Let's talk Stage Racing

StandOnIt said:
2016 Phoenix..51minutes regular and split screen commercials. 2017 Phoenix 48 minutes for both.Pretty close to the same number, but you get to see more racing with the change. There has been some different strategy's played out because of the stages. I like the restarts, it breaks up the race.
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It is a real shame that the racing is so poor people want scheduled cautions so they can have the excitement that ensues for about 1 lap after a restart. That is what we have got to today but instead of patching things with gimmicks why not fix the problem?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't feel strongly either way. I do object to having the caution laps count. Either don't count them or (preferably) stay green.
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This , I dont hate it, I dont love it, I can say this, at first I thought it was one of the dumbest bleeping things NASCAR could come up with , it has grown on me enough that I no longer think its the dumbest bleeping thing they could come up with, and I do think its made the drivers actual race the entire race , so that is a plus.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I will say this, the one positive of stage racing is that it did get the most consistent driver to the final 4, which is Martin Truex Jr.
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It could have easily been a system that was tailor made for the skill set of Truex and his CC too. There are several ways to look at it.

jws926 said:
But did you like the stage racing?, did you feel it made the racing better?
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I don't feel it made any noticeable difference in the racing.
 
Meh, only a few times did I see a driver push a little harder, and at a few of the bigger tracks the stages were used to play the pit early game. If anything the stages made me realize how dull the first 80% of a race can be, similar to the first three and a half quarters of an nba game.

I’d rather they have one caution within the first 100 miles, and that is the only caution you can pit. Also get rid of the repair clock and just pull drivers off the track once they go three laps down. No driver deserves to win a race after going three laps down, regardless of the circumstances. This is the only motor sport where it can possibly happen and it is a joke.
 
joe h said:
Meh, only a few times did I see a driver push a little harder, and at a few of the bigger tracks the stages were used to play the pit early game. If anything the stages made me realize how dull the first 80% of a race can be, similar to the first three and a half quarters of an nba game.

I’d rather they have one caution within the first 100 miles, and that is the only caution you can pit. Also get rid of the repair clock and just pull drivers off the track once they go three laps down. No driver deserves to win a race after going three laps down, regardless of the circumstances. This is the only motor sport where it can possibly happen and it is a joke.
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This 5 minute rule on pit road is a friggin' joke.......... screw 'em....... being able to work on the car and get back out to get extra points has always been a big deal and a big plus........ 1 Friggin' point can make a huge difference...... look at Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards..... they tied in points....... had Carl finished 1 stinking position ahead in any of the final 10 races....... under this He would have won the Cup........ Nascar and Brian have screwed the pooch these last few years...... (actually Brian has been in a drunken stupor since his dad turned over the reigns to him)......... I don't see it getting any better..........under this format...... there is no way a team can repair a car in 5 minutes.........
 
kymartin6 said:
This 5 minute rule on pit road is a friggin' joke.......... screw 'em....... being able to work on the car and get back out to get extra points has always been a big deal and a big plus........ 1 Friggin' point can make a huge difference...... look at Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards..... they tied in points....... had Carl finished 1 stinking position ahead in any of the final 10 races....... He would have won the Cup........ Nascar and Brian have screwed the pooch these last few years...... (actually Brian has been in a drunken stupor since his dad turned over the reigns to him)......... I don't see it getting any better..........
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I agree, not a fan of the five minute clock but I agree with what NASCAR was trying to do with it, I think it needs some fine tuning still maybe.
 
jws926 said:
I agree, not a fan of the five minute clock but I agree with what NASCAR was trying to do with it, I think it needs some fine tuning still maybe.
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I hate the 5 minute clock...... they were trying to eliminate the guys that were wrecked and came back out limping along........ but..... it was overkill...... as Nascar most time does......
 
They made this decision and sent out Bob Backlund, Andre the Giant, The Iron Sheik, and Ric Flair to tell us how great it was going to be. They were all consulted. I bought it, because what else am I to do? It adds something and detracts something at the same time. I'm not going to bail on the sport because I am a mark. There are many like me.
 
Hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!! More power to a team that busted ass to get a car back to the garage........ worked like hell to get them back out to gain 1 more position ......... Used to 1 friggin' position meant a lot ........ now you have to win........
 
Does anyone know if the amount of "debris" caution went down this season compared to last season?
 
joe h said:
I’d rather they have one caution within the first 100 miles, and that is the only caution you can pit. Also get rid of the repair clock and just pull drivers off the track once they go three laps down. No driver deserves to win a race after going three laps down, regardless of the circumstances.
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Doesn’t like stage racing but wants staged races. Interesting.

Somebody should tell Bill Elliott about the winning / deserving from laps down thing.
 
If somebody wins a race from a lap or two - or three - down in this day and age, then it must be well worth watching. Drives like that are always commendable.
Bill Elliott is out there, somewhere, laughing at that idea... and Dale Sr. knew a thing or two about how it felt to move through the field too. :cool:
 
BobbyFord said:
I’m going to guess yes because with the stage cautions there is less need for fake cautions.
Just guessing.
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I was also wondering if the "5 minute" rule also helped with keeping debris off the track.
 
I didn't mind the stage racing. I prefer stages over the phantom debri cautions. Don't care for the 5 minute clock, but I understand why they have it. I wonder how the sponsors feel about it. Loved it when stenhouse moved the 18 before the end of a stage earlier in the year.
 
kymartin6 said:
This 5 minute rule on pit road is a friggin' joke.......... screw 'em....... being able to work on the car and get back out to get extra points has always been a big deal and a big plus........ 1 Friggin' point can make a huge difference...... look at Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards..... they tied in points....... had Carl finished 1 stinking position ahead in any of the final 10 races....... under this He would have won the Cup........ Nascar and Brian have screwed the pooch these last few years...... (actually Brian has been in a drunken stupor since his dad turned over the reigns to him)......... I don't see it getting any better..........under this format...... there is no way a team can repair a car in 5 minutes.........
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Yes it is a huge joke, it started with the Chase and went downhill from there.
 
Nothing but further Jimmie-proofing because Jimmie typically starts near the back but charges forward.
 
kymartin6 said:
Crazy stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be right with the world......... Truex should already have locked up the Championship......... and it's a very good possibility he might end up 4th......
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He did win the championship, the regular season championship, and that should have been celebrated as a BIG DEAL with a HUGE trophy. Instead it was barely mentioned. Big mistake. Make the regular season champion get one of the 4 spots in the playoff championship and you've made it mean even more.

As to stages, I like them. In this era of stretched out follow the leader, clean air racing, it encourages efforts to pass for stage points, and gives some options to adjust the cars for better results. We have far fewer cautions in this era due to mechanical failures. Restarts give opportunities for hope to some guys to make a charge.
 
I'm not so bothered by the Stage Racing as most here. Truex schooled everyone on just how meaningful those extra points can be. They all but assured him a direct ticket to Homestead. I don't think we are going to see Stage Racing disappear, but not counting those caution laps would do a lot to appease some.

Having to accept NASCAR's playoff system is a far bitter pill to swallow than a couple mid race cautions.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm not so bothered by the Stage Racing as most here. Truex schooled everyone on just how meaningful those extra points can be. They all but assured him a direct ticket to Homestead. I don't think we are going to see Stage Racing disappear, but not counting those caution laps would do a lot to appease some.

Having to accept NASCAR's playoff system is a far bitter pill to swallow than a couple mid race cautions.
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Might as well let them change shocks, do engine adjustments, hell replace body panels, during this stage nonsense....I wouldn't be surprised if this is the next big idea by Nascar. Stage racing is nothing more than manufactured excitement, that's the only time periods where the cars are "actually close" to each other.
 
I like it. It clearly successfully rewards drivers for consistently running up front.. in my opinion it's the best way to give the best drivers throughout the season their fair shot at getting further into the playoffs and running for a championship. Look at Truex, he has clearly been the class of the field all season, and because of that he basically just had to show up and not wreck for the last bunch of races to get into Homestead. While I'm not a big fan of knowing the champion three races early I like that his consistency is why he was guaranteed a shot at it early.

Although, I do think they need to stop counting the laps in between stages.. but I'm pretty sure they already said they won't be next season.

I don't think it's changed the racing much over all.. there's been a few good stage finishes but it's uncommon. I think the point of the stages is to reward drivers for consistently running up front...not to create excitement.
 
Dont like them. Maybe close the pits at the stage so we can see green flag stops again. Bunch up the field, "green flag back in the air" ( said with huge excitement) and do your pits stops. Or just dump them and toss debris back on the track just as one of the superstars is about to go a lap down, like in the past.
 
Conover said:
He did win the championship, the regular season championship, and that should have been celebrated as a BIG DEAL with a HUGE trophy. Instead it was barely mentioned. Big mistake. Make the regular season champion get one of the 4 spots in the playoff championship and you've made it mean even more.
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I agree the regular season championship should be a bigger deal but I don't think they should get a bye all the way to Homestead. Should be treated like two separate seasons sort of.
 
Bob said:
They made this decision and sent out Bob Backlund, Andre the Giant, The Iron Sheik, and Ric Flair to tell us how great it was going to be. They were all consulted. I bought it, because what else am I to do? It adds something and detracts something at the same time. I'm not going to bail on the sport because I am a mark. There are many like me.
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Well said.
 

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Speedbowl14 said:
I'd love to hear what the drivers think, uncensored....it's hard for me to see them liking it... @Allenbaba ?
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I think every driver I've spoken to likes it. Some have told me they think this current system is the best it's ever been. Rewards being fast all race, rewards winning, rewards being great all season.
 
Allenbaba said:
I think every driver I've spoken to likes it. Some have told me they think this current system is the best it's ever been. Rewards being fast all race, rewards winning, rewards being great all season.
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It makes sense to me that drivers would like it as you get a couple of scheduled 10 minute or so breaks per race to chill out and try and make your car better.
 
Allenbaba said:
I think every driver I've spoken to likes it. Some have told me they think this current system is the best it's ever been. Rewards being fast all race, rewards winning, rewards being great all season.
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I find it surprising given all the guys at the short track level are typically against gimmicks and segment races, in my experience at least.

Example...an asphalt sportsman race I went to this summer from the 1/5th of a mile (yes...a 1/5 mile) Bethel Motor Speedway. I went to the damn event and I'm still confused...

Summer of 69 STSS Sportsman Race Format

Sportsman drivers will draw for position upon arrival. Luck of the draw will determine starting positions for qualifying positions in 20-lap “semi” events. Tentative plans call for five (5) qualifiers transferring from each of the three (3) 20-lap semi races. (number of qualifiers could change depending on number of entries). All qualified cars from the semis will go to the redraw.

Starting positions 6 and 9, respectively, will be locked into Sunday’s feature event via qualifiers run on Saturday night.

Two 15-lap consolations and a 12-lap B-Main will set the remainder of the starting field. Two (2) Short Track Super Series provisional positions will be issued based on current series point standings.

The 69-lap feature will start a minimum of 24 cars. Caution laps will not count.

A “lucky dog” rule will be in place during the main for the highest-running car one lap down at the time of a caution. Through the halfway point restarts will be double-file with lapped cars starting from the rear.

At lap 25, a planned competition yellow will come out for five (5) minutes. The pit area will open and drivers will decide to stay out or pit. Drivers that stay out and gain track position will be stopped on the frontstretch for the duration of the five (5) minutes. Cars that pit will be frozen scored as in the order they went off; only if the cars come out after the five (5) minute rule will lose the frozen scored position and negated to the rear of the field.

After the halfway point lap 35, it will change format of restarts. Instead of normal single-file post-halfway, it will be lead lap cars on inside and lap cars will fill in the outside lane.

At lap 50, another planned competition yellow will be displayed for five (5) minutes. The same procedure will be in place as lap 25.

Race then resumes again until the checkered completion of lap 69.
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It's becoming the norm though...I miss straight-up races...
 
Speedbowl14 said:
I find it surprising given all the guys at the short track level are typically against gimmicks and segment races, in my experience at least.

Example...an asphalt sportsman race I went to this summer from the 1/5th of a mile (yes...a 1/5 mile) Bethel Motor Speedway. I went to the damn event and I'm still confused...



It's becoming the norm though...I miss straight-up races...
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straight up races? The short track races I go to have a number of heat races, and then the top finishers move to the A main. BUT they run the B main first so some who didn't do well (deathbed gimmick) can advance to the A main.
 
StandOnIt said:
straight up races? The short track races I go to have a number of heat races, and then the top finishers move to the A main. BUT they run the B main first so some who didn't do well (deathbed gimmick) can advance to the A main.
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Those are qualifying races, not scheduled breaks in the main event to manufacture closer competition. I can tell you're enough of an all around racing fan to know the difference. If I were to go to a Lucas Oil late model or USMTS modified or WOO race and they started pulling that BS with their feature events, I'd seek out other series that weren't doing it.

I stated last year that if NASCAR thinks they have to run heats and features or twin races due to short attention spans, I don't think it's necessary but would accept it as a legitimate format choice.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
I find it surprising given all the guys at the short track level are typically against gimmicks and segment races, in my experience at least.
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The drivers don't consider it a gimmick. They consider it a rewards system. The most common complaint I've heard from drivers before this season is that they could race hard all race, be in the top 5 all race, decide to go for the win at the end (because that's what they're there to do) wreck in the process, and then leave with 5, 6, 7 points or whatever. Many didn't see a balanced risk/reward. "We had a good points day" was a phrase for a reason. I'll always remember Kurt telling me that the old system penalized wrecking way too much. To go from 35 points to 5 points in the last lap of the race where you were one of the best cars was way too harsh a consequence for trying to win. At least stage racing allows a great car to bank 15-20 points (and a playoff point or two) so that being aggressive at the very end and coming up short wasn't a TOTAL disaster of a day.
 
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