Racing Back to the Line

kyle18fan said:
I enjoy watching long races play out naturally
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Again you use the word race. Many drivers were so used to being on cruise that when they brought out stages, they just kept doing their usual until they were forced to see how big a lead Martin had. He almost had the championship won before the chase started.
 
Team Penske said:
Again you use the word race. Many drivers were so used to being on cruise that when they brought out stages, they just kept doing their usual until they were forced to see how big a lead Martin had. He almost had the championship won before the chase started.
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Le Mans isn't won on the first lap. It would be cool to award points for the leader mid race but don't stop the damned race to do it.
 
IanMcVittie said:
While we are at it I’m in favor of raising pit road speed above high idle and get rid of whatever commitment cone thingy they use too.

Safety initiatives are important but must also be weighed against completion and entertainment value. The CoT was as safe as safe can be and I don’t think we ever recovered from it.
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I can get along with losing the commitment cone; it doesn't matter much to me.

Regarding pit road speed, as soon as the first crewman goes flying, I'm out of here. When the footage hits the national sports programs, I won't be alone.
 
Formerjackman said:
Just curious, have you ever gone over a pit wall with cars coming at you at even 35 MPH?
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I never said that pit road speeds should be abolished but increased where possible. Nascar needs to speed things up but the keep slowing things down like a bunch of next year’s races
 
kyle18fan said:
Stages .... something I can barely bring myself to watch or discuss. Probably the most ridiculous thing to ever hit a race track
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I do not have a problem with stages, makes them push hard the whole race, but, I have a big problem with the DA cautions at the end of stages. Let'em race on and figure the rest out themselves.
 
If stages must exist then award whatever points you want at whatever stage of the race but dont throw a caution. Either that or hold 2-3 separate races instead. Stop intentionally slowing down something that is supposed to be fast.
 
The stages are a compromise between the networks, Nascar and fans complaining about the length and number of commercials that were being shown during the racing broadcast. It's helped a little. Unlike stick n ball that has many opportunities to air commercials, it isn't that simple for auto racing. I would like another stage myself with a written contract that the networks couldn't show a commercial or blinking ticker, or any other advertising junk on the screen.
 
Team Penske said:
Some races the most exciting thing on the track is a guy a lap down behind 5 others and he racing to be the first car a lap down. Many times it is the only racing going on.
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Maybe if the lucky dog didn't exist the most exciting thing would be that same driver racing to get his lap back...Just saying.
 
They shortened the time a car can be repaired in the pits, got rid of the crash cart and the large crash crew that went over the wall, and have a minimum speed or park it. I guess leaving the lucky dog made sense because they kinda reduced the number of times a fast car could come in to get back to speed and then keep getting a lucky dog. I still think they need to get rid of it, one less thing for them to keep track of. I think there were more cars going into the pits this year instead of throwing parts all over the track and causing cautions.
 
kyle18fan said:
Le Mans isn't won on the first lap. It would be cool to award points for the leader mid race but don't stop the damned race to do it.
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So it isn't the stages you appose, it is the caution after the stage???
The stages have produced some great racing and whether you believe it or not, I can guarantee you they will stop the race or stop showing the race anyway. Commercials right now are paying for Nascar so you better get used to that.
 
What makes anyone think that a race back to the line is going to result in someone passing the leader? I'm far too lazy to do the research in racing-reference.info but I'd bet that 90+% of the passing in this sport takes place in the pits or the few laps following a restart. It's not going to take place during that race back to the line any more than it does a lap leading up to a caution does now. There's zero benefit in NASCAR going back to this method.

Great off-season fodder though. Beats beating a dead horse.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
What makes anyone think that a race back to the line is going to result in someone passing the leader? I'm far too lazy to do the research in racing-reference.info but I'd bet that 90+% of the passing in this sport takes place in the pits or the few laps following a restart. It's not going to take place during that race back to the line any more than it does a lap leading up to a caution does now. There's zero benefit in NASCAR going back to this method.

Great off-season fodder though. Beats beating a dead horse.
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there has been plenty of racing to the line in the stages. If you were watching Homestead for instance, Larson and Harvick in the second stage was the latest racing back to the line, and the lead changed hands very close to the finish line. Larson by a fender. There were a number of stages that finished under caution also that IMO could have been finished racing.
 
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StandOnIt said:
The stages are a compromise between the networks, Nascar and fans complaining about the length and number of commercials that were being shown during the racing broadcast. It's helped a little. Unlike stick n ball that has many opportunities to air commercials, it isn't that simple for auto racing. I would like another stage myself with a written contract that the networks couldn't show a commercial or blinking ticker, or any other advertising junk on the screen.
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I agree, especially as you make the point that this is a complex issue due to various revenues streams from TV money, individual sponsor deals, etc.

where everybody along the way needs to be paid — driver, owner, teams, networks, sponsors, advertisers, local stations, tracks, vendors, et al.

I do think it is humorous from a standpoint that every car is a billboard and a race is literally a streaming advertisement. :)

The fan carries the burden of supporting all of THAT, and is professionally agitated by advertisements/commercials throughout the race because of it.
 
Fans know that commercials are the main fuel for the fire, the problem is they cover up the races too much. What is it now a 30 minute show on TV is 10 or 12 minutes of commercials. They don't throw a caution, but they stop the show. I don't see the difference, they stop the sports games. One could say all of those time outs are gimmicks also, whatever it don't matter. But none of them show commercials when the action is happening, but auto racing? It's a tough one to solve.
 
I can’t think of anything I watch live anymore as with the DVR I can start watching while the program is in progress and skip through commercials and unwanted clutter. I do know that many people would feel cheated if they didn’t watch a game or race as it unfolded and I don’t understand it but I do honor it.

There are some events that start at 10:00 pm ET that I will record and watch the next day. It is all new to me soit is just as excitinng for me as if I was watching live.
 
be9ak7ts16 said:
I seldom pay attention to the first two periods. The third period I do watch. When I Do watch a race that is.
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I watched the beginning of some races and deleted the broadcast before the end. Normally I would mainly pay attention to the last segment though
 
Zerkfitting said:
When the caution comes out the field is frozen. But on the last lap - if the track is clear to the finish line, I'd rather see them race to the finish rather than have them try again.
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NASCAR tries to keep the green flag displayed when there is a last lap incident, and I support that policy. It depends on the nature of the crash, and more importantly, where it's located relative to the start/finish line. I believe NASCAR has done a good job of managing the yellow flag for the last several years.

As a teenager in 1967, I realized a policy of racing back to the line was pure insanity. Watching AJ Foyt slowly wind through a crash scene to win the Indy 500... and knowing how different he would've driven if the second guy had been on his ass, was all it took to convince me.

There are those who regard motor racing not as a sporting contest of skill, but rather as a daredevil show that relies upon imminent danger to be interesting... like tightrope walking over Niagara Falls or something. When those people decide modern racing is too safe to hold their interest, I'll gladly say "Goodbye and good riddance."
 
sdj said:
I do not have a problem with stages, makes them push hard the whole race, but, I have a big problem with the DA cautions at the end of stages. Let'em race on and figure the rest out themselves.
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Yeah, don't throw a caution, just add the points up at the stage interval. That would be great
 
Team Penske said:
So it isn't the stages you appose, it is the caution after the stage???
The stages have produced some great racing and whether you believe it or not, I can guarantee you they will stop the race or stop showing the race anyway. Commercials right now are paying for Nascar so you better get used to that.
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Yes, that is the part that irritates me. We had commercials before stage racing, we record the race and fast forward ALL commercials.
 
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LewTheShoe said:
NASCAR tries to keep the green flag displayed when there is a last lap incident, and I support that policy. It depends on the nature of the crash, and more importantly, where it's located relative to the start/finish line. I believe NASCAR has done a good job of managing the yellow flag for the last several years.

As a teenager in 1967, I realized a policy of racing back to the line was pure insanity. Watching AJ Foyt slowly wind through a crash scene to win the Indy 500... and knowing how different he would've driven if the second guy had been on his ass, was all it took to convince me.

There are those who regard motor racing not as a sporting contest of skill, but rather as a daredevil show that relies upon imminent danger to be interesting... like tightrope walking over Niagara Falls or something. When those people decide modern racing is too safe to hold their interest, I'll gladly say "Goodbye and good riddance."
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Eh, gross overreaction IMO. We have seen Larson and Dillion take hits plate racing and many others on a variety of tracks when there was no way to miss them under green, Kenseth, Newman upside down etc all of those were no warning racing incidents that happened. Nobody is advocating cars sideways on the track and cars coming around at full steam that's stupid. And BTW these aren't open wheelers built to 60's safety standards, it's 2019 and believe it or not they have radios now and multiple band communications with track officials, spotters and crew chiefs, Safety lights everywhere and safer barriers. Doesn't make sense an advocate for faster is better, ragged edge, hanging by a thread of control, suggesting anybody wanting to race back to the flag when safely possible is wanting a daredevil show?
 
StandOnIt said:
Eh, gross overreaction IMO. We have seen Larson and Dillion take hits plate racing and many others on a variety of tracks when there was no way to miss them under green, Kenseth, Newman upside down etc all of those were no warning racing incidents that happened. Nobody is advocating cars sideways on the track and cars coming around at full steam that's stupid. And BTW these aren't open wheelers built to 60's safety standards, it's 2019 and believe it or not they have radios now and multiple band communications with track officials, spotters and crew chiefs, Safety lights everywhere and safer barriers. Doesn't make sense an advocate for faster is better, ragged edge, hanging by a thread of control, suggesting anybody wanting to race back to the flag when safely possible is wanting a daredevil show?
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It only stands to reason that the faster a car goes the harsher the impact and the greater the chance is for driver injury. It makes no sense that a person would want cars running within a hair of wrecking but then freak out about how unsafe it is to race back to the stripe.
 
kyle18fan said:
Yes, that is the part that irritates me. We had commercials before stage racing, we record the race and fast forward ALL commercials.
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Keep doing it and FF from stage caution to green. OR go back to having mystery cautions so you can FF those. What's the difference?
Maybe Nascar can start a PPV Channel and you can invest $$$$$ into that.

I am going to stay with the FF option and enjoy Stage Racing.
 
Team Penske said:
Keep doing it and FF from stage caution to green. OR go back to having mystery cautions so you can FF those. What's the difference?
Maybe Nascar can start a PPV Channel and you can invest $$$$$ into that.

I am going to stay with the FF option and enjoy Stage Racing.
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I enjoyed non stage racing, we obviously don't agree.
 
kyle18fan said:
Too many gimmicks
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Some people just don't like changes. However everything evolves. My passion is for Curling and you would not believe the number of changes both here in Canada and at the international level.
I still watch it all as well as every Nascar race I can get.
 
Team Penske said:
Some people just don't like changes. However everything evolves. My passion is for Curling and you would not believe the number of changes both here in Canada and at the international level.
I still watch it all as well as every Nascar race I can get.
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I am leaning towards Moto-Gp and always have bicycle races to watch as well.
 
One of the most iconic finishes in the history of the sport was The Kings 200th win. Petty and Cale were racing back to the stripe while Doug Hevron was barrel rolling down the infield on the back stretch. It worked well that day. But, consider where the leaders were in contrast to the wreck, and consider the size of the track. There are several factors for me to think about. NASCAR I do believe could make it work to race back to the stripe. It would all depend in the situation.
And a little side note, Harry Gant actually finished 2nd that day. Seems Cale thought the race was over, he pulled down pit road, his crew chief rushed him back out, he lined back up in 3rd place under caution where he would finish. Which, when you think about it, NASCAR waved the checkers and yellow at the same time. I'd probably thought it was over too. My guess is NASCAR knew there wasn't going to be a restart.
 
Go ahead, throw a caution at the end of the stage, just don't count those laps.

Or, if those laps must count, don't take them out of the second stage. Start the laps counting for the second stage with the green, not with the yellow ending the first stage.

Assuming a 400 lap race with 100 laps for the first two stages:
  • Lap 100 (or whenever) - end of first stage
  • Laps 101 through 105 (or however many) - caution between stages
  • Lap 106 - start second stage
  • Lap 206 - end second stage
  • Laps 207 through 212 - caution between stages
  • Lap 213 - start final stage.
 
Team Penske said:
To each their own. I like this years racing best over the last 10 years.
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With some notable exceptions, I thought that even IF the races got interesting at the end, most were dreadfully boring for the first two thirds, and in my opinion, the stages didn't do much of anything to alleviate that. If this is the best the sport has to offer, then we might as well get used to it dwindling until it resembles ARCA. I just can't convince ANYBODY to watch the current product with any regularity, even people that formerly watched all the time.
 
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