Should Nascar give Kyle Larson a waiver?

AndyMarquisLive said:
Now lets see if other drivers get it in the future for similar circumstances.
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If drivers get dispensation from their teams to attempt another race for a weekend, I say why not? When the playoff format was first implemented there was zero significance to regular season points and you only got playoff points for the first round from regular season race wins. The rule to run every race was more to ensure that you couldn’t have a part-time team like Trevor Bayne and the Wood Brothers win a race, run half the schedule, and be in the playoffs. If you believe in the current significance of the regular season championship and playoff points, there’s already an implicit penalty for missing races.

That said, the number of other potential events this could realistically apply to in the future is essentially zero. And they aren’t going to let guys stay at home to go to Hornets games or play Flight Simulator.
 
Daytripper said:
Was there ever any doubt he would get one?
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Sawyer said there were different opinions from different people in the decision-making process. Bianchi had previously alluded to some higher-ups getting chapped ass from the fact that HMS prioritized the 500 after initially indicating it would be Charlotte.
 
Bombshell, shocking news that the waiver was granted. Most anticipated racing news story of the year where EVERYBODY knew exactly what would be said. But kuddos to NASCAR for creating the week long drama and attention.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Sawyer said there were different opinions from different people in the decision-making process. Bianchi had previously alluded to some higher-ups getting chapped ass from the fact that HMS prioritized the 500 after initially indicating it would be Charlotte.
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This was a precedent-setting decision and nowhere near as cut and dry as Reddit and X like to pretend it is - especially since the rationale for it being "cut and dry" on social media was:

  1. You have to grant a waiver because he's Kyle Larson.
  2. This was great publicity for NASCAR.
  3. The effort was backed by Hendrick Motorsports, which gives it more credibility.

There were countless people on X actually making the argument that NASCAR should ONLY give Larson a waiver for attempting the double, and nobody else, "because Kyle Larson is the greatest racecar driver in the world."

None of these three things should play any role in the decision. NONE.

As you pointed out in your other post, there is already a penalty for missing races. If the Coca-Cola 600 had run the distance, Kyle Larson would've missed out on the opportunity to gain playoff points in three stages and at the end of the race. That's already a huge penalty.

FLRacingFan said:
The rule to run every race was more to ensure that you couldn’t have a part-time team like Trevor Bayne and the Wood Brothers win a race, run half the schedule, and be in the playoffs.
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But NASCAR wants someone like Corey Lajoie or Justin Haley to go win Daytona and make the playoffs even though they'd get bounced out in the first round. They don't even have a requirement about finishing in the top-30 in points anymore. That's the whole entire problem with this waiver stuff.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The rule to run every race was more to ensure that you couldn’t have a part-time team like Trevor Bayne and the Wood Brothers win a race, run half the schedule, and be in the playoffs.
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The other side of the coin is to stop full time teams from skipping races for financial reasons once they're locked in, and ensure that the stars of the sport show up.

I'm actually pretty impressed with the way NASCAR handled the press conference (the waiver was never, ever in doubt). They re typically public relations asshats who talk themselves into even hotter waters. But this really tracked for me: "Sawyer says one reason for waiver is to make sure if fans buy a ticket, they know they'll see the driver in the race. Ultimately, he got to Charlotte. Was ready to go. Would have raced 151 laps or so there. They gave the best effort to do what we needed to do for our fans in Charlotte." If that's the spirit of the waiver, then you can't really debate the outcome. I think they did a good job making a really tricky situation less tricky, and keeping the door shut for other people to try and now game the system. It's rather surprising from them, actually.
 
Greg said:
If Nascar issues a very heinous (pronounced HY•EE•NUH•US) ruling on the Larson waiver, the urgency of the matter will create an even greater demand for those double barrel AR15s.
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I notice you didn't specify exactly which waiver ruling, issued or denied, would be considered hyenamus.
 
Waver

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Allenbaba said:
The other side of the coin is to stop full time teams from skipping races for financial reasons once they're locked in, and ensure that the stars of the sport show up.

I'm actually pretty impressed with the way NASCAR handled the press conference (the waiver was never, ever in doubt). They re typically public relations asshats who talk themselves into even hotter waters. But this really tracked for me: "Sawyer says one reason for waiver is to make sure if fans buy a ticket, they know they'll see the driver in the race. Ultimately, he got to Charlotte. Was ready to go. Would have raced 151 laps or so there. They gave the best effort to do what we needed to do for our fans in Charlotte." If that's the spirit of the waiver, then you can't really debate the outcome. I think they did a good job making a really tricky situation less tricky, and keeping the door shut for other people to try and now game the system. It's rather surprising from them, actually.
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This. They made an honest attempt to be in Charlotte minus just packing it up at Indy throwing away a couple million dollars or more. This attempt by Larson was a worldwide sports story, if NASCAR stuffed his season in the garbage because of this it would have been the worst PR bungle since New Coke.
 
C'mon, Elton, is there anyone who follows NASCAR or IndyCar wasn't aware of Larson's attempt, and that the possibility existed he wouldn't make it from Indy to Charlotte?

News flash - sometimes stick and ball teams who are locked into the playoffs will use their star players little or even not at all. I say this as a warning for those buying a ticket for the last game of the year.
 
Allenbaba said:
The other side of the coin is to stop full time teams from skipping races for financial reasons once they're locked in, and ensure that the stars of the sport show up.
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Chartered teams have to enter every event now anyways, which was also not a factor when the rule and format were first implemented. And again, every driver who considers themselves a viable championship contender - which I’m sure most of them do - aren’t going to voluntarily forfeit potential regular season standing and playoff points. I think the rule is mostly obsolete at the Cup level at this point. And I don’t think there are (m)any other real potential scenarios similar to this. But if there are - maybe Le Mans - they should be allowed to do so.
 
Shouldn't be a problem if Nascar drivers want to compete in premier racing events outside of the series. They take the hit in driver and owner points to do it and potential loss of income. But there are already some owners who don't allow their drivers to race in other series even if there is no conflict with their Nascar schedule so I'd guess it should be up to the teams and not Nascar when all is said and done.
In this case with Larson, he didn't plan on missing out on the 600, mother nature was the culprit.
When the gerbils of NBC were pitching their stick n ball playoff scheme to Brian the inept one, nobody thought of the double or much else for that matter.
 
The first part of the win and you are in playoff nonsense. Keeps drivers from skipping races. Why don't they take it out?
The 2nd fan part. In our day and time it shouldn't be hard to find out if a driver isn't going to compete or where they are going to race if they aren't going to attend the Nascar race.

 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Ironically, the only driver in the Cup field who would willingly miss Cup races to compete elsewhere just got a waiver for doing just that.
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How do you know if any of the other drivers would or would not miss a Cup field to compete elsewhere? If they had the same financial backing and support that Larson did, you may be surprised what they might have done.
 
Nitro Dude said:
How do you know if any of the other drivers would or would not miss a Cup field to compete elsewhere? If they had the same financial backing and support that Larson did, you may be surprised what they might have done.
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Pretty much already has been proven. Kyle Busch said he wanted to do the double when he was driving for Toyota. No support though. Kyle said it again now racing for Childress and he has the green light. He has that much support at least.
But nobody that drives in Nascar has had the support that Rick Hendrick gave to Larson to do the double. The car, the team, the transportation were all on Hendrick.
 
StandOnIt said:
Pretty much already has been proven. Kyle Busch said he wanted to do the double when he was driving for Toyota. No support though. Kyle said it again now racing for Childress and he has the green light. He has that much support at least.
But nobody that drives in Nascar has had the support that Rick Hendrick gave to Larson to do the double. The car, the team, the transportation were all on Hendrick.
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Kyle Busch was at the top of the list who I was thinking about. His brother enjoyed racing in the Indy 500.
 
Glad that’s over, but now what we supposed to talk about? Perhaps another driver can do something else causing them to miss a race and make us question whether they deserve a waiver or not. My reason would be that my cat was snoozing on my lap and didn’t want to get up.
 
Brentford said:
Glad that’s over, but now what we supposed to talk about? Perhaps another driver can do something else causing them to miss a race and make us question whether they deserve a waiver or not. My reason would be that my cat was snoozing on my lap and didn’t want to get up.
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History shows it's easier to get a waiver from NASCAR than a snoozing cat out of your lap. Those things are completely boneless.
 
Brentford said:
Glad that’s over, but now what we supposed to talk about? Perhaps another driver can do something else causing them to miss a race and make us question whether they deserve a waiver or not. My reason would be that my cat was snoozing on my lap and didn’t want to get up.
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Well there’s always Jr and charter talk. On the latest DJD he said he and Kelly are still having conversations about getting one. The hitch is cash and a desire for Jr & Kelly to actually be running the team and making a difference, not just be figureheads.
 

I'm with Harv. The win gets you in. This is the points system that is run....regardless of letting fans, sponsors, and the sport down ( which we all know was fiction to begin with. It was bad ass Larson attempted the Double).
 
NASCAR just needs to decide what it REALLY wants, the exposure and buzz caused by their teams and or drivers competing elsewhere, or to lock everyone down the way series like F1 has done and make it virtually impossible for drivers to compete elsewhere. Pick one and stick with it and stop being hypocrites like they are on so many other issues.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:

I'm with Harv. The win gets you in. This is the points system that is run....regardless of letting fans, sponsors, and the sport down ( which we all know was fiction to begin with. It was bad ass Larson attempted the Double).
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It seems like several different ideas were mentioned.
I think @Charlie Spencer suggested making it into the playoffs by being in the top 16 in points and increasing the points awarded for winning a race.

I think that makes the most sense, and it would provide the incentive to be good at points racing as well as winning races.
I think that system would ensure that the drivers know they need to make every start. There will be a few among the best who could still afford to miss a race and make the playoffs, but I don't think you would see them doing it as a choice, and even then, they would still be taking a big risk.

I could see a team manipulating things to skip the 26th race if they are already in but too far back to have the most points for the regular season. I think that is unlikely given the sponsorship commitments, etc., but if it did happen, it would be easy to recognize and penalize for acting in bad faith.
 
Greg said:
It seems like several different ideas were mentioned.
I think @Charlie Spencer suggested making it into the playoffs by being in the top 16 in points and increasing the points awarded for winning a race.

I think that makes the most sense, and it would provide the incentive to be good at points racing as well as winning races.
I think that system would ensure that the drivers know they need to make every start. There will be a few among the best who could still afford to miss a race and make the playoffs, but I don't think you would see them doing it as a choice, and even then, they would still be taking a big risk.

I could see a team manipulating things to skip the 26th race if they are already in but too far back to have the most points for the regular season. I think that is unlikely given the sponsorship commitments, etc., but if it did happen, it would be easy to recognize and penalize for acting in bad faith.
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I think one of the things getting glossed over is that it ended up that the DRIVER missed the race. That TEAM was ALWAYS going to be there and did compete. There has never been any incentive for a team to miss a race. The downsides outweigh the upsides by a large margin.
 
StandOnIt said:
Shouldn't be a problem if Nascar drivers want to compete in premier racing events outside of the series. They take the hit in driver and owner points to do it and potential loss of income. But there are already some owners who don't allow their drivers to race in other series even if there is no conflict with their Nascar schedule so I'd guess it should be up to the teams and not Nascar when all is said and done.
In this case with Larson, he didn't plan on missing out on the 600, mother nature was the culprit.
When the gerbils of NBC were pitching their stick n ball playoff scheme to Brian the inept one, nobody thought of the double or much else for that matter.
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In general I agree. I think what NASCAR is more focused on is some type of start up event/series that for whatever reason would draw Cup drivers away. Think back to the "Prelude to the Dream" where we had 10 - 15 Cup drivers participating. I will not be convinced otherwise that NASCAR put a stop to that event by giving Tony the Truck race at Eldora. The WOO's until recently was very strict on what races outside the series the drivers running for a championship could compete. This makes sense as drivers racing elsewhere would in a sense water down the controlling series.
Now I am not specifically spot on with my examples as they are not referencing where a driver is choosing another series head to head, but it could develop that way and that's what I think NASCAR wants to prevent.
 
DIDIT said:
In general I agree. I think what NASCAR is more focused on is some type of start up event/series that for whatever reason would draw Cup drivers away. Think back to the "Prelude to the Dream" where we had 10 - 15 Cup drivers participating. I will not be convinced otherwise that NASCAR put a stop to that event by giving Tony the Truck race at Eldora. The WOO's until recently was very strict on what races outside the series the drivers running for a championship could compete. This makes sense as drivers racing elsewhere would in a sense water down the controlling series.
Now I am not specifically spot on with my examples as they are not referencing where a driver is choosing another series head to head, but it could develop that way and that's what I think NASCAR wants to prevent.
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Well, Like I said, NASCAR needs to pick a lane and be upfront about it. If they want to discourage or prevent certain activities, just OWN it instead of getting what they want by BS backdoor methods, like bribing a track owner with an event to kill off another event, if your version of events is true.

By the way DIDIT, I just noticed your Etch A Sketch tag line. My uncle was Ohio Art's advertising director for most of the 80's and of course Etch A Sketch was their flagship product. Later he got to work with Michael Jordan on the indoor basketball game set and on product placement with the movie Michael J. Fox did with Joan Jett. A 13 year old me even got into the act by being used as a photo model for some promotional materials for their Duke's Of Hazzard plastic guitar. Later my uncle went on to Zippo, where he was peripherally involved with their NASCAR sponsorship on the Sabco #40, Jimmy Spencer's Busch car and their sponsorship at Watkins Glen. If you ever get to Bradford PA, check out the Zippo Museum. My uncle was heavily involved with making that what it is.
 
DIDIT said:
In general I agree. I think what NASCAR is more focused on is some type of start up event/series that for whatever reason would draw Cup drivers away. Think back to the "Prelude to the Dream" where we had 10 - 15 Cup drivers participating. I will not be convinced otherwise that NASCAR put a stop to that event by giving Tony the Truck race at Eldora. The WOO's until recently was very strict on what races outside the series the drivers running for a championship could compete. This makes sense as drivers racing elsewhere would in a sense water down the controlling series.
Now I am not specifically spot on with my examples as they are not referencing where a driver is choosing another series head to head, but it could develop that way and that's what I think NASCAR wants to prevent.
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I'm not going to argue about the Prelude to a Dream. Myself, I think it became more of a hassle than it was worth to everybody. It's similar to the recent demise of the SRX series. Lots of torn up stuff and no wreck it you buy it in place.

The contrast between the High Limit racing series and the Nascar playoffs.

High Limit has two drivers Courtney and Sweet running neck and neck right now for the top spot.

Nascar has 8 drivers who will be in the playoffs at present? What is lost? Nobody really knows who is the leader for the whole season. A driver with three or more wins, has pretty much the same chances of winning the championship as a driver with one or two wins. We have to listen to a whole half season of gerbilising that means virtually nothing until the last race. Spend hours watching a driver(s) that doesn't have a chance in hell of making it out of the next round even if he does make the "cutoff" in the present round.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, Like I said, NASCAR needs to pick a lane and be upfront about it. If they want to discourage or prevent certain activities, just OWN it instead of getting what they want by BS backdoor methods, like bribing a track owner with an event to kill off another event, if your version of events is true.

By the way DIDIT, I just noticed your Etch A Sketch tag line. My uncle was Ohio Art's advertising director for most of the 80's and of course Etch A Sketch was their flagship product. Later he got to work with Michael Jordan on the indoor basketball game set and on product placement with the movie Michael J. Fox did with Joan Jett. A 13 year old me even got into the act by being used as a photo model for some promotional materials for their Duke's Of Hazzard plastic guitar. Later my uncle went on to Zippo, where he was peripherally involved with their NASCAR sponsorship on the Sabco #40, Jimmy Spencer's Busch car and their sponsorship at Watkins Glen. If you ever get to Bradford PA, check out the Zippo Museum. My uncle was heavily involved with making that what it is.
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That’s some pretty cool stuff your uncle was involved in.
My Etch A Sketch has served me well over the years, but keeping its software current is a challenge! :)
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm not going to argue about the Prelude to a Dream. Myself, I think it became more of a hassle than it was worth to everybody. It's similar to the recent demise of the SRX series. Lots of torn up stuff and no wreck it you buy it in place.

The contrast between the High Limit racing series and the Nascar playoffs.

High Limit has two drivers Courtney and Sweet running neck and neck right now for the top spot.

Nascar has 8 drivers who will be in the playoffs at present? What is lost? Nobody really knows who is the leader for the whole season. A driver with three or more wins, has pretty much the same chances of winning the championship as a driver with one or two wins. We have to listen to a whole half season of gerbilising that means virtually nothing until the last race. Spend hours watching a driver(s) that doesn't have a chance in hell of making it out of the next round even if he does make the "cutoff" in the present round.
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Oh man, I really wanted to get into a Prelude debate.
I was more focusing on NASCAR not wanting a group of their drivers racing in a series directly competing with them vs the win and your in debate. If we have to endure a playoff in NASCAR, I really don’t have an issue with the win and your in. Maybe someday we will get to experience a true Cinderella story champion.
 
Formerjackman said:
I think one of the things getting glossed over is that it ended up that the DRIVER missed the race. That TEAM was ALWAYS going to be there and did compete. There has never been any incentive for a team to miss a race. The downsides outweigh the upsides by a large margin.
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And I'm back to awarding only owner / team points and abandoning driver points entirely.
 
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