23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

virtualbalboa said:
Alright, given what we've all seen in this trial and that we all know that Jim France was the obstacle to the charter negotiations, is there anyone at all who actually believes that the settlement wasn't largely influenced by Jim France finally going up on the stand and s#itting the bed in front of the world? This dude wound up dragging his family and his company through the mud for months and for what? It's obvious he wanted this trial and thought it was going to go his way like everything else in his life.

I would personally love to hear a defense of Jim France's management of NASCAR through this and up to this point. Would be fascinating.
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For YEARS I was a big Jim France supporter, but after he stabbed a LOT of Grand Am, teams, drivers, and especially fans, I lost a lot of respect for him. Still, I thought him taking the reins of NASCAR was going to be a positive thing, but I feel like he set out to prove me wrong at every turn. After getting a peak behind the curtain of things he really said, and the culture he allowed to fester inside HQ, at this point I wouldn't wiz on his gums if his mouth was on fire.
 
gnomesayin said:
Those are legitimate concerns. They don't justify NASCAR's anticompetive behavior, but they are valid. I think Kelley Earnhardt Miller was on point in the podcast she and Dale Jr. did when she stated that at the root of all of this was the need to fix the team ownership model. NASCAR didn't do enough soon enough to fix it, and the lawsuit was the end result.

There are other and perhaps better ways to have fixed the team ownership financial model, but once committed to a charter system, temporary charters were not tenable.
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My thoughts exactly. I was NEVER in favor of the charter model, but once we went down that path, permanence was the ONLY logical answer. You can't have people investing that kind of money with the risk of getting the rug pulled out from under them. It's going to change the dynamics of future negotiations in the future too, which based on what triggered this lawsuit, is a GOOD thing.
 
wi_racefan said:
I don't think its as much of a reach as you think for the casual fans. They see FedEx and Denny and all of a sudden the leap isn't that far.

I cant tell you how many times I was watching an Xfinity race and my wife or dad would ask "is this the big race?" (They don't even know series names) and I'll reply no and then they say oh I saw so and so in it and thought it was the big race
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Those cars are closer at least, and is STILL NASCAR. The SRX cars look nothing a like. Plus if fans are such casuals they don't know the series name, they aren't watching enough to matter.
 
Blaze said:
Those cars are closer at least, and is STILL NASCAR. The SRX cars look nothing a like. Plus if fans are such casuals they don't know the series name, they aren't watching enough to matter.
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at some point everyone here was a casual fan
 
gnomesayin said:
Some of us maintained from the beginning that all of the teams would benefit from this action. That is exactly what happened.
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I've held the belief from the beginning that this was a "proxy war". The letters from other teams and then a major sponsor surely show that while they weren't directly involved in the suit, they backed the suit. As they should, because any positive outcome for 23/XI & FRM would trickle down to them too.
 
Hawaii808 said:
I've held the belief from the beginning that this was a "proxy war". The letters from other teams and then a major sponsor surely show that while they weren't directly involved in the suit, they backed the suit. As they should, because any positive outcome for 23/XI & FRM would trickle down to them too.
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I agree, but it was still pretty cowardly for the rest to let the other two twist in the wind like that. Not a particularly proud moment for ANY of them, especially the heavy hitters.
 
Hawaii808 said:
So I guess the half (or so) season of open status in 2025 will remain that way. This suggests the pay out to the teams won't be prorated to charter status numbers.
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I'm not real sure I would have agreed to that. They should have been made whole.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not real sure I would have agreed to that. They should have been made whole.
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I agree, but if this helped in reaching a resolution, it's worth it. Give a little to get a lot. We probably won't hear for a while, but I wonder who's paying how much to the lawyers.

My Father worked his whole adult life in labor relations. Union>Labor Consultant>Federal Mediator and he said that in a good compromise neither side was completely happy.
 
Formerjackman said:
I agree, but it was still pretty cowardly for the rest to let the other two twist in the wind like that. Not a particularly proud moment for ANY of them, especially the heavy hitters.
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MJ has always been a push all the chips to the center of the table kind of guy. Everyone isn't built that way.
 
Did I miss something or was it mentioned early on after the settlement some terms were verboten. If that were the case the arrangement(s) between 23XI, FRM and NASCAR, other than those made public, are under seal and most likely include who paid how much to whom. and for what.

This wasn't all about Denny Hamlin. It was about equity for all charter teams. Call Denny names but his actions were not for his sole benefit. 23XI and FRM stood against an established monopoly for the betterment of all charter teams. Everyone with a charter benefits.
 
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Danny Rae
 
Hawaii808 said:
So I guess the half (or so) season of open status in 2025 will remain that way. This suggests the pay out to the teams won't be prorated to charter status numbers.
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The financial portion of the settlement will remain confidential. But given the direction that all of these modified charter terms swing, and given the beaming smile on Jordan's face, one could reasonably deduce that 23XI and FRM recovered a fair amount there too.
 
The question has to be asked is when JGR will cut ties with Denny: sometime soon or after this coming season? Denny made them all look bad and I can't imagine him being an employee of JGR much longer.
 
Spotter22 said:
I'm sure the race teams will increase employee wages across the board now, right?
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Well, NASCAR and their defenders have been in here for a minute saying that the teams need to cut costs. The top line cost for just about every business is personnel. My guess is they're mostly happy to not be as concerned about laying people off. In fact, they're more likely now to need more staff.
 
Spotter22 said:
The other teams didn't have Jordan.
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True, but why did it take Denny to get Jordan involved, when he's been a fan for years, and regardless, Denny really put himself out there while just about everyone was hiding in their offices or wherever. Denny could have just pussed out like everyone else and kept quiet, but he didn't, and I LOVE people who challenge the status quo.
 
DIDIT said:
I am sure the bean counters already have plans to show that this racing biz is not profitable. Hopefully now 23XI can build a real racing shop.
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For me, the question was never really whether the teams NEEDED the money, you can play that game all day long. For me it was a question of whether they DESERVE a bigger piece of the pie, and I believe they do. I am also sympathetic to the fact that the "cost saving" car has been anything but. That alone deserves some further compensation. Besides, NASCAR deserves to take a financial hit just for being such total douche bags during the entire process.
 
Formerjackman said:
For YEARS I was a big Jim France supporter, but after he stabbed a LOT of Grand Am, teams, drivers, and especially fans, I lost a lot of respect for him. Still, I thought him taking the reins of NASCAR was going to be a positive thing, but I feel like he set out to prove me wrong at every turn. After getting a peak behind the curtain of things he really said, and the culture he allowed to fester inside HQ, at this point I wouldn't wiz on his gums if his mouth was on fire.
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I’ll just say that I’ve been really disappointed in Jim. I naively thought he would put some things right. Boy was I wrong!
 
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