What Do you Think of the New Package?

StandOnIt said:
sounds like a couple of drivers think the cars are too hard to drive, I thought they were supposed to be easier?
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They get testy when they get a good ole fashioned ass whippin likeTruex put on them.
 
Spotter22 said:
They get testy when they get a good ole fashioned ass whippin likeTruex put on them.
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I think both of those prima donnas are just keeping their names in the headlines. One of them ran himself into the wall (embarrassing) and the other doesn't want the press to compare what he did last year to this year..so blame it on the package.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2019/0...ut-the-drivers-voice-is-not-being-heard-much/


Harvick also lamented how drivers don’t have the kind of leaders or communication avenues as open with NASCAR that others had in the past, most notably the late Dale Earnhardt.

“From a driver’s standpoint, in the past we started the driver’s council and that has kind of faded away this year and there’s a little frustration on the driver’s side because it has fallen on deaf ears over the past couple of years,” Harvick said. “I think a lot of Kyle’s (Busch) frustration and what he’s saying bleeds over to other drivers. You don’t feel like your voice is being heard. … The driver’s voice is not being heard very much on things when it comes to competition, especially when it comes to this particular style of rules package, and then you get to Dover and it boils over after the first 11 weeks.

“… Before Dale Sr. passed, he was the kind of guy NASCAR trusted, could go to and say things and the drivers all trusted and said we’re on board with him. I don’t really feel there’s that type of communication since Dale Sr. left. There’s no guy and no one really in the very top of the NASCAR executive side of things that has the experience inside the car that can relate to the drivers and say this is what these guys are feeling, what they’re saying and I understand their frustrations.

“It’s a very tough, tough position that everything is in right now, after all this stuff is laid on the table by the race winner, (team owner) Bob Leavine and Kyle Busch. There’s a lot of things to digest here.”


The competitors are not being heard when it comes to competing. Instead, we defer to fragile blowhards like O'Donnell.
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At least Kevin has stopped telling Phoenix how to promote their races. Guess he has something else to whine about now. :) :) :) :)
 
StandOnIt said:
I think both of those prima donnas are just keeping their names in the headlines. One of them ran himself into the wall (embarrassing) and the other doesn't want the press to compare what he did last year to this year..so blame it on the package.
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Kyle doesnt like being second fiddle at JGR, he sees the handwriting on the wall now that Pearn and Truex are figuring it out
 
Spotter22 said:
Kyle doesnt like being second fiddle at JGR, he sees the handwriting on the wall now that Pearn and Truex are figuring it out
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It won't be much better at Kansas, Truex is really good there. Those two clowns think they are running the show, well good for them, keep that attitude and somebody else will take your spots.
 
Pocono is a good addition. Darlington and Homestead though? I'm not 100% sure about those two. You also called on mid-season tweaks as well, so all to the best of the sport.
 
Still no substantive response to what Harvick and Busch have actually stated, just deliberate mischaracterizations and bizarre character assassination because they disagree. It's especially unnecessary with Harvick, as his public comments on the subject have been careful and not antaganositc. Many other drivers have made similar remarks throughout the process.

By and large, the drivers preferred low downforce by a wide margin. They were a huge part of the process that produced the 2017-2018 package. This year, much less so. It's fine to disagree with them and preach from the gospel of Steve O'Donnell. But every time one of them dares to state a contrary opinion about this thing they do professionally, even a measured one, the proper response is not to insult their intelligence and tell them to shut up and go away.
 
gnomesayin said:
Still no substantive response to what Harvick and Busch have actually stated, just deliberate mischaracterizations and bizarre character assassination because they disagree. It's especially unnecessary with Harvick, as his public comments on the subject have been careful and not antaganositc. Many other drivers have made similar remarks throughout the process.

By and large, the drivers preferred low downforce by a wide margin. They were a huge part of the process that produced the 2017-2018 package. This year, much less so. It's fine to disagree with them and preach from the gospel of Steve O'Donnell. But every time one of them dares to state a contrary opinion about this thing they do professionally, even a measured one, the proper response is not to insult their intelligence and tell them to shut up and go away.
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So Steve Odonnell is automatically wrong because he wears a NASCAR logo on his shirt? Ive made it clear I dont care how the drivers feel, we all know for a fact the OEMs, the owners, NASCAR and the drivers ( Busch, Harvick involved or not, Im not sure) were included in this pakage so this is no surprise to any of them. Also the sample size is still very small and I would imagine that if changes need to be made they will be. As for taking shots at Busch ( I havent busted on Harvick) its all in good fun and he deserves it. If he wants to state his "professional opinion" he needs to do it without using profanity that children all over no doubt heard and so did many parents. He is NOT above reproach.
 
StandOnIt said:
Oh but there is, another driver and the winning crew chief. ;) starts at about 1:55

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There you go, an actual countering opinion and completely valid. I don't demand that Austin Dillon be quiet or get replaced because that's his opinion.
 
Spotter22 said:
So Steve Odonnell is automatically wrong because he wears a NASCAR logo on his shirt? Ive made it clear I dont care how the drivers feel, we all know for a fact the OEMs, the owners, NASCAR and the drivers ( Busch, Harvick involved or not, Im not sure) were included in this pakage so this is no surprise to any of them. Also the sample size is still very small and I would imagine that if changes need to be made they will be. As for taking shots at Busch ( I havent busted on Harvick) its all in good fun and he deserves it. If he wants to state his "professional opinion" he needs to do it without using profanity that children all over no doubt heard and so did many parents. He is NOT above reproach.
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I agree that Busch's manner of expressing himself was childish, as it almost always is. O'Donnell hasn't convinced me of his acumen for the position he holds, and that's just my read on him. There are many figures, drivers included, who I trust far more than him.
 
BobbyFord said:
Oh Gods!!! Someone used profanity!!
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You might not care, but many people do. I dont know if you have kids but its no fun sitting in the car or in your house and having a top driver ( or any driver for that matter) come on and drop the f bomb and other profanity laced tirades. Hes lucky he drives in todays world, Bill Sr, Bill Jr would have put him on the sidelines.
 
Stick a microphone in a racecar drivers face after a grueling race and you're likely to hear a variety of things you don't wanna hear.
Doesn't seem to be the same scenario with ballet or synchronized swimming.
Yes, it's today's world. Bill Sr and Jr are dead.
 
BobbyFord said:
Stick a microphone in a racecar drivers face after a grueling race and you're likely to hear a variety of things you don't wanna hear.
Doesn't seem to be the same scenario with ballet or synchronized swimming.
Yes, it's today's world. Bill Sr and Jr are dead.
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Gimmie a break, they have been sticking microphones in faces of drivers for years and rarely do you hear one drop the f bomb. He acts like a petulant 10 year old. And yes the Bills are dead and thats the only reason this lug head still climbs in the window of a car. Jim needs to take a page from his old mans playbook.
 
Spotter22 said:
Gimmie a break, they have been sticking microphones in faces of drivers for years and rarely do you hear one drop the f bomb. He acts like a petulant 10 year old. And yes the Bills are dead and thats the only reason this lug head still climbs in the window of a car. Jim needs to take a page from his old mans playbook.
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Maybe you should become a NASCAR consultant; you seem to have all the answers.
 
KyBu doesn't care about good racing -- he'd gladly dominate and win every race as the only car on the lead lap (Iike all the other Drivers). So let's get past any notion that KyBu is trying to help anyone else but himself.

His stablemate drove thru the field to get the win. KyBu was outclassed and was working his worry-beads well before the start of this race.

Fine KyBu -- give him something to really cry about...
 
Ventisca said:
KyBu doesn't care about good racing -- he'd gladly dominate and win every race as the only car on the lead lap (Iike all the other Drivers). So let's get past any notion that KyBu is trying to help anyone else but himself.

His stablemate drove thru the field to get the win. KyBu was outclassed and was working his worry-beads well before the start of this race.

Fine KyBu -- give him something to really cry about...
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Same for Harvick IMO. Who died and left them boss. Chaps my hams Harvick brought Dale Sr. into his rant. Dale Sr could have just as easily said ya bunch of babies race the car.
 
Ventisca said:
KyBu doesn't care about good racing -- he'd gladly dominate and win every race as the only car on the lead lap (Iike all the other Drivers). So let's get past any notion that KyBu is trying to help anyone else but himself.

His stablemate drove thru the field to get the win. KyBu was outclassed and was working his worry-beads well before the start of this race.

Fine KyBu -- give him something to really cry about...
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He's leading the standings and has the most wins, and is an excellent momentum racer if not the best. The high downforce believers (not necessarily saying you are one) will need to find a different line of attack. Kyle certainly doesn't make it difficult, being the ass he is. However, maybe just maybe he holds an actual sincere belief as to what kind of racing rewards the best drivers, which he certainly considers himself to be at the top of the list.
 
gnomesayin said:
He's leading the standings and has the most wins, and is an excellent momentum racer if not the best. The high downforce believers (not necessarily saying you are one) will need to find a different line of attack. Kyle certainly doesn't make it difficult, being the ass he is. However, maybe just maybe he holds an actual sincere belief as to what kind of racing rewards the best drivers, which he certainly considers himself to be at the top of the list.
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If Kyle doesn't like the cars/racing, he'll be vocal about it, even when he wins.
 
Kyle is probably frustrated with this Spring race at Dover. Although this was his best finish in a number of years.
2011 -- 4
2012 -- 29
2013 -- 4
2014 -- 42
2015 -- 36
2016 -- 30
2017 -- 16
2018 -- 35
2019 -- 10
 
gnomesayin said:
True. And when I hear someone with credibility defend high downforce and / or low power racing, I listen. Even Austin Dillon, who is hardly on par with Busch or Harvick. I'm not going to trash him just because I disagree.
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I noticed you didn't mention what Pearn said. Especially that part where he said the racing was just like last year with the no downforce package.
 
gnomesayin said:
True. And when I hear someone with credibility defend high downforce and / or low power racing, I listen. Even Austin Dillon, who is hardly on par with Busch or Harvick. I'm not going to trash him just because I disagree.
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If you read back I never addressed his opinion on the package that I recall, just the way he goes about it.
 
StandOnIt said:
I noticed you didn't mention what Pearn said. Especially that part where he said the racing was just like last year with the no downforce package.
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I didn't mean not to. His statements have conflicted at different times, as have Truex's, but I certainly want him to be free to speak his mind, good or bad.
 
It's ironic that all this media angst about 'The Package' comes after one-mile Dover. As SOI pointed out, the Dover motors still make 750 HP, and the key elements of driving and racing the cars are less affected by the aero rules changes than at bigger tracks. The 2019 rules originated for the 1.5ers/2.0ers, not for Dover.

One thing is certain... the aero rules did not create a 10 second margin of victory. Clean air has nothing to do with 10 second gaps. By the time Truex had pulled ahead by 2 or 3 seconds, the trailing car also had clean air... and yet Truex continued to pull ahead... because he was faster.

Don't know about y'all, but I will be more unhappy about 'The Package' at Kansas than at Dover... anemic power, heavy drag, glued down by downforce, WFO droning around, driving skills de-emphasized.
 
LewTheShoe said:
It's ironic that all this media angst about 'The Package' comes after one-mile Dover. As SOI pointed out, the Dover motors still make 750 HP, and the key elements of driving and racing the cars are less affected by the aero rules changes than at bigger tracks. The 2019 rules originated for the 1.5ers/2.0ers, not for Dover.

One thing is certain... the aero rules did not create a 10 second margin of victory. Clean air has nothing to do with 10 second gaps. By the time Truex had pulled ahead by 2 or 3 seconds, the trailing car also had clean air... and yet Truex continued to pull ahead... because he was faster.

Don't know about y'all, but I will be more unhappy about 'The Package' at Kansas than at Dover... anemic power, heavy drag, glued down by downforce, WFO droning around, driving skills de-emphasized.
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that's is what I pointed out earlier. cars were faster than hell, harder than stink to drive, faster then ever, Truex stunk up the show passed everybody at least once and ya got all this? This was right down the ally of the more speed crowd and still they complain. Pearn said the race was the same as last year. Hello? I said the same thing many times but what do I know.
 
BobbyFord said:
How do you have clean air in lapped traffic?
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I've been wanting to ask the TV booth crews that question for a couple of years. Don't tell me a driver will get clean air by moving into the lead, not when the race is at Bristol or Dover or some other place where being in the lead just puts you up the tailpipe of lapped traffic.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I've been wanting to ask the TV booth crews that question for a couple of years. Don't tell me a driver will get clean air by moving into the lead, not when the race is at Bristol or Dover or some other place where being in the lead just puts you up the tailpipe of lapped traffic.
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You have to move your car half a lane (or more) up or down to get clean air on the nose. That comes straight out of the mouth of the drivers.
That creates a problem at tracks with one fast groove.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I've been wanting to ask the TV booth crews that question for a couple of years. Don't tell me a driver will get clean air by moving into the lead, not when the race is at Bristol or Dover or some other place where being in the lead just puts you up the tailpipe of lapped traffic.
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It's yet another vague question that has many variables.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I've been wanting to ask the TV booth crews that question for a couple of years. Don't tell me a driver will get clean air by moving into the lead, not when the race is at Bristol or Dover or some other place where being in the lead just puts you up the tailpipe of lapped traffic.
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Ive been telling you guys, "dirty air", aero push" is code for hes faster then me. ;)
 
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