Racing Back to the Line

2.5 and 2.6 mile Plate Races, 1/2 mile races, 3/4 mile races, 1 mile races, 1.5 mile races and road courses plus now a ROVAL. No other racing series in the world makes drivers be good at all these disciplines, that is one of the things that makes NASCAR Racing so dang good, the variety.

Also another thing is they all show up with a close resemblance to what we drive today on a super safe chassis and driver compartment. They show up in 40 BADASS 650 to 750 HP fire breathing Naturally aspirated push rod engines that can run for 500 miles at a constant 8000 to 8500 rpm and survive, AMAZING engineering. On top of all this it is an all AMERICAN bred and true sport.

I have said this before, There is nothing that sounds like a pack of these cars going into turn 3 at Daytona and the roar washing back across the track and then when they come off turn 4 toward turn one if you are sitting past the start finish line they go pretty quiet and you can hear the pure rumble and feel the vibration of the mass coming toward you, it gives me chill bumps and a lump in my throat just writing about it.

Or sitting between turn 4 and the start finish line at Atlanta on the first lap and all 40 cars going into turn 3 at over 200MPH then full throttle off of turn 4 to the start finish line is one of the most exciting things in the wold to me.

40 drivers trying to handle a car that wants to be out of control for 300, 400, 500 and 600 miles is awesome to me.

Truth be told, I have very little to really complain about NASCAR ,as far as the racing goes.
 
StandOnIt said:
I haven't seen one verified source that shows a sitting car getting involved in a serious crash caused because of racing back to the line. According to Larry Mac Nascar pulled the plug after a knee jerk reaction to a close call involving Ned Jarrett at Loudon.
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I'd rather see NASCAR make more decisions BEFORE there's a problem, not after, at least as far as safety is concerned.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Fair enough. It sounds like what you are saying is that racing back to the stripe doesn’t have any real upside to mitigate the risk. However racing at Talladega and Daytona have a huge upside to mitigate any risk.
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All the cars are moving at close to the same rate of speed, not sitting still or slowly rolling, theres a difference
 
Yes. Some of the worst accidents in motorsports have involved a car at speed striking a car that is stopped or barely moving. See Memo Gidley, Rolex 24 2015, lucky to be alive, Eric Martin, Charlotte 2002, deceased, Paul Dana, Homestead 2006, deceased, Buren Skeen, Darlington 1965, deceased, Don Mctavish, Daytona, 1969, deceased, I could on and on, but you get the point.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd rather see NASCAR make more decisions BEFORE there's a problem, not after, at least as far as safety is concerned.
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If Nascar can’t be proactive at least stay away from knee jerk reactions like the CoT. The chase and that car are 2 legs of the stool that took faithful fans and turned them into uninterested bystanders.
 
IanMcVittie said:
If Nascar can’t be proactive at least stay away from knee jerk reactions like the CoT. The chase and that car are 2 legs of the stool that took faithful fans and turned them into uninterested bystanders.
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The COT saved lives, is innovative and it bascially remains today sans the wing.
 
Formerjackman said:
Yes. Some of the worst accidents in motorsports have involved a car at speed striking a car that is stopped or barely moving. See Memo Gidley, Rolex 24 2015, lucky to be alive, Eric Martin, Charlotte 2002, deceased, Paul Dana, Homestead 2006, deceased, Buren Skeen, Darlington 1965, deceased, Don Mctavish, Daytona, 1969, deceased, I could on and on, but you get the point.
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No I can't say I really do get your point. As far as full bodied Nascar's go Eric Martin, Charlotte 2002 Hit in practice. Nascar made a rule, spotters are to be on duty at all times when a car is on the track. The rest of these I have looked at back in the 60's? or an IRL or IMSA are racing incidences. And again my point being racing back to the caution when it is safe to do so Backmarker back in the pack up against the wall or down on the apron, like Dega on the closing lap, car way down in the grass. These are examples. A car sitting in the middle of the track? Anybody have some common sense? Making it legitimate for Nascar to have the decision to continue or not is my point. I think it is bogus to stop the race for every little thing, and some fans have become so accustomed for the yellow to fly for any little thing, it leads to finishing stages under yellow too many times, and the flow of the race is slowed to a crawl when a backmarker or a slightly wrecked car can make it back to the pits for repairs and they throw the caution for it.
 
Spotter22 said:
The COT saved lives, is innovative and it bascially remains today sans the wing.
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I think it took about 7 years to bring the CoT to fruition and even Brian France admits it was a mistake. The Chase began the first mass exodus of fans and the CoT did in many more.

We agree that the 4 plate races are good for the business of Nascar and I’m sure we would agree that the chase and CoT were bad for the business of Nascar
 
IanMcVittie said:
I think it took about 7 years to bring the CoT to fruition and even Brian France admits it was a mistake. The Chase began the first mass exodus of fans and the CoT did in many more.

We agree that the 4 plate races are good for the business of Nascar and I’m sure we would agree that the chase and CoT were bad for the business of Nascar
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It was only a mistake because it took the car out of the conversation. Then the Gen 7 brought it back only to be ignored in favor of driver drama stories and manufacturers storylines. The promotion of this sport is totally ****** up. Quit shoving the "athlete" narrative down fans' throats. The younger set has never bought in. Start pushing the cars and the drivers as they wheel them, and then you would have something. Why do you think the target demographic likes drifting? For whatever reason, NASCAR has totally lost why racing is awesome. The car has to be part of the equation. My God, the sport is so driver-centric, it cannot wait to hire washed up drivers to commentate.
 
Listening to the fans, they wanted cars that were more realistic and the COT was not. Also the wing on the back was a problem when the cars were turned around at speed they lifted off of the track. Many of the safety features that the COT car innovated were built into the newest version of the car and this year there are independently powered crash cameras and data recorders to collect crash data. The floor pan was reconfigured last year to provide better protection to the drivers feet in the event of a crash are a couple of major changes in addition to many others. The car is always a work in progress and continues to get safer.

Looks terrible, but the drivers area including the foot area are intact
iu
 
"It was only a mistake because it took the car out of the conversation."
No, the CoT was the conversation. The manufacturers were taken out of the conversation --

until the next generation which supposedly gave the cars better market identity with their street counterparts...
 
Ventisca said:
"It was only a mistake because it took the car out of the conversation."
No, the CoT was the conversation. The manufacturers were taken out of the conversation --

until the next generation which supposedly gave the cars better market identity with their street counterparts...
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Now they have a car that is more realistic to what is on the street, but is also safer than the COT.
 
Ventisca said:
"It was only a mistake because it took the car out of the conversation."
No, the CoT was the conversation. The manufacturers were taken out of the conversation --

until the next generation which supposedly gave the cars better market identity with their street counterparts...
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Fair enough, but the buzz wasn't positive....He was right. The car was hated....he just had the stones to hate it before it became a thing.
 
StandOnIt said:
Now they have a car that is more realistic to what is on the street, but is also safer than the COT.
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....and yet, you will have posters bitch that it isn't anything like what is on the street. I am not clear whether or not fans give a **** about race track to showroom similarities. I
 
Ventisca said:
"It was only a mistake because it took the car out of the conversation."
No, the CoT was the conversation. The manufacturers were taken out of the conversation --

until the next generation which supposedly gave the cars better market identity with their street counterparts...
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Once I saw those exhaust port decals I was hooked:D
 
Revman said:
....and yet, you will have posters bitch that it isn't anything like what is on the street. I am not clear whether or not fans give a sh!t about race track to showroom similarities. I
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The cars look as realistic to their road counterparts as Funny Cars do to me. I’m not saying it is good or bad but for many people the cars are generic and interchangeable.

Years ago people would be jumping off the Kurt Busch bandwagon because he no longer was in a Ford. Years ago people would be jumping on the Kurt Busch bandwagon because he was now driving a Chevy. No one seems to care anymore.
 
IanMcVittie said:
The cars look as realistic to their road counterparts as Funny Cars do to me. I’m not saying it is good or bad but for many people the cars are generic and interchangeable.

Years ago people would be jumping off the Kurt Busch bandwagon because he no longer was in a Ford. Years ago people would be jumping on the Kurt Busch bandwagon because he was now driving a Chevy. No one seems to care anymore.
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I do. :waver: ....and this is my point. NASCAR was built on Manufacturer loyalty. NASCAR needs to get back to promoting that. Manufacturers see the benefit, and start investing in the sport again instead of leaving it up to Toyota. Ford has figured it out. Chevy has its head up its ass. Still counting on Mr. H. to do the heavy lifting. How has that worked out for them?
 
Revman said:
I do. :waver: ....and this is my point. NASCAR was built on Manufacturer loyalty. NASCAR needs to get back to promoting that. Manufacturers see the benefit, and start investing in the sport again instead of leaving it up to Toyota. Ford has figured it out. Chevy has its head up its ass. Still counting on Mr. H. to do the heavy lifting. How has that worked out for them?
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listening to Gordon's and Jr's podcast located in the Nascar random thread one gets a different story. Guys like Petty and Earnhardt, Wallace, Jarrett, and Gordon and Stewart etc weren't sitting on their hands. They are still talked about today years later. I believe it take both to make a series, been that way forever. Got to have star drivers along with fast cars. Question? what did A.J. Foyt drive..answer-everything
 
Revman said:
I do. :waver: ....and this is my point. NASCAR was built on Manufacturer loyalty. NASCAR needs to get back to promoting that. Manufacturers see the benefit, and start investing in the sport again instead of leaving it up to Toyota. Ford has figured it out. Chevy has its head up its ass. Still counting on Mr. H. to do the heavy lifting. How has that worked out for them?
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The manufacturer rivalry years used to be a lot of fun especially the Ford-Chevy one. I’m not sure those rivalries can be resurrected as even fans in long-standing seem not to care. Rivalries between drivers used to be real and real fun but at this point are part of history.
 
StandOnIt said:
ya do?
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Yeah I find it funny because in times past you could pull all the lights and other exterior features from a car run in cup and still know what it was. These days you have to put as many decals as possible on a common car run in Nascar in order to try and make it look differently
 
Let them race to the line. And while you're at it, dump restrictor plates without doing anything else to slow the cars down.

Racing is dangerous. That's part of why it's exciting.
 
IanMcVittie said:
The manufacturer rivalry years used to be a lot of fun especially the Ford-Chevy one. I’m not sure those rivalries can be resurrected as even fans in long-standing seem not to care. Rivalries between drivers used to be real and real fun but at this point are part of history.
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You know, I have wondered ever since Toyota enter if they would have even been allowed in had that intense domestic rivalry lived. Toyota has never had a place at that table, and I don't think they ever will. Are they gone for good? Maybe.
 
Revman said:
You know, I have wondered ever since Toyota enter if they would have even been allowed in had that intense domestic rivalry lived. Toyota has never had a place at that table, and I don't think they ever will. Are they gone for good? Maybe.
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Jag raced a bit way back when, they were really good on the road courses. Good story about foreign cars and Nascar. A lot of years went by before Toyota showed up.

A Jaguar Wins A NASCAR Race!

https://stevemckelvie.wordpress.com/2018/01/23/a-jaguar-wins-a-nascar-race/
 
Revman said:
You know, I have wondered ever since Toyota enter if they would have even been allowed in had that intense domestic rivalry lived. Toyota has never had a place at that table, and I don't think they ever will. Are they gone for good? Maybe.
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I love Toyota’s as they have been great cars and trucks for me going back to the days of the 20r engine. I think that if a manufacturer rivaly broke out again Toyota could participate as they are more American than many domestics.
 
Revman said:
You know, I have wondered ever since Toyota enter if they would have even been allowed in had that intense domestic rivalry lived. Toyota has never had a place at that table, and I don't think they ever will. Are they gone for good? Maybe.
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StandOnIt said:
Jag raced a bit way back when, they were really good on the road courses. Good story about foreign cars and Nascar. A lot of years went by before Toyota showed up.

A Jaguar Wins A NASCAR Race!

https://stevemckelvie.wordpress.com/2018/01/23/a-jaguar-wins-a-nascar-race/
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Could make a case as to why Nascar got rid of the road courses and went to more ovals? It eliminated foreign competition who could corner better but had smaller motors
 
IanMcVittie said:
I love Toyota’s as they have been great cars and trucks for me going back to the days of the 20r engine. I think that if a manufacturer rivaly broke out again Toyota could participate as they are more American than many domestics.
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I completely disagree that Toyota could be seen as a rival to Ford or Chevy. Where they are made has nothing to do with the hate, really. If it did, you could draw a line from the reaction on the track to the showroom. I would love to say that there is one--and in my world there is--but honestly, any reaction Toyota gets at the track is based on their presence on the track IMO. I will add that I had huge reservations about Toyota coming to NASCAR because I didn't want to hear the crap. To their credit, they handled it perfectly with great dignity and class. Jim Aust and Lee White orchestrated the entry perfectly.
 
One of the issues with the car make rivalry is the CONSUMER is just not brand loyal like they used to be. I'm a dinosaur on that front because I ONLY own GM cars and there aren't many like me today. My grandfather owned NOTHING but Buicks the last 50 years of his life. My dad is 75 and he has owned exactly one non-GM car, and that was a $200 work beater car. Now, a lot of the families I know now will have two or three different brands of cars in their driveway, and they just buy whatever strikes their fancy. I grew up when Ford VS Chevy was just as serious as the Yankees VS the Red Sox. It's taken a lot of the fun out of racing, but for better or worse, people seem to be a lot less tribal than they used to. I don't even think Packer's fans hate the Bears like they used to.
 
I've never felt any brand loyalty as far as cars go. On those rare occasions I'm forced to buy a vehicle, I'll consider cars from those brands that have provided me cars I felt were good values in the past, but I'm NOT locked into any of them. I buy cars with the intention of operating until the vehicle dies, hopefully at least a decade. Production quality can change too much over that period of time for me to assume the value is still there. I think the best vehicle I've owned was a '94 Nissan Sentra but I wouldn't look at any late-model Nissan; I don't perceive them as being worth my money.

I can't think of anything I'd buy just because my father did. Oh, wait; race tickets :).
 
I have found I can’t ever go wrong with Toyota and have 2 of them. I recently began a love affair with Subaru and have an Outback and also have a Nissan plus a Corvette. I think I will sell the Vette in the spring. I have my eye on a 370z but who knows
 
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