Let's talk Stage Racing

gnomesayin said:
Those are qualifying races, not scheduled breaks in the main event to manufacture closer competition. I can tell you're enough of an all around racing fan to know the difference. If I were to go to a Lucas Oil late model or USMTS modified or WOO race and they started pulling that BS with their feature events, I'd seek out other series that weren't doing it.

I stated last year that if NASCAR thinks they have to run heats and features or twin races due to short attention spans, I don't think it's necessary but would accept it as a legitimate format choice.
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most people aren't considering that regarding the commercial side of the equation, the stages permit viewers to see more of the racing. The numbers and length of commercials are similar. But you hear continually 8 minutes for a stage break waaa. Don't count the laps waaa. We are seeing more of the race now, but with the exception of a few it is the same whiners that complained that the commercials were covering up the racing..In fact we have some here that don't even know there was a change made. :D
 
I like that they award points for being consistent throughout the year and it counts in the playoff. Plus teams run hard for those points.

I don't like the cautions at the end of segments, there is no reason for them other than a commercial timeout. Teams adjust their strategy to the cautions which puts most teams on the same strategy.
 
Zerkfitting said:
I don't like the cautions at the end of segments, there is no reason for them other than a commercial timeout. Teams adjust their strategy to the cautions which puts most teams on the same strategy.
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There is a reason for them: NASCAR's prevailing belief that the only way to provide racing that doesn't bore their audience is through more and more double-file restarts, Lucky Dogs, etc. It's whether you consider that reason valid that is the issue.

Stages were devised because the caution clock was unpopular. The points were thrown in to make them more palatable and get the drivers on board. There will soon be more stages and likely a scheduled break late in the race, and it has nothing to do with "rewarding consistency" throughout the race.
 
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Zerkfitting said:
I like that they award points for being consistent throughout the year and it counts in the playoff. Plus teams run hard for those points.

I don't like the cautions at the end of segments, there is no reason for them other than a commercial timeout. Teams adjust their strategy to the cautions which puts most teams on the same strategy.
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so what is your solution for commercials then? Have them back like the way they were and miss close to 30 minutes or more of racing?
 
gnomesayin said:
Time will tell, let's bookmark it, I'll check back in with you.
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I'll go with changes, but I don't have a clue what they will be. They are changing the car next year, they continue to evolve, some have a problem with any changes, some don't like specific changes on and on. But trying to compare the caution clock to the stages? that is a stretch. yeah it was a break in the racing, trying to lessen the jump many of the youngsters who came from the lower series that have an actual break in the middle of their races for a pit stop to having them on the fly in the truck series was the reason for it.
 
If stages weren't a replacement or evolution of the caution clock concept that NASCAR was testing in the Truck Series, then why did the caution clock disappear immediately after stages were introduced?

Steve-O was already talking about adding another stage being on the table back in May. Who knows what else they'll cook up by January 2018 or January 2019.

People saying they like the stages but not the caution have been misled, because the cautions are the real purpose of the stages. For NASCAR, taking the caution out of the stage would be like non-alcoholic beer. ;)
 
I think the stages were more of a compromise between losing the race time for commercials and shifting commercial time to the stages. There were a lot of complaints about racing time being lost because of all of the commercials. The caution clock wasn't working in the trucks. The drivers didn't like it and neither did the fans.
 
Allenbaba said:
I think every driver I've spoken to likes it. Some have told me they think this current system is the best it's ever been. Rewards being fast all race, rewards winning, rewards being great all season.
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Thanks for posting this, Allenbaba. Good to know that.

To me, the best thing about the stages is that the points awarded are a mechanism for consistent front runners to gain meaningful points separation from mid-field runners. That has never been possible before, due to the near-linear points scale that stretches from first place to last place. A points scale like that *always* under-rewards the best teams and props up the mid-field teams. I've been unhappy about that for 40 years, as it rewards a "coast and collect" points racing mentality.

The 2017 points system is better than 2014-16 in every way. I'm OK with the stage breaks too. They create interesting strategy plays in some races, and competitive highlights fighting for the stage wins in some races. And they improve TV viewing because there are the same amount of commercials, but more of them are under yellow.

I'm not one who previously complained about the races being boring in the middle, but such complaints were rampant, even here on this forum. That is why the media is near-unanimous is liking the stages, and I believe a large majority of fans agree.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Thanks for posting this, Allenbaba. Good to know that.

To me, the best thing about the stages is that the points awarded are a mechanism for consistent front runners to gain meaningful points separation from mid-field runners. That has never been possible before, due to the near-linear points scale that stretches from first place to last place. A points scale like that *always* under-rewards the best teams and props up the mid-field teams. I've been unhappy about that for 40 years, as it rewards a "coast and collect" points racing mentality.

The 2017 points system is better than 2014-16 in every way. I'm OK with the stage breaks too. They create interesting strategy plays in some races, and competitive highlights fighting for the stage wins in some races. And they improve TV viewing because there are the same amount of commercials, but more of them are under yellow.

I'm not one who previously complained about the races being boring in the middle, but such complaints were rampant, even here on this forum. That is why the media is near-unanimous is liking the stages, and I believe a large majority of fans agree.
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One of the loudest complaints was that the driver who had the best points before the playoffs wasn't awarded anything for doing so, and if he lost the last race he won nothing. I think next year the regular season winner won't do what Truex did when he won it. One can hope anyway.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I'm not one who previously complained about the races being boring in the middle, but such complaints were rampant, even here on this forum. That is why the media is near-unanimous is liking the stages, and I believe a large majority of fans agree.
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I know this is speculative, but what will your stance be if:

1. NASCAR moves closer to a 'four quarters' approach with stages? Are more stages a positive change, negative, no difference?

2. A late race break of some kind is instituted, whether it's called a stage or something else?

I believe #1 is almost a certainty within two years, and #2 is only a possibility, but a real one.
 
^ I'm not in favor of more stages, and would prefer less in trucks and Xfinity due to their shorter races. Speculation is pointless IMO, no pun intended.
 
LewTheShoe said:
^ I'm not in favor of more stages, and would prefer less in trucks and Xfinity due to their shorter races. Speculation is pointless IMO, no pun intended.
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they don't crown the regular season winner I don't think in either series. yes I agree whole heartily, speculation is pointless, but some make a habit out of it for gimmicky drama. ya see how I got that in there?:D The irony of the it all. :D
 
StandOnIt said:
... you get to see more racing with the change. ...
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Ya know, I'm not sure about that.

Here's a hypothetical example based on these assumptions:
100-lap race
Commercial time equal to 10 laps
Race runs green except for stage cautions

No stages: 100 laps run - 10 laps of commercials = 90 laps of racing on TV.
Stages: 100 laps run - 10 laps of commercials while race is run under stage caution = 90 laps of racing

We're seeing a higher percentage of green flag racing, but the total number of green flag laps is smaller. We've traded missing green flag laps for turning them into yellow flag laps.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Ya know, I'm not sure about that.

Here's a hypothetical example based on these assumptions:
100-lap race
Commercial time equal to 10 laps
Race runs green except for stage cautions

No stages: 100 laps run - 10 laps of commercials = 90 laps of racing on TV.
Stages: 100 laps run - 10 laps of commercials while race is run under stage caution = 90 laps of racing

We're seeing a higher percentage of green flag racing, but the total number of green flag laps is smaller. We've traded missing green flag laps for turning them into yellow flag laps.
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Stop confusing the issue with logic lol.

I have no issue with folks that prefer to watch Nascar races live but I highly recommend DVR'ing the race just once to check it out and see if it is something worthwhile. Of course if you DVR the race you can't watch the race on the tube while checking the leader board on your PC so you can check the intervals between Cole Whitt and Jeffrey Earnhardt.............:XXROFL:
 
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Racing part alone, needs to be an even 1/3 of laps for each stage. It's crap that you can load up on points in the first half of the race with a good car. I do like them however
 
I like the stage racing, one reason is the drivers are rewarded for their efforts and not penalized so much should they go all out for the win and fail. I also like the idea that the top driver in points for the 26 race season gets the pole and first choice of pit stalls for the final race. Having said that, I would like to see the "Lottery Champion" done away with.
Commercials are the biggest complaint I read on here and that could be partially solved by simply showing the race and the commercial at the same time in an equally split screen top and bottom
with the sound track being the difference. The sound of a good commercial would be easier to take than the announcers at times.
NO Pitting under caution solves most problems.
 
Team Penske said:
...
Commercials are the biggest complaint I read on here and that could be partially solved by simply showing the race and the commercial at the same time in an equally split screen top and bottom with the sound track being the difference. The sound of a good commercial would be easier to take than the announcers at times. ...
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I think we'd all love to see that, but good luck getting sponsor buy-in on that one.

I recall seeing a World Cup soccer match 12 years or so ago where the game occupied the upper left 3/4ths of the screen for the entire match while ads running along the right and bottom side. Graphics only, no ad audio at all. World Cup has a big enough audience that it can dictate those terms to its advertisers. The NFL might be able to mandate that in this country but they have so many built-in interruptions that there's no need. Nobody else in the US has that kind of pull, not even NASCAR at its most popular.
 
Most of that can be accomplished by a Nascar Race channel. Nascar itself produces the racing segments and sells sponsor time which they control. They can also dictate other shows because they would have copy right AND they can control the costs to the fans. They also would have control of the Apps for those using phones and tablets.
I think a lot of fans would download an app especially if your only charged by the number of races you sign in for. This lends itself to other related racing shows and Fox and NBC would have to pay Nascar for them to show copy righted material.
The problem with this method is that Nascar would have to convene a think tank on the matter instead of using the spur of the moment decisions as they do now.
My son uses Pay Per View for some shows he likes at $40-$60 per pop and then about six guys chip in ten dollars each. Nascar could learn a lot from others instead of just selling the rights. They did great this time round but they won't get another one like it. Same as they won't get another big season sponsor. IMO
 
I compare stage racing to our fireplace in our 5th wheel trailer. At first I thought it was kind of cheesy, but after experiencing both I give them...
images
 
Looks like a lot of you don't really realize what the stages are for..

Though it may help create some excitement (not really) it was put in place to help the most consistent drivers throughout the season have a better shot at the title.

..and it has most definitely accomplished that. As soon as I heard of it I liked it for that reason and after watching a season play out under these rules I appreciate it even more. IMO this is the best rule change NASCAR has made in the past 5-10 years.

This coming from an extremely biased point of view in favor of a driver that has had next to no success this season. If I can find the good in it after this season I'm sure some of you can too lol
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Looks like a lot of you don't really realize what the stages are for..

Though it may help create some excitement (not really) it was put in place to help the most consistent drivers throughout the season have a better shot at the title.

..and it has most definitely accomplished that. As soon as I heard of it I liked it for that reason and after watching a season play out under these rules I appreciate it even more. IMO this is the best rule change NASCAR has made in the past 5-10 years.

This coming from an extremely biased point of view in favor of a driver that has had next to no success this season. If I can find the good in it after this season I'm sure some of you can too lol
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Ummm....NO
 
LewTheShoe said:
Thanks for posting this, Allenbaba. Good to know that.

To me, the best thing about the stages is that the points awarded are a mechanism for consistent front runners to gain meaningful points separation from mid-field runners. That has never been possible before, due to the near-linear points scale that stretches from first place to last place. A points scale like that *always* under-rewards the best teams and props up the mid-field teams. I've been unhappy about that for 40 years, as it rewards a "coast and collect" points racing mentality.

The 2017 points system is better than 2014-16 in every way. I'm OK with the stage breaks too. They create interesting strategy plays in some races, and competitive highlights fighting for the stage wins in some races. And they improve TV viewing because there are the same amount of commercials, but more of them are under yellow.

I'm not one who previously complained about the races being boring in the middle, but such complaints were rampant, even here on this forum. That is why the media is near-unanimous is liking the stages, and I believe a large majority of fans agree.
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Large # of fans like it? You sure?
 
StandOnIt said:
so what is your solution for commercials then? Have them back like the way they were and miss close to 30 minutes or more of racing?
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I don't know what is the right solution or the proper mix. The race itself is an advertisement with 40 billboards on the track. And brand names are often mentioned and shown during the broadcast.
 
jws926 said:
But did you like the stage racing?, did you feel it made the racing better?
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No.
I think it stunk up the show.
It would be better to encourage passing and "fights" for
The lead.
Like the old days!
 
LewTheShoe said:
^ I'm not in favor of more stages, and would prefer less in trucks and Xfinity due to their shorter races. Speculation is pointless IMO, no pun intended.
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C'mon man! Speculation is what keeps things going!!
 
I'm opposed to scheduled caution periods. Not only for sporting reasons, but they're too lengthy, worse than normal cautions - pit, commercial, TV interviews, radio interviews, commercial, green flag. All for nothing actually needing to be cleaned up.

I'm not opposed to handing out some points during the race to help incentivize the early stages of races a little more, but I do think the idea that drivers used to sandbag a ton was blown out of proportion and those that did conserve a little probably did so with debris cautions in mind. I saw a tweet this past weekend from an active driver (not full-time NASCAR) who was watching and scoffed at the notion one of the NBC guys laid out that a certain driver was giving only 80-90%, saying that when drivers leave something on the table it's more in the 97-98% range. And if anyone were giving 80% they'd be lapped almost immediately.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
What made points matter was that they carried over from one playoff stage to the next, not resetting everyone equal after each stage.
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I like how the stage and playoff points rewarded the drivers for regular season performance, as well as the bonus points given out at the end of the regular season based on points position. Much better than the measly 3 points per win that were wiped clean after the first round.
 
I just want to repeat this, and a bit louder in bold, 'cause I agree 1000%.
ToyYoda said:
I like how the stage and playoff points rewarded the drivers for regular season performance, as well as the bonus points given out at the end of the regular season based on points position. Much better than the measly 3 points per win that were wiped clean after the first round.
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