StandOnIt
Farm Truck
Terrible wording on the header, accidental or on purpose IMO.
I wouldn’t mind some transparency.Finally, someone with some common sense.
Whoever woulda thought there would be so much unsubstantiated information posted as argument for 23XI and FRM holding out on signing the NASCAR agreement. These are smart business people and that is not to imply teams such as RCR, JGR, HMR, or any of the others are not.
Sometimes ownership must stand on what they believe and until, or unless, NASCAR or the holdouts state what agreement(s) are being sought, everything else is speculation.
There is one determining factor in those most anxious to discredit 23XI intentions seems to be more anti-Hamlin rhetoric that reflects their dislike of the driver of the #11.
This will all shake out and an uneducated guess is until one of the involved parties makes a statement addressing the issue(s) we don't know anything about it although there is little doubt conjecture will continue to reign supreme among the pontificators as that is what keeps this forum alive.
There is plenty of information out there and more every day. Sticking one's head in the sand might work for some, but this thread isn't going anywhere.
Go check Jordan's record as an NBA owner and get back to meMJ comes from the NBA and its business practices. The NBA as a league is owned by the teams. Imagine how NASCAR would be if charters were the basis of series ownership. It could get complicated with all the different series, but imagine…
That's well known, I'm talking about the business model of the teams owning the series. It's worked pretty well for the NFL too.Go check Jordan's record as an NBA owner and get back to me
Or I can save you the time...HE SUCKED
Just because he was the GOAT player, means absolutely nothing when it come to ownership
They are fighting over money/control is the simple answer. Everybody got a raise, but a couple of teams want more. So far those two teams haven't specifically named what their hang ups are, but the article just posted at post #125 names a few that could possibly be the issue(s).Prove me wrong.
Show me the, "plenty of information out there and more every day," source(s) that represent NASCAR or 23XI and FRM that specify the reason(s) for either of them to not sign their charters by either of those organizations and they made made public. I'm not talking about opinion or speculation but from a source authorized by either NASCAR, 23XI or FRM to speak on their behalf.
So you think Jordan's gonna make that happen?That's well known, I'm talking about the business model of the teams owning the series. It's worked pretty well for the NFL too.
This time, probably not. But the teams have 7 years to plan.So you think Jordan gonna make that happen?
That could be a change to the system they had that said no major changes until the next year and changes had to be brought up during the off season to give the teams time to make the changes. That hamstringed Nascar's ability to make running changes to the cars I know. Of course teams wouldn't mostly be for anything like that because of the possible added expenses to make the change.Well at least this time he posted a Cup photo rather than Xfinity
If he has his own racing series sure.So you think Jordan's gonna make that happen?
I hate to say it but Dennis did a pretty good job of keeping his mouth shut on his podcast this weekIf 23XI wants any hope of winning the PR battle, MJ needs to tell Denny to shut up.
Well, Denny said Nascar is mean, so..Prove me wrong.
Show me the, "plenty of information out there and more every day," source(s) that represent NASCAR or 23XI and FRM that specify the reason(s) for either of them to not sign their charters by either of those organizations and they made made public. I'm not talking about opinion or speculation but from a source authorized by either NASCAR, 23XI or FRM to speak on their behalf.
I read intellectual property to mean permanent charters.Prove me wrong.
Show me the, "plenty of information out there and more every day," source(s) that represent NASCAR or 23XI and FRM that specify the reason(s) for either of them to not sign their charters by either of those organizations and they made made public. I'm not talking about opinion or speculation but from a source authorized by either NASCAR, 23XI or FRM to speak on their behalf.
This whole thing has been fascinating to me. So many people have heard so much noise. It's been fun to talk about! I have absolutely no facts or smoking guns whatsoever, but here's what I've gathered to be the most "smoke" from the six billion different stories I've heard:
1) many teams were too scared not to sign it (mostly referring to the smaller/mid size types.
2) at least one team, maybe even more have some kind of side deal with NASCAR (wonder who that could be if true, lol). There have been several meetings between NASCAR and individual teams, so it's not inconceivable a team or two or three would have more reason to sign a deal than others. At face value, the terms of the agreement really don't make sense for a big team. Unless.....
And finally, 3) there is absolutely legal ground for 23XI & FRM to stand on if NASCAR just flips them off and takes their charters. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise...MJ (et al) and Jenkins are two of the most savvy, successful business people/groups in the history of NASCAR...you don't think they know what they're doing? And NASCAR seems to trip over their own dicks every chance they get...all of a sudden this is now different, and they are now suddenly great decision makers? This could/would be a bloody war, and despite what's been said here, NASCAR has much more to lose than MJ/Denny/Jenkins. They are setting up for a fight where, if 23XI/FRM wins, NASCAR might legitimately lose control of the sport (this would be Supreme Court type litigation). And if NASCAR wins, MJ/Jenkins might lose one of the zeros in their many zeros worth of rediculous wealth, assuming there's not some other avenue of racing for teams to start exploring... (hmmmm.)
This whole thing is not a David vs Goliath type deal...it's set up to be a clash of the titans. Or, it'll fizzle out into nothing. Either or!
The thing is if anyone has FU money and ride this thing out for all it's worth it's MJ.
Front Row on the other hand has me baffled. Only thing I can figure is they're too far in the hole with what they've agreed to pay SHR that the dollars don't work with the deal on the table.
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What do the teams want?Prove me wrong.
Show me the, "plenty of information out there and more every day," source(s) that represent NASCAR or 23XI and FRM that specify the reason(s) for either of them to not sign their charters by either of those organizations and they made made public. I'm not talking about opinion or speculation but from a source authorized by either NASCAR, 23XI or FRM to speak on their behalf.
They are fighting over money/control is the simple answer.
^^^ Source, please. ^^^Everybody got a raise, but a couple of teams want more.
So far those two teams haven't specifically named what their hang ups are, but the article just posted at post #125 names a few that could possibly be the issue(s).
Yes! there is that.Well, Denny said Nascar is mean, so..
This pretty much covers what they are arguing over. They did get a raise in revenue. They are not getting permanent charters.I suspect this isn’t a cash grab effort from Denny and MJ. Or Frontrow. Yep it’s my oure speculation but I’m convinced their goal is to balance this odd and incestuous business so it grows and is more viable in the long run. Might they bring them more money? Sure. But we all know the current business model is a mess. So I’m hoping their effort here wrings out some improvements. MJ seems in it for the long run.
It's called a private family owned business. They bought out stakeholders years ago. They have complete control.While the France family has been instrumental in building NASCAR imho their model is a dinosaur that now holds the entire sport back.
Nobody forced them to get into the Nascar racing business.Did teams have to buy charters when they were first introduced in 2016 or were they “gifted” to teams that were in the series.
If those teams didn’t have to pay for them and 23XI has come in and been a major contributor over the past 3 years and has paid 40?50+? million for 2 charters while trying to pay another 20+ for a charter. I’d be upset about it too. Also makes it a lot easier for the teams that were given charters to just accept whatever nascar gives them.
Because other racing leagues in this country do soo much better. The sport falls apart otherwise.While the France family has been instrumental in building NASCAR imho their model is a dinosaur that now holds the entire sport back.
I'm not a France fan but I trust them and their vision far more than Denny Hamlin. Denny is one of those guys who thinks because he can talk it makes him smart. That is rarely the case.I get it. There are France fans. There are people who can’t see a change as good or needed. Keeping it like it is the only way to survive. The France family owns it end of story.
Opinions differ. But if we all agreed how boring would this place be?
Guilty!! That's me! Lol...There is one determining factor in those most anxious to discredit 23XI intentions seems to be more anti-Hamlin rhetoric that reflects their dislike of the driver of the #11.
Isn't that the picture all the nefarious information was hidden behind in the movie Enemy of the State? Will Smith and Gene Hackman....good movie.View attachment 80310 MJ's 8 million$, 82' Catch 23 toy...
You are sitting right on the crux of the matter.“Predatory business practices…”
I'm not a France fan but I trust them and their vision far more than Denny Hamlin. Denny is one of those guys who thinks because he can talk it makes him smart. That is rarely the case.
Hamlin is a bit player in this disagreement.
I will guess that he’s been muzzled.