really want to know how they got from dire last year to dominate this year. Interesting stuff.
 
Spotter22 said:
OSS. Fords body isnt better ,Everyone's are put on correctly now.
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This^

I think the new inspection has had the biggest impact. I’m sure there are many other nuances that the 4 is doing on top of it but it’s not an advantage for Ford as much as removing whatever Gibbs was doing last year. The Chevys are just a wild card now with a new body. Ford will probably have same issue next year.

So Kez was right last year and Martin is wrong. The new inspection took away the Gibbs “unfair” advantage and made them all legal now. Lol.
 
28car said:
Remember in the 90's how fast the Thunderbird's were
how 'd they slow them down
tied a Chevy to their bumper
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I remember 1995 when the new Monte Carlo won the first four races while the Fords (Jack Roush especially) cried and cried and cried, so NASCAR made adjustments to slow them down. Then the Monte Carlos won three more races after that and Ford cried some more until NASCAR slowed them even further.
 
2 Sweet said:
I remember 1995 when the new Monte Carlo won the first four races while the Fords (Jack Roush especially) cried and cried and cried, so NASCAR made adjustments to slow them down. Then the Monte Carlos won three more races after that and Ford cried some more until NASCAR slowed them even further.
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Yeah, in a car NASCAR completely bent the rules for. Back then there were like 9 templates based on the stock version of the car that the race car had to fit. That fugly Monte came out with a narrow rear end that wouldn't fit 2 of the rear end templates (not entirely sure of the numbers but there were multiple templates the MC didn't fit). NASCAR gave them a pass to only have to fit like 7 so they could expand the rear deck lid to get the template to fit lengthwise. Of course that was after they let them run the Lumina. Prior to that cars were to be RWD with a V8. Chevy introduces the Lumina to run with Thunderbirds on the big tracks but it's FWD. No problem GM, all your racecars can be based on FWD (with a V6 as the other criteria was a V8 which, of course, the Ford had available to the public). And prior to THAT they allowed Chevy to run that Aero Monte Carlo with the sweeping back glass because, again, couldn't keep up with the T-birds at Talledega and Daytona. Somewhere around there they even let the GMs put headlamp covers on the light wells because they were disadvantaged due to the T-Birds flush (and stock/available to the public) lights.

We know where the crying/whining started.......
 
Ford 222 said:
Yeah, in a car NASCAR completely bent the rules for. Back then there were like 9 templates based on the stock version of the car that the race car had to fit. That fugly Monte came out with a narrow rear end that wouldn't fit 2 of the rear end templates (not entirely sure of the numbers but there were multiple templates the MC didn't fit). NASCAR gave them a pass to only have to fit like 7 so they could expand the rear deck lid to get the template to fit lengthwise. Of course that was after they let them run the Lumina. Prior to that cars were to be RWD with a V8. Chevy introduces the Lumina to run with Thunderbirds on the big tracks but it's FWD. No problem GM, all your racecars can be based on FWD (with a V6 as the other criteria was a V8 which, of course, the Ford had available to the public). And prior to THAT they allowed Chevy to run that Aero Monte Carlo with the sweeping back glass because, again, couldn't keep up with the T-birds at Talledega and Daytona. Somewhere around there they even let the GMs put headlamp covers on the light wells because they were disadvantaged due to the T-Birds flush (and stock/available to the public) lights.

We know where the crying/whining started.......
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Don't get me wrong, I liked the Thunderbird, and you make some fair points. Unfortunately for Ford, they replaced the T-bird with the Taurus, which to this day still stands as the ugliest race car ever made
 
^ let me clarify...the ugliest street car ever made into a race car.

Farm-Bureau-Insurance-Rate-Quote-For-1998-FORD-TAURUS-SHO-2WD-SEDAN-4-DOOR-3.4L-V8-PFI-DOHC-NP-93.37-Per-Month.jpg


The ugliest actual race car has to be the mid 00's Dodge thing.......

nascar-cup-phoenix-ii-2005-jeremy-mayfield.jpg
 
2 Sweet said:
^ let me clarify...the ugliest street car ever made into a race car.

Farm-Bureau-Insurance-Rate-Quote-For-1998-FORD-TAURUS-SHO-2WD-SEDAN-4-DOOR-3.4L-V8-PFI-DOHC-NP-93.37-Per-Month.jpg


The ugliest actual race car has to be the mid 00's Dodge thing.......

nascar-cup-phoenix-ii-2005-jeremy-mayfield.jpg
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Have to admit, you got me there. The Taurus looked like a catfish.....

The 90's T-Bird was beautiful to me. And truth be known, the Monte Carlo was my favorite street car in the 80's. Good looking race cars too.
 
superchuck500 said:
Fords complained a lot last year. Were they given any accommodations? I don’t recall that they were, just wondering. I remember Brad K. in particular made quite a few comments about Fords being disadvantaged.
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Kyle always blames Goodyear, are they going to get special tires soon?
 
Something was taken away from the Fords after Joey was encumbered. The 4 car worked hard to get it back and eventually did. The 2 car found some speed but Brad doesn't like the car this way. Joey runs his own set ups (unsuccessfully) and struggles. Ryan doesn't have the experience yet to say "I'm not comfortable" so he just drives the heck out of what he has.
The 14 is just grateful to have a ride and is getting back to where he was at MWR. The #10 car is just grateful he no longer drives the 43 and can put up with Danica;s team.
Roush has a new/old driver to help them run like a Toyota.
 
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