Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

I still think the following is the most obvious solution:
Uh then you risk SVG winning the championship by just winning all the road courses, and maybe running near the back most of the season. That's why that's a horrible idea.

One less win for Denny and we would be looking at a champion not even top 20 in non playoff points this season.
 
Uh then you risk SVG winning the championship by just winning all the road courses, and maybe running near the back most of the season. That's why that's a horrible idea.

One less win for Denny and we would be looking at a champion not even top 20 in non playoff points this season.
So you are implying that road course wins don't count the same as the other races?
 
So you are implying that road course wins don't count the same as the other races?
No? I'm saying that the most wins shouldn't be what crowns a champion....nowhere did I imply such a thing. I was SAYING that SVG could win the championship under that format with 6 wins(if he wins all the road courses in a season) but be below 20th in points because he ran bad everywhere else.. I'd say the same if someone won all 6 Super Speedway races and was below 20th, or just 6 random races at different tracks.

In short. Crown a champion by who gets the most points over the season. Not wins, not who wins the right races. Just who's the best from race 1 to race 36.
 
No? I'm saying that the most wins shouldn't be what crowns a champion....nowhere did I imply such a thing. I was SAYING that SVG could win the championship under that format with 6 wins(if he wins all the road courses in a season) but be below 20th in points because he ran bad everywhere else.. I'd say the same if someone won all 6 Super Speedway races and was below 20th, or just 6 random races at different tracks.

In short. Crown a champion by who gets the most points over the season. Not wins, not who wins the right races. Just who's the best from race 1 to race 36.
Like when Newman won 5 races and Kenseth won only one race but because of points, Kenseth won the title. (like what was suggested before all this back and forth)
 
Like when Newman won 5 races and Kenseth won only one race but because of points, Kenseth won the title. (like what was suggested before all this back and forth)
Yes..that's what I want.

I was replying to a post, that was saying the champion should be who has the most wins, saying that's not a good idea.
 
Like when Newman won 5 races and Kenseth won only one race but because of points, Kenseth won the title. (like what was suggested before all this back and forth)
Newman actually won 8 races compared to 1 win for Kenseth. But Newman also had a lot more races where he finished close to 40th position. Refer to the link at the end of this post.

I favor a full season point system but that doesn't mean that the old system was perfect. I would like to see more bonus points for winning and there should be a larger gap from P2 to P1, than P40 to P39.
I think the awarded points should be progressive to increase more between the top postions.

But even with the flaws, it would still be better than any of the resets.

 
Uh then you risk SVG winning the championship by just winning all the road courses, and maybe running near the back most of the season. That's why that's a horrible idea.

One less win for Denny and we would be looking at a champion not even top 20 in non playoff points this season.

I don’t know man, we could just call it the Ricky Bobby Cup.
 
I would like the full season point system to be restored as previously stated.

But they could still do a 10-race tournament like or similar to the current one. They could even pay more money to win the reset tournament.

Just don't use the resets to determine the championship. The historical record deserves better.
 
The historical record deserves better.
That is one of the saddest parts of this whole years of the playoff game show contest mess. They threw away almost a whole generation of driver statistics on who can win the lottery, I don't care if it is 10 races or the mess they have today, it just different shades of B.S. to me at this point.
 
there should be a larger gap from P2 to P1, than P40 to P39.
I think the awarded points should be progressive to increase more between the top postions.
The old system was progressive. I recall 5 point separation between the first five positions, 4 between the next five, and three between the rest. Also, running last resulted in ... 40 points? More than today's single point, so being last wasn't as damaging.

The big 'advantage' over Brian Z's current system was that it was supposed to be easier for fans to understand. 1) Fans don't seem to have a problem understanding the points systems in other forms of motorsports, or any other sports. 2) NASCAR eventually complicated it up to today's plate of spaghetti.
 
The old system was progressive. I recall 5 point separation between the first five positions, 4 between the next five, and three between the rest. Also, running last resulted in ... 40 points? More than today's single point, so being last wasn't as damaging.

The big 'advantage' over Brian Z's current system was that it was supposed to be easier for fans to understand. 1) Fans don't seem to have a problem understanding the points systems in other forms of motorsports, or any other sports. 2) NASCAR eventually complicated it up to today's plate of spaghetti.
Agreed but I would more of a bonus for winning and even for making the poduim (to a lesser degree)
 
Agreed but I would more of a bonus for winning and even for making the poduim (to a lesser degree)
Yeah, I wasn't endorsing a return to the old points, just saying it had been progressive. But diving into the the point system is a whole 'nuther can of Sunoco Racing Fuel.
 
Pretty damning evidence has come out the last couple days, let's see if Nascar grows a pair and does something about it. It's way past time to do something about manufactor manipulation in the races. It's ramped up considerably since playoffs began.
Well you must be talking Ford and ChevroRick here because I watched Hamlin being anything but manipulated the last two weeks.
 
No? I'm saying that the most wins shouldn't be what crowns a champion....nowhere did I imply such a thing. I was SAYING that SVG could win the championship under that format with 6 wins(if he wins all the road courses in a season) but be below 20th in points because he ran bad everywhere else.. I'd say the same if someone won all 6 Super Speedway races and was below 20th, or just 6 random races at different tracks.

In short. Crown a champion by who gets the most points over the season. Not wins, not who wins the right races. Just who's the best from race 1 to race 36.
A good shot at that happening this year. Imagine that. All of this angst for nothing.
 
That is one of the saddest parts of this whole years of the playoff game show contest mess. They threw away almost a whole generation of driver statistics on who can win the lottery, I don't care if it is 10 races or the mess they have today, it just different shades of B.S. to me at this point.

How do you feel about some of the convoluted messes that predated the Latford system?

A championship is a championship. Nothing is tainted.
 
This is the 2024 points final without any playoff resets. Note Logano's position.
1759939433811.png

1759939485722.png

1759939547050.png

 
Well you must be talking Ford and ChevroRick here because I watched Hamlin being anything but manipulated the last two weeks.
You can say that again. Hamlin is the best thing Ford has going for them. I think Hamlin has a special love for Logano. Hamlin knocks fellow yota driver Wallace into the wall when an effort to make the corner in his lane would have been a win as an owner with Wallace and it would have taken Logano out of the playoffs. The next week Hamlin passes Chastain and that gives his Ford buddy Logano a spot in the next round.
 
A championship is a championship. Nothing is tainted.

As I posted earlier, it isn't the fault of the drivers or teams who won them. They didn't ask for the clown show format and don't deserve to be tainted. However, the history and legacy of the series have been compromised. The playoffs championships have less weight and validity in that context. It's a shame. It can't be fixed retroactively, only going forward.
 
Tainted? It's printed in black and white 5 posts up. It's a point system that allows a legit 11th place car to win a championship over way better performing drivers. IDK about anybody else but that spells and smells tainted to me.

I'm still burnt up about Buescher. He was in the playoffs until a last place driver won the plate race with win and you are in. That froze his points and the ability to move any higher the 17th.
 
Welp, we have 41 pages pointing out mostly by every post saying that it is, glad you are here.

We have 41 pages of people (mostly you) acting like their opinion should govern the legitimacy of a championship format.

You can be anti-playoffs while still being an adult and acknowledging that they are a legitimate but flawed way of determine a champion.
 
We have 41 pages of people (mostly you) acting like their opinion should govern the legitimacy of a championship format.

You can be anti-playoffs while still being an adult and acknowledging that they are a legitimate but flawed way of determine a champion.
We have some very knowledgeable people posting in this thread, some R-F guys are really knowledgeable about the sport, there are racing celebrities posts, past Nascar champions and drivers postings. Lets not forget them with your rants. They aren't saying this points format is legitimate either, but you are saying it is, some others don't have a problem with it either. You have options like the rest of us. Don't look at the thread, or post your opinions on the thread, or push the ignore button. You aren't going to change my opinion or will I change yours. I wouldn't get too snarky though.
 
We have some very knowledgeable people posting in this thread, some R-F guys are really knowledgeable about the sport, there are racing celebrities posts, past Nascar champions and drivers postings. Lets not forget them with your rants. They aren't saying this points format is legitimate either, but you are saying it is, some others don't have a problem with it either. You have options like the rest of us. Don't look at the thread, or post your opinions on the thread, or push the ignore button. You aren't going to change my opinion or will I change yours. I wouldn't get too snarky though.

Honest question for you: What do you make of the legitimacy of Richard Petty’s first four championships?

A lot of the people you’re citing are criticizing the playoffs without attacking the legitimacy of the championships.
 
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